Market place ETHICS (not rules) and the lack of!!

I haven't ever backed out on a purchase or layaway. I try to make sure I am 100% before saying I will buy something.

However... I do ask questions about items now and then--if it isn't clear if something is brown or black, or what size... And I'll usually answer all PMs, but not always. If I get an answer and it isn't what I'm looking for, am I supposed to write back all the time??? I never thought so. I don't know about others, but my time and my in-box can be very busy. I figured it was sometimes best not to bother someone more if the item is not right for me and I haven't said I wanted to buy it--only asked an important question. I'm clear in my original PM that I'm just asking a question, not saying I'm definitely going to buy the item.

 

I've never backed out of a transaction halfway before.

I have inquired about some items, sure, but I try not to make people think that that immediately means I'm going to buy it. I mean, you must be allowed to ask questions without being committed to buy something.
I've also sometimes asked people to hold some items for me a week or two, but then I always specify that it's because I do not have the money, but I'll try to get a hold of it. If I can't manage, I PM the person the moment I know I can't buy it, or if I can manage, but don't have all the money right away, I pay about $50 as a non-refundable deposit to let the person know that I am serious.

If a person had inquired about the item as if (s)he really wanted it, and asked me to blush it and hold it, and then cancelled the payment etc., I wouldn't hesitate to leave flaky feedback, because really, in that case it wasn't a possible transaction, it was a transaction halfway completed. You do not ask someone to blush the item if you're not certain you'll buy it, and if you ask someone to put something on hold for you, you better be sure to mention that it is because you're not sure if you actually can commit to buy it yet.

 

As a seller, I've been fortunate to never experience any problems with buyers I've worked with. I've been PMed with questions, reply as soon as I can, they keep good communication and all is well.
I've had one person back out on a transaction, but she did it very tastefully. When she initially PMed me about a doll's head, she asked a few questions (Shipping costs, a pic of the damage from another angle) and made it clear that while she was interested, she'd have to double-check her doll funds to make sure she could buy it. I answered her questions just the same. The next day she replied saying that she could not in good conscience spend the money on a doll just then. I completely understand that, and I'm glad she stayed friendly and kept me informed.

As a buyer, however, I'm constantly annoyed by the failure in communication. In the past few months I've sent dozens of PMs to sellers about things like wigs, clothes, eyes. Sometimes immediately after they bump up their sales posts. Out of dozens, I've had one seller PM me... two weeks later, asking if I was still interested. I replied saying yes and asked for their PP info, and... nothing. No further contact.

What is wrong with these people? Do they not want their money? I make it clear when I'm shopping for doll things that I have the money on hand now and can pay right away.

One happening that just happened here recently and still has me riled up is that I PMed a doll owner asking for a couple more pictures because there were none of the doll unclothed or from different angles. I also asked a couple questions about known company flaws, and asked for a shipping quote. I said that I had the cash on hand and could pay right away. The seller replied saying that they'd gotten a message before mine, but gave me a shipping quote anyway and told me she'd let me know what the other person decided.
She didn't.
I sent several more PMs a few days apart, asking what was going on, because after I'd initially PMed saying I had the cash on hand and wanted the complete doll, the seller bumped the sales thread for interest.
I never got a reply, but when I went back to get a link to the sales thread to show a friend the doll I was looking at, I found that the thread had been continually bumped for interest and then the seller had posted saying they were splitting the doll and to stop PMing them wanting to buy the whole thing. I never received another PM to let me know the situation and I found her posting that to the sales thread to be incredibly passive-aggressive.

People who sell doll items should treat it as they would a business. For all intents and purposes, that's what it is. I've been selling on Etsy and various other venues for a few years and I can't fathom why someone who is selling items (Pre-made, ready-to-sell items no less) would be so irresponsible and unreliable in business transactions and communications.

 

For me, it's basic buyer courtesy to send the seller a brief acknowledgment that I received the answer to my question. Given how often people claim that they never received PMs, how is the seller to know that the message reached its destination unless I acknowledge it? If the seller takes the time to answer my question, I always believe I can spare 30 seconds to type "Thank you, but I see that this item isn't quite what I was looking for."

 

Makes sense. Although I more often get into an endless loop with "Thanks for the info" "Thanks for the reply" Thanks for replying to the reply" etc. I guess most of the people I've dealt with have been TOO good at communication!

