Rule Update Mirodoll banned from DoA | updates in post #2 for September 2018

I know Candy and Polly are already banned by proxy but I noticed their body looks like an exaggerated Iplehouse B.I.D body.
This sucks, I really hoped when I started to see some more good company photos from Mirodoll that we'd get another reputable budget company like Resinsoul...

 

This is extremely disappointing. I own a lot of Mirodolls, so my heart is broken a little.

In the interest of clarity, I am not currently using my newest 1/4 body. I wouldn't mind sending it to somebody who has a JID body for comparisons. This would help clear up the issue.

 

I think we're gonna need conclusive proof beyond just photos. If someone has both to compare that'd be way more helpful i think. A real shame if true though, as Miro are often the go to company suggested for newbies. Have they themselves been approached for comment? In the interest of fairness it could be worth allowing them to present evidence if they believe they're being falsely accused or indeed admission if it turns out there has been some iffy dealings going on. You have to wonder though, why? What did they have to gain from doing so? They already had regular customers despite their bodies flaws, you'd think it'd have been more sensible to just you know, try to improve rather than copy/paste?
All very odd.

I heard they had a new sculptor, is it possible that's where the problem lies and the high ups were oblivious? Or have they gotten so desperate they just didn't care about ethics? Either way, this needs to be investigated further.

 

Do I need to delete in dolls my mirodoll body? Hope they really aren't doing this.

 

If you have a hybrid that is currently on a non-banned body, can you still discuss the doll? Also, those on the okay list may still be discussed?

 

Can the moderators also please clarify what the status is for dolls made by artists who use Mirodoll as a casting service? There are a number of independent doll artists who don't do their own casting and a lot of them have been using Mirodoll as a casting service. Are dolls designed by other people but cast by Mirodoll included in the post March 2018 ban?

 

I was wondering the same thing? I don't think mine is one of the banned bodies but this is all very disappointing. I wish that things like this didn't need to happen...

 

@moderators please be aware, if it has slipped the mods minds, there is still a mirodoll banner ad running!

 

My concern here is of another nature, though.

Do mods have the new Mirodoll body in question and the Iplehouse JID body for a physical inspection and comparison? Did Mirodoll get contacted and confronted about this before making this decision? Did they refuse to present evidence? Did they ignore emails or any other methods of communication? Did they fail to prove or defend themselves from these allegations?

Is this decision made solely based on the alarming likeness between the IH JID body and the new Mirodoll MSD body? Because we have seen a lot of bodies with freakishly "identical" quality to other dolls and I don't see decisions like this being made about them.

Another point to make. The cost of producing dolls is China isn't the same as it is in Japan/Korea. (I'm speaking of ABJD here, not BJDs from other countries and independent doll makers.) Mirodoll doesn't hire seamstresses to create full sets, doesn't seem to use a professional photography team or use elaborate dioramas/sets/props, or hire “HQ” face-up artists for their promos. I have seen some ridiculously talented BJD face-up artists from China who charge 1/3 the price of face-up artists on our side of the globe, so even if they had more "elaborate face-up" offerings, that wouldn't necessarily mean the price would go up. All of these factors help in reducing the cost of operations, I think.

To say that the lower cost of their dolls could potentially be because they copy other people's creations and tweak it to release under their brand is counterproductive as it might give new collectors the impression that all affordable dolls might cost less for similar reasons.

I think banning of a brand should only happen when there is no shadow of a doubt the company is blatantly recasting/tweaking an existing doll/part. From the post, I do not feel this is the case. It's important that we as a community make decisions to protect our artists and hobby, but we can't start making such decisions on assumptions/photographs alone. If the new Mirodoll body has been analyzed and proven a modified copy of IH JID without a doubt, then by all means, this is an understandable decision. As it stands, we can probably name quite a few companies with similar bodies/parts to others that are considered on-topic still. It's important that we're careful and fair to all companies.

I hope this issue with Mirodoll can be cleared up — whether it'll be in favor of them or not. I also hope Iplehouse can release a statement or perhaps even analyze the Mirodoll body themselves to shed light into this situation as well.

 

Also, a quick note: does the Claudette dolls and her sisters still remain on topic? They were made by an artist but Mirodoll did their casting. I'd hate for this to backlash on Arwen.

 

Honestly, in all these years almost all their attempts to improve resulted in hideously misshapen bodies and faces. For example, their "66 cm Mascular girl body" or one of their 70 cm male bodies, now removed from their site, clearly based on Dollshe Rhythmos body. Also, still the same terrible elbow and wrist joints. I don't think they have any potential to improve, seeing what they did to Iple B.I.D body. Seriously, they were using such a well-sculpted body as a base and remade it into what?..

 

Are XM Dolls still allowed? I know they're currently on break, but they're supposed to be returning at some point and their dolls were usually posted in the Miro threads...

