Market place ETHICS (not rules) and the lack of!!

I also like to stick with the same sellers to minimize that, as well. II have my blacklist, sure, but I also have my gold list *grin* You can get a good idea of it by noticing who appears more than once in my feedback thread. Although really, I'd buy again from anyone who's left me feedback because they've shown me they're a good seller.

Of course, mind you, my blacklist is only for me. If someone wants my opinion on a particular seller, then I'll give it, but I don't go publishing a YOU MUST NOT BUY page anywhere. They could be perfectly nice to everyone else and I'm just a fluke. *shrug* Who knows. I will share my gold list with anyone, though.


Feedback is a question of ethics, indeed. It's common courtesy. I can also be a very busy person myself, but it takes me two seconds to sit down at my computer in my home (since I receive mail at my home) and say "I got it!" and then come back a day or two later and see if there's a new post in my feedback. I suppose it could be daunting for someone who buys a lot of things from different people, but my feeling is that if you could spend the time to shop, or you could spend the time to pack an item you sold up, you can spend a fraction of it leaving feedback. All it takes is an organized list that you made up at the time of sale--you bought what from who? That makes feedback easier.

 

Well, to me it is. Let me explain.

First, I keep lists of every single item I buy and sell, as well as printed pages of the group orders I host. I tend to leave feedback right after sending/receiving the items, and when a transaction has been completed, I cross out said items from my lists.

Now if I don't receive a PM notifying they got the items or a comment in my feedback thread, the transaction isn't over. What if the item got lost or was delivered to the wrong address, or something happened and it arrived in bad shape? Is the person happy with it? Was it the right size? I have no way of knowing that, and I can't either delete PMs related to that transaction or cross out the item in my lists.

Right now there are... *counts* 8 items in my list that I have no clue if they arrived or not.

Yes, I do worry too much, but hey, I'm just trying to do the right thing and make my buyers happy. I don't want to just gather tons of feedback, I want to close all my transactions and know they ended satisfactorily for both parts.

And as I said, and OpheliaB said too, is common courtesy. Communication is the key. And for one, I don't appreciate being ignored when I ask for something as simple as leaving a short comment in a feedback thread.

If you dealt with me and don't think feedback is important, well do tell me! But tell me something! Don't just stop replying to PMs, say you don't want to leave a comment, but tell me if you're happy with the item or not.

Once again, communication is the most important part.

Of course there are tons of excellent buyers/sellers, and I'll always remember who they are. But I'll also remember who didn't bother to reply to (imho) important PMs, or to a simple request to leave feedback.

 

That sounds really troublesome. One way to avoid having that happen again is to take non-refundable deposits from buyers who want an item to be put on "hold". I usually do that for people who need time to get their money together and it has worked thus far.

 

I agree with what most have said here. I know I've been flaky to one seller in the past, but I am striving to weigh my purchasing decisions more carefully now. I don't really mind not getting feedback from buyers/sellers, because I know people forget, but I always try to leave feedback. But sometimes it is hard when the other person doesn't have a feedback thread or it's improperly linked....

The only thing I have to add as a seller is my dislike of people posting why they can't buy your item in your thread. Stuff like "ooh your doll/clothing item/wig is pretty but I just bought another doll so I'm broke lol sorry" won't get you any sympathy from me. If you can't afford it I don't care.

Seems to me that some people need a lesson in money management, especially because dolls are so expensive.

 

I'd have to agree with Himitsu. While I don't keep an actual physical list, I really like to know items were received and that the buyer is satisfied (and in return I try to always do the same) I don't even mind if I don't get feedback so long as I know the item has safely arrived. ^^;

I buy and sell some and overall, most of my experiences in the marketplace have been just lovely. I've let buyers have a few long layaways and for the most part they've bee just lovely and really liked their new doll.

As a seller I had a few bad experiences. A buyer who asked for layaway, I agreed and requested a first payment. The buyer than strung me along for 2-3 weeks with excuses about having no money. (which makes me wonder why she was even trying to buy said doll o_O ) Another buyer who literally after a few hours after paying put the payment on hold for credit card fraud. (This buyer has now been banned from DoA) and most recently someone who had a WTB thread in the marketplace who when I contacted them at first was very enthusiastic, wanted lots of additional pictures, asked lots of questions, and then right when she was supposed to actually pay sent me a PM saying "I hope you won't think I'm flakey but I have lots of tuition bills" ~.~

I have no problem with people PMing me to buy something and then changing their mind, but once you start requesting lots of additional pictures and asking questions, and if the pictures and questions are answered satisfactorily, and you even say so in your PMs, then suddenly ducking out because you don't have the money is flakey.