 

Sometimes I feel bad when I am interested in clothes. I have two dolls which are a bit tricky due to their bodies, and I try to check with the sellers beforehands whether something fits or not. But I never say I will buy anything. That would be just rude.

Until now, I had only positive contacts on the marketplace here. Even as I commissioned a suit and the pants did not fit my boy's big butt, the solution was extremely pleasant.

But perhaps I was only lucky until now. I do not buy that many items. So - knock on wood - no bad experiences until now.

 

Well, when I commit to buying an item I absolutely never want to back out of it. I'd feel very bad for doing it but Ive also had this happen to me once. I was selling a doll, a lady wanted it but she didn't have the money yet for the deposit. I was nice enough to hold it for a couple of weeks than suddenly she told me she could not buy the doll. It upset me because I felt betrayed in a way if that made sense I trusted her and she seemed like she was a permanent buyer I was also upset because I had to find a different buyer, it wasn't hard to, it was a limited edition doll but just the fact that I had to do all this because of her.

I do understand things happen. I mean you could have the money than something turns up and you just can't purchase the item anymore. Its life. But If that were to happen I would think you should tell the seller ASAP, don't ever leave them hanging or trying to avoid them because of guilt. But there's also the dishonest people. Best thing to do to avoid this is just set down some rules when selling.

 

I had very sad experiences on other fields. That was ebay and in the modelhorse world.

I made boots for tiny rider dolls and offered them for sale. There were one or two occasions when people heavily inquired about these boots. There are no fit issues, as they only have standard feet. I admit I wanted some money for my efforts. Lots of communication, lots of time. In one case, I already started to actually sew. And then - too expensive for them. Just like that. I was really sad and upset.

This is one reason I do not want to offer anything again I made myself for sale. I put my heart in these items, do not want to simply give it away. Of course its a matter of the market.

But in these cases I had the impression people tried to get a lower price. And one was very upset that I did not give in.

So I very questioned much ethics there as well. I mean, you have to develop the item, you have to think about material, buy it. And then make it. But some people obviously just don't see this.

 

Of course asking questions is not the same thing as asking for an item to be put on hold--though there are polite and rude ways of asking questions, and there are questions that seem designed only to show the buyer's power over the seller. I'm remembering a time when a "buyer" demanded that I take multiple specific pictures of a $10 shirt on several dolls . . . then complained because it took me an hour to reply with those pictures . . . and finally told me that s/he had never intended to buy the shirt, but just wanted to make sure I really owned it, because no one on the Internet can be trusted.

I think "on hold" may mean different things to different people, though. For me, both as a buyer and as a seller, "on hold" involves a serious commitment on both sides--not the situation you're describing, where only the seller is tied down. It seems unfair to me if a buyer can make the seller take an item out of the Marketplace (and thus lose the possibility of selling it to someone else who has the money in hand) when the buyer doesn't have any real commitment to finishing the purchase. Sellers on DoA aren't large department stores with multiples of each item in their inventory; they're individual collectors just like me, and I don't feel right about wasting their time.

 

1.If i had to back out on a transaction, i'd just own up to and just say something like "I'm sorry, for personal reasons i cannot complete this purchase, i understand if you have to leave negative or flakey feedback and i hope i haven't caused you unnecessary strife." (i never understood why that is so difficult for people) If i was doubting whether or not this is what i wanted AFTER i agreed to the purchase i'd just follow through, if it doesn't work out i can resell it. My being impulsive and not thinking it through is my own fault and it's not fair to mess with other people who might have planned important financial things around the sell of an item or to waste their time.

2. I completely agree, far too often i feel like excuses are thrown in to gain pity and get out of punishment. That's why the above "personal reasons" i feel is honestly sufficient, it covers that there is an important reason for the termination of the sale, without needing to get into a bunch of reasons that aren't necessary to add. It also prevents the whole protected by pity issue.
Admittedly though, if i got this response from someone i was selling to i'd still leave flakey feedback at least, but i don't expect not to get the same or worse back.

3. I also agree, i might inquire about more than one item BEFORE making a deal with someone, if i i can't afford both, i'll pick whatever i like more or what will be harder to get another chance at and buy that one. I would never try and buy another item from someone i'd just backed out on. i wouldn't even be surprised if they outright refused to do business with me after something like that.