 

The 66cm Mascular girl body was actually sculpted by Sicktress, she made the torso and Miro provided the arms and legs. I believe they are also the company that cast her Deesse head sculpt. If that body is one of the accused copying then one would need to get Sicktress involved as well, however I remember her sculpting process over many months on instagram before sending the torso to Mirodoll for production. (Mentioned from an above comment not based on the mod post, since this body is deemed allowed on the forum)

I am interested in seeing real life side by sides though, hopefully one or more people can get the doll bodies in question together for comparison rather than overlaying images, or at least more images as was done when Pidgindoll's thread was made (inspecting joint aesthetic as well as photographs of inside the joints taken from the same angles).

One case that would be a good indicator is the inside of the thighs- if it is a modified scan perhaps there is still sign of the iplehouse stringing method in the engineering of the hip sockets, even though Mirodoll has visible drilling channels into the legs.

 

OK wow. Yeah, so much wrong here. One, yes, Sicktress handmade that body. I know because I prompted her to do so and watched her progress. She made it to be usable with the 66cm lean boy limbs on purpose. I do not find it hideously deformed, that is opinion and only yours, though perhaps shared by others. That is just mean spirited. As for their 70cm male, I'm glad they removed it as I have begged them for years to work on it- the engineering was poor and it was based OVER the 70cm girl body as suggested by another customer (which was not me). Hopefully it comes back improved. (Edit: just read the comment that it was 'clearly base on the Rythmos body'. Sorry but *LOLOLOLOL* If that is true, wow, Miro SUCKS at copying. I don't believe that's true because just LOOK at it!... well, I let the comparison speak for itself. Maybe they passed the body through a room that once contained a Rythmos body, but I think it all stops there.)

I've noticed the 5stardoll new super star 70cm girl also looks a heck of a lot like the DT 18yrs girl, moreso than Miro's version, but I would not say they copied. Understand, please, there are only so many configurations a human body can take. There are a 100 forms of martial arts and they all start repeating eventually. Why? Because they're copying each other? No, because the human body can only do so much. Tall dolls, especially female forms, are often made lean to compensate for the weight of the extra resin needed and because tall and lean is a popular aesthetic. Now, I understand the 70cm body is not on the block here, but I've seen quite a few bodies that are similar to many others because you can only do so much with the form and keep it recognizable. (We don't all want Doll Chateau aesthetics.)

Similar? yes, the new MSD body IS similar (though if they were going to 'upgrade', I'd like to think they'd go in the direction of better poseability than IH) and so are many others. Cannons fired like this should be based on a lot more proof and not feeling. "However, we believe their low prices are a direct result of them stealing the work other companies have done. With the recent trademark situation, the mod team feels that we cannot allow Mirodoll to continue on as they have been with no consequences." Wow. That's harsh. They're cheap so they must be copying? Recasts are actually more expensive than Miros. So to continue as they have with no consequences... this translates to "we think they did a no-no but they're cheap, so we'll punish them for being cheap, because it must mean they copied." Flawed logic, my friends.

Please use facts only before you defame a company like this. If it happens to be true, then your conscience is clear; if it ends up being false, how do they regain public trust? You would have defamed them, marred their name for years to come and it will stick. You know it will. I've seen it happen before. That's libel- in America and probably other countries you could be sued for that and loss of income. Would Miro have any recourse? No, they wouldn't. But this is serious- please don't go about it this way, get the proof first. Then I'll comply with your wishes. But this? This is not right on many levels.

 

Unfortunately it isnt up to us what the mods choose to do and what they allow to happen on the site. They have made that very clear.

 

I'd like to know as well; the mirodoll body I use for a hybrid isn't on the banned list, but I also use that same doll as my profile picture so if I need to change it I'd really like to know.

Even if not all the stuff from Mirodoll is banned, this situation probably means all of mirodoll's sculpts are going to be under heavy scrutiny, so I'm wondering if that's gonna change in the future or not. It's really very unfortunate; It's one the main companies I see encouraged for people new to the hobby (besides Resinsoul of course) or for a cheap hybrid option, so this is going to mess with an awful lot of people.

 

Basically, if Miro can provide the original 3d models and someone can do a proper in person comparison, we should have a pretty good set of evidence right?

Personally a few of those comparison pics I see too much different and only superficial similarities but photos can be deceptive either way. We need the two bodies literally side by side to be compared and we also need to hear what miro have to say.

I also have this worry that they may have hired someone in good faith who's now screwed them over, because it seems a pretty strange change of their usual technique or indeed their attitude on facebook where they constantly ask for feedback and suggestions on jointing. Why make crap joints if you can just 3d copy and print better ones? Why make wierd boobs if you can just scan some decent ones? Seems like a pretty strange choice to make. I mean, you can 3d scan something, why not take the good elements?

 

It has happened before (Fairyland, actually, and probably more) where sculptors were hired and then stole from other sources without the knowledge of the company. That particular sculptor was dismissed, a public apology given by Fairyland and they engaged the real artist instead. (This was for the steampunk weapons.) So it is possible- I just want Miro treated fairly and clearly they are being treated with a bias due to their low cost. This surprises me. I'd like to see the -innocent until PROVEN guilty- thing happen before destroying a reputation. (Edited company name to be correct)