I hate sellers who decide after offering an item at one price, once they've gotten a lot of offers to change it into an auction. That happened to me on my first attempt to purchase something here at DoA. The seller posted a doll I wanted for sale, I PMed immediately since her price was so good and then she responded explaining she was taking "offers" and she would be selling this doll for the next week.

And wow, I think someone who accepts a layaway payment and then refunds it because they want to sell the doll in full to someone else or accepts payment in full and then refunds because they want more money from someone else deserve bad feedback threads. Money has changed hands, even if it was refunded and to me that is beyond completely inappropriate. o_O

Re: FunnyLori have you thought about getting a second PayPal account specifically for people paying with balance or bank transfer only? While I totally understand not wanting to take a loss on fees for group orders, if you run a lot of group orders it might make sense to offer than option. ^^;

 

If it's that big of a problem, I'd suggest that you message the people and ask if the stuff arrived and if they are happy with it. If you don't get an answer after that, then you've done your bit as far as I'm concerned.

I will usually try to tell someone that their box has arrived safely, but to be honest I request that things over a certain dollar amount be sent with tracking because I can't always keep up with everything. If I am three states away when an item shows up, and my husband has to pick up 15 packages (3 of which may be doll things and the other 12 things we need for our home or business that I have shipped to the house because I have zero time to go to actual stores), then the tracking will show the seller that the item arrived and was signed for, thus mitigating some worry.

If a seller is still worried after that, they can (and do) message me, at which point I call my husband and say, "Hey did you happen to pick up a box from Jane Smith?" and he will say yes. If the seller STILL seems to be worried I will call my husband again and have him open the box, make sure the doll has all its headcaps and fingers and toes, etc. and I will report back to the seller.

Feedback is another story. I don't feel comfortable leaving that until I get a chance to get back home and look at the item. And if ten items have piled up in my absence, or more, that is a hassle. There are times when I have been gone for extended periods and the front hall looks like a warehouse. I would prefer to space out my buying so I only get like 2-3 doll things a month, but this whole hobby is "Buy it now or it will be gone!" So that hasn't worked. (See other thread where I am frustrated with the new releases)

I have never yet been unhappy with a doll transaction or negged a seller because I got the item and didn't like it or something. I'm not that fussy, I work hard to settle any sort of "issue" before hand and I also understand that if I had a problem four weeks down the road because I was out of town and didn't see it at the time, it would be very unfair to the seller. And like I said, if there is some special situation where a seller didn't hear from me and is concerned, like they want to spend the money on something else and want to know everything's OK before they do so, they can message me and I'll try to take care of it. The vast majority of sellers never message me again after item ships so I figure they just looked at the tracking, said "Oh yeah it's there" and went about their business.

There are a few sellers who put right in their sales post, "I will never sell again to anyone who doesn't leave feedback or tell me item arrived" and for them I knock myself out to leave that feedback because they make it a term of sale. If it's super important to you that you hear back from people or know item arrived, and you're going to be selling a lot, then maybe you could make a similar condition to let people know?

I realize I may be an unusual case but if you had my life you would understand why feedback is not the most important thing on my mind. It sounds rude to say that but I have to be honest. Timely payment, yes that is KEY. Feedback, not so much. If someone wants to think it's rude, hey, they can PM me and we can discuss it.

 

For me i don't buy something unless 1. i have the money in my hand. 2. i REALLY want or need it. (VERY VERY rarly do i return things. and only then when it has a problem) good example i was going crazy wanting my doll for over a year but i never had the money nor a good reason to buy her till just now. (aka my b-day is in a couple of weeks and i fanilly got some money) so yes i believe the person should say something even if it's a bad exuase like i forgot or i just didn't want to pay you this week.

 

I don't really worry that much about feedback, I mean how important is it if you've got 200 feedbacks saying how great you are at buying 3.00 outfit bits and pieces?

I think it's important to leave feedback for buyers of expensive things (100.00 and over perhaps?) and especially if they successfully completed a layaway or something like that. Otherwise I don't always leave feedback for people who buy cheap stuff clothes and accessories. However... I always leave feedback right away if they ask me to.

*edit* I do try to leave feedback for sellers, even of inexpensive items, but if I get a lot of things at one time, I sometimes forget or someone slips through the cracks!

Raven

 

lol, well, I ranted a lot about feedback because it's been happening to me a lot recently, and it's getting frustrating.

And sorry if I sounded too bitter! It's just that It's been happening for the last couple of months or so and it's getting on my nerves X_x

bunnydots, but it's not like I don't send PMs asking if they got the items and if they're happy with them. I've gotten tons of messages like that ignored. No response at all, and that's what's irritating.