Now in the past i have asked people to hold items for me, but only when i was certain i could get the money together before it became too drawn out.

 

I very recently had a person contact me regarding my SD ResinSoul Lian listed in the mp. The person wanted to trade. I specifically said NO TRADES. I am gearing my collection towards only cat/cat anthromorphic dolls and very specific others that are hybrids and very limited heads of certain famous real life people. So I am selling the ones that are just taking up room. I don't need another odd one that was not in my planned group though I have enough decency to at least LOOK at the offered doll. Before I could answer they pm'd me again with the comment that pretty much I had raised the cost of the doll so they did not want her anyway as the doll is for sale on the website new for $40 less than I am asking.

That was rude.

I didn't even have to consider their trade but at least gave it some thought. I thanked them for the information though I did inform them that I was including the faceup, wig, a fullset of clothes including boots, eyes, and the hard to get RS carrying case plus FREE shipping! (The only thing the new doll would come with is eyes.) Over $420 I had spent on this, my very first bjd, for my asking price of about half that!

I mean, come one...I did not ask for trades and certainly did not expect to actually be attacked like that. I have to say, though, that was my first and so far only bad experience with the mp.

 

Iv had a few erking moments on the MP.

A peeve of mine, and something I find rather rude is blatently ignoring someone interested in buying your item. If you are not interested in selling to said person a reply of "Thank you for your interest, but I will have to decline doing buisness with you." Or whatever, would be nice. Or some other reason you are ignoring someone offering to give you money for what you are selling.

Another thing I have had happen was, I was selling a doll, and at the time I did not know the body of the doll was from another company. The person I purchased the doll from didnt tell me and I am not knowledgable in all of the different bodies out there. This person PMed me and was very rude about how they went about telling me how wrong I was about what body I was selling, and when I thanked them for the information and informed them that perhaps next time they shouldnt be so rude, I was snapped at and they wished me to have bad transactions so I could "earn" bad feedback.

I think if you have nothing to do with what someone is selling, you have no right to be rude to someone else.

I think you if you are doing buisness on the market place, you should be polite whether you are selling or buying.

 

^I get that a lot, specifically stating which dolls i'd be interested in for a trade and then people coming around offering completely different dolls. It's slightly annoying, but I understand the "never hurts to ask" mentality (if I hadn't asked I wouldn't have my dream doll on layaway right now!). Telling you that your price is too high is indeed just rude and I'm pretty sure it's against the rules too, at least when you do it in sales threads.

I thankfully haven't had many bad experiences lately, just someone who approached me if I would pleasepleaseplease split my doll even though my sales post said I wouldn't, because she had just sold her own doll of the same mold and wanted him back but already had a body on the way so if I could please just sell her the head. The doll had been up for a while, so I agreed, gave her the price I wanted and told her that I'd be willing to even give her layaway since she stated that she was on a budget. She declined, saying that she couldn't afford what I was asking. I told her that if the doll wouldn't sell in a few weeks I might be willing to drop the price for her, but not quite yet since I needed money myself. Then someone bought the body, so I had some more room financially, and I contacted her saying I'd be willing to sell her the head (with quality artist faceup, mind you) at a lower price now and asked how much she was willing to spend. She gave me an offer of half the original asking price, including international shipping, which made up close to a 3rd of the entire offered price. So I politely declined. I know she was only trying and this isn't exactly a question of etchics or even deliberate rudeness, but still it did feel kind of rude.

 

This so much! Often I've found a doll I'm so excited about and received no reply, not even a "no thanks" or "he's sold." All I ask is a little info about layaway and shipping! I guess if people don't want to deal with you the new norm is to just ignore you until you have to give up

 

WOW! I have had that happen to me too! I pm'd a person on mp several times regarding some hands and feet they had listed. I really really really wanted them. And I was going to pay the full asking price. Not a word back. Nada. Not one. Finally someone saw my WTB thread and contacted me so I got the feet and hands I wanted eventually from another source. The other person never replied though they were on DoA almost everyday.

I agree about the rudeness. It does not cost a thng to be civil to others.

 

I'm a seller and a buyer. So far, I never had a problem with anyone here or on ebay *phew*

As a seller, I treat my customers as I would like to be treated. I try to keep them updated and keep a good communication because that's what I expect the most when I'm buying from someone...I want them to communicate with me or else I go crazy! I also do what I say I will do. ie. ship on a certain day? no excuses! even if it's raining or whatever, I always ship my items on the day I told the buyer because that's what I expect from a seller: Punctuality and sincerity.