Honestly, most of my transactions on DoA have been great, people have been awesome, sweet and understanding. I can only remember a couple of weird cases, but that was it.

I don't really mind if someone backs out of a deal AS LONG as no money has been sent. Just let me know before you send anything or before I send it. No biggie.

Same as a buyer, if the seller/artist/seamstress is having problems to finish or send the stuff on time, just message me and tell me! I can be the most patient and understanding person in the world if I'm only told of what's going on.

So, yeah. Basically communication or the lack of it that can make a great or a not-so-happy transaction for me.

 

That happened to me once on Ebay. It was to weird... I wrote to that person and never answered back.

I also had had a lot of transactions lately. All had been working smoothly. I'm really careful with people online. Even if some people don't pay for insurance I pay of insurance because it would be my loss if the person says that it never arrived and paypal decides not to help me for some strange reason. It's important to be a good seller and corteous even if the client is not that way...

 

To those who are understandably tired of being strung along by buyers: is there anything to stop you PMing/emailing the buyer once they've agreed to buy the item and telling them that if they don't pay within (for example) three days, you'll put the item up for sale again?

Because this isn't eBay or etsy, there's no "I pledge to buy this item" button, and there's no concrete contract entered into when the buyer agrees to pay or face the consequences - of course there is the written PM or email saying they will, but there's no one to chase them up if they don't. Giving a buyer a set time to pay, and perhaps stating that set time up front on the thread itself, gives you more control over the proceedings

I can see the reasoning behind the desire for feedback about flaky buyers/sellers, but I can also see it being hugely abused. Because there's no moment at which the sale becomes final with consequences (in the sense that a non-paying buyer will be punished), this kind of feedback is extremely subjective. At what point is someone designated a flake, for example - when they say they'll pay and don't, or when they express interest and then are never heard from again? What if they do flake, but explain themselves - do they still deserve the bad feedback? And again, what about the legitimate (though admittedly, probably few) cases in which a buyer/seller can't get to a computer for whatever reason? People can and will interpret the meaning of 'flake' in different ways, and the moderators certainly don't need to be following up every little detail of these cases.

I think that if you sell or buy here, you have to remember that it's a community first, and the Marketplace area isn't the main drive. Of course that doesn't mean we should allow ourselves to be cheated, but someone flaking is not a crime. It's annoying, frustrating, and often upsetting, but this isn't a staffed and closely controlled market like eBay or etsy or any other site in which a non-paying buyer will be punished because they pushed that "I promise to pay" button. That sort of control is, I think, never going to happen here, and perhaps buyers and sellers need to realise that although flaking is unacceptable, it's also not controllable in this arena for all the reasons I stated above.

I've done much more buying than selling here, but if I sell more, I will absolutely be implementing a "no payment within three days means you don't get the item" clause on my sales threads. It's much less hassle for me - if someone does flake then it's quick work to restart the sales thread, and it means that the 'rules' are stated clearly. Taking a firm, hard line on flaking is, I think, the best way to combat it. These are business transactions and excuses are irrelevant, ultimately. I know I sound like a big old meanie, but when money is concerned, and especially the amounts that are frequently spent in the Marketplace, it's important to protect yourself.

 

I don't mind if someone changes their mind about buying form me, but defintely LMK know about it, so I don't keep the item on hold forever and PM the buyer about it more than once. I once had a buyer tell me after I PMd her twice, that she had just forgotten to pay me... I held the items for two weeks without knowing she'd "forgotten" about them.

The worst experiences I've had though, have been with sellers. I just recently had a doll undersold from me in the time frame of six minutes. I had PMd the seller when she first put the doll up for sale but supposedly it had sold. Then a couple of weeks later the seller PMs me to let me know the sale fell though and am I still interested? If I am, the doll is mine; she will sell me the doll. I PM her back, that yes; I definitely want the doll! Six minutes later I get a PM from her asking me if I have sent her the payment, but because she hasn't heard back from me, she sold the doll to someone else. Needless to say, this whole thing was WTF!

Since no money exchanged hands, I cannot leave feedback of any kind.

Another seller was selling a Juri 05 to me for $270.00 and selling the same doll to another member for $200.00. The other person trying to buy the Juri, happened to be a friend who was contacting me for a face-up on the same doll I was trying to buy. Why the money difference? When did I become Donald Trump? And how many people was this seller going to sell the same doll to?

I finally did get the doll but for less. I had said I wanted the doll and even though I felt she was trying to rip me off, I felt guilty about backing out. The worse part of this deal was that the doll was just placed in a box with a bunch of packing peanuts but no bubble wrap and no protective mask, so when she arrived the face-up was all scratched and the eyelashes were a mess.