People here have been good to me, I once sold a doll but I gave the wrong information about the body to the buyer (it was type 1 and I put type 2 by mistake) :[ but the wonderful person was very understanding and she sent back the doll and I gave her a full refund including all shipping expenses and fees.

So, my motto as a dealer is(and pretty much in life): treat others as you would like to be treated.

 

Do not tell me "Well you know how busy life can be!" With or without a lol face or smiley. In whatever roundabout version that phrase can be worded. It is OK to have a life and a busy schedule, but you better make time for any business transactions that people have with you.

If life is truly that busy, don't be selling. I have been jerked around with many forms of that excuse, here on DOA and other places. I keep tabs now when I buy things from people, and I do expect my item to be shipped out when it is said that it will be shipped. Not the day after, not the week after. That is something *I* paid for, and the seller *will* deliver. If not I will file for a refund. I don't ask for one, I file through paypal for one. It's my money, and I do have the right to file for a refund.

I do not play games, and I consider buying and selling anything, anywhere, very serious. Giving my hard earned money to a complete stranger, is serious business to me. I will treat it as such, and I would expect the same from someone buying from me.

I never buy anything if I don't have the money* in hand, or have 3/4 of the asking price. I pay promptly. I hate being jerked about or left hanging. If I say I am going to pay for something, I pay for it promptly and be done with it! Not fart about for a week or two before I decide to pay the poor seller I conveniently forgot about that is waiting for me to pay them.

I don't know how other people do things, but a business is a business and once money has been exchanged it is a legally binding agreement

It is actually expected to ship on time/in a timely manner, to communicate, have honest and fair practices. This is not really a courtsey, it is more of an expected requirement. At least for the USA. There is a lot of legal documentation about legally binding matters concerning business transactions and trading involving money.
People tend to overlook this matter. Which can lead to very severe consequences depending on how much money is involved.

In this hobby, there is a lot of money involved.

Luckily, I have only been screwed out of one pair of eyes. $10 is not so bad as what other people have lost in different circumstances.


Have communication, pay promptly, ship promptly. It's a simple concept...but well simple things seem to be quite difficult.

*My second wordy point.
I feel that it is perfectly acceptable to ask about items, regardless if you are "seriously buying/intending to buy" or not.

You walk into a department store without intending to buy sometimes, don't you? You may look at a few or several items, try them on, and then leave them haphazardly on a hanger or counter when you decide you don't want them, don't you?

Same idea for buying online. I ask questions about items because I need to know and don't have access to that item. Photos are the only way I can get an idea and feel for the item. If it is such a hassle and chore to take more photos of your items being sold, perhaps sellers should take many photos of their items on hand. At least in common views. (front/back/side views.) I know I keep many photos on hand for items I sell. They may or may not be in my topic, but they are available. I usually keep a for sale folder on my external, and sometimes I also have an online folder...usually on facebook.

I surely would not ask the seller to "Take photos of x item with every single doll the owner has in infinite amount of angles for each doll" but I would ask for a simple close up, and perhaps the said item with a doll if it is not with or on a doll to one similar to mine.

I try to keep my questions on point and very clear. I also have measurements and links to my dolls on hand, to try and help make things easier. Not everyone has my type of dolls, nor should I expect them to know my size doll.

I also state first thing if I am wanting to buy, or if I am just asking about the item.


I hope my opinions and advice (if any) is more helpful and looked upon as such, rather then a negative "flame" or "bashing". Maybe it will help.

 

Heck no, that wasn't flaming. It was perfection!

 

I don't have a marketplace access but now I'm just... afraid.

 

Honestly, the only reason to be afraid is if you plan to behave in any of the ways that people are (rightly!) calling out in this thread! CloakedSchemer has a great post (#294) earlier in this thread that should reassure you a lot. If that list covers the way you conduct yourself as a buyer AND as a seller, once you have MP access, you'll be just fine. As for protecting yourself from others who might not be as honest as you are: check feedback thoroughly, use your common sense, and don't enter into any MP deal that sounds too good to be true. Those are the same principles you'd use for any face-to-face business transaction.