The seller is known here and she still sells and buys and posts in this forum. There's no way I could leave feedback about it.

This brings me to my next point: feedback and retaliation. Many people are apprehensive about leaving bad feedback because they don't want to deal with retaliation. So a lot of people just keep quiet about what happened to them. People just suck it up for the sake of their peace of mind. I'm not saying that I agree with this but I defintely understand it.

*Edit: Hadn't read Rhian's post. I totally agree with the "no payment within three days means you don't get the item" clause, although the amount of people who don't bother to read what is stated in a sales thread is just

 

I've often received poorly packaged items, but as long as there's no damage, I don't complain. I figure people aren't professionals. To me it seems obvious, but I do know at some point I was once a beginner, and have made errors. Just something to think about!
I have seen just as many faceups damaged by "protectors" as protected, incidentally!!

Raven

 

You're not unusual, bunnydots. You're a typical adult. I myself often find my weekends taken up by business travel. Add that to a full 12 hours of graduate courses and you have a very busy OpheliaB, and that's not even counting the off time I take to go to this convention or that because I want to relax. But I surf DoA in my leisure time (like now, omg, I don't have to beeeeee anywhere today or tomorrow, it's so amazing!) and when I commit to buy, I also commit to seeing the entire deal through. And that includes feedback. I figure that if I don't have enough time to leave it, I don't have enough time to be shopping. It all boils down to time management and treating others like you want to be treated. It's not necessarily rude to forget feedback because you're busy, but plenty of us have found ways around that sort of thing so buying and selling is enjoyable on DoA.

 

I see your point Raven, but the person who sold me the Juri was no beginner, she knew what she was doing and should have acted on said knowledge.

Also, and this is just my opinion, but to me ignorance is not an excuse to damage something. If you don't know about something then take some time to get informed about it. This is the best place for it. This forum is packed with information about pretty much all aspects of ABJDs. If you can't find what you are looking for just; ask! People will help you out. Or PM a mod, they will either point you in the right direction or just tell you what you need to know.

 

I think that's a big problem with online selling in general. I've sold items on other forums, a lot of My Little Pony items come in and out of my house through MLPTP and the like, and I've noticed this is a problem everywhere. Even on Ebay people can't bother to take a minute or two and read the rules of your sale.

I now require payment within 3 days unless I have made an agreement with the buyer to pay later. I often give people extra time to pay, all they have to do is ask at the very beginning and I'm fine with it. What I can't understand is why people order something when they don't have the money, and then expect you to wait on them without asking you as the seller how you feel.

 

I agree with you that that kind of sucks. At the very least they could message you back and explain they were super busy and give some idea of where the item was. I would do that, at least.

 

Thanks for understanding, OpheliaB. This is a holiday weekend here and I am at work...all weekend. I'm the only one in the office. I'm on DoA and other forums basically so I will have someone to talk to and my husband will probably drop by tomorrow but...stuff like this happens in my business and I just have to roll with it. I know some other people on DoA go to school and work a lot of hours, or work more than one job, or have to work and care for kids, so I don't feel like I'm alone. At the same time I also feel like there are some DoA members who maybe don't work and perhaps have more time to just deal with doll stuff and wouldn't understand. Since I don't know each person's situation I try not to make any assumptions and just do the best I can at communicating with people, even if feedbacks occasionally go by the wayside.

 

I know its usually the seller that is given grief from a buyer, but it can work just as well the opposite.

Last month I inquired to a very well-respected member here on doa about holding a wig they were selling for exactly one week. They said it was perfectly fine, and changed the status of the wig in their thread. Then, seven days later I PM'ed the seller thanking them for the hold, and letting them know that I was ready to send the money as soon as they provided their paypal adress. They then got back to me the next day saying that they had already sold the wig to a friend, who had sent the money with no regard to the fact that the wig was on hold for someone else. The member accepted their money, and sold them the wig without even notifying me.

That I considered poor ethics, by principle and business.

 

Awww, bunnydots, believe me you're not alone! *sends hugs*

I used to have 2 jobs, and that's when I started on BJDs ^^;;
So I totally understand how it is. I didn't have any holidays either! Or they could just call me right when I was coming home to go back cause the network had crashed or something else went wrong.
Eventually I left one of my jobs, and then... ok, I'll stop ^^;;

And you're right about the not knowing the other person's situation, that's why I'm usually patient. But not hearing back from a person that you have seen online and/or posting all the time in over a week, er... :/

ok! I'd better stop ranting about my thoughts on lack of communication, cause I just end up repeating myself over and over