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Rule Update Mirodoll banned from DoA | updates in post #2 for September 2018

May 26, 2018

    1. It was from the admin, posted on the Mirodoll discussion group, in the recent posts in the about section, there’s no share feature on the post, I also reposted it on my Instagram(same username)
    2. [​IMG]

      Taken from @SugarPineapple 's Instagram. It's unclear from the screenshot who posted this to facebook, what their relationship is to mirodoll or whether or not we can trust the information, yet.
      #42 Idyllhands, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 3
    3. I didn’t realize until after I left out who posted it oops. It was from Arwen Grune who casts her dolls through Mirodoll and is the admin of the discussion group.
      • x 1
    4. @Idyllhands That was posted not long ago by the admin of the BJD Mirodoll Discussion Group on Facebook!
    5. The bodies in question do not appear to currently be listed in the "doll body" category in MiroDoll's shop.
    6. if that's the case, maybe we can expect some positive news soon from the powers that be :)
      • x 4
    7. XM doll is NOT Miro... They are a separate facility and factory. They just sell their dolls on the Miro site. XM is Magical Angel.

      Miro has removed the offending bodies already. I will draw a new body sketch and their sculptor will sculpt it as my art to follow, just like they did with the Mika head. That way any blame for copying can be directed at me.
      • x 9
    8. I'm relieved they're taking this issue so seriously -- I honestly really liked dealing with them, and would hate for any copying to have been purely intentional on their part. I kind of didn't think it was though, as honestly... Copying Iplehouse bodies? I own two Iplehouse dolls, and while they have stunning faces, the body sculpts are kind of the worst thing about them, bulky and hard to pose. Plus, with already being such a popular company, it would be crazy for Mirodoll to risk their reputation like that now. It would be total self-sabotage and just makes no sense from a business perspective.
      • x 13
    9. "He didn't know he couldn't use other dolls as reference" and "Miro didn't know he was doing it" are the lamest excuse EVER.

      Are you telling me that miro didn't even check his work?

      I'm sorry I'm not buying it.
      • x 24
    10. When I was learning to draw, many moons ago now, I referenced TONS of other people's work so my hand could get used to the feel of the lines and the shapes. I did it fir many years. Heck, I will STILL do it now if i want to explore a new style or relearn something forgotten. If the sculptor is not used to the 3d system, he may very well have referenced something to get the hang of it.

      Miro not checking it is another story but they ARE in China. China limits internet access. I'm not excusing it, I'm saying there may be mitigating factors. Or they were foolishly too trusting. I dont know the whole situation, I wasn't there.
      • x 17
    11. We are not talking about a person who wants to research other styles to improve him/herself, we are talking about a person who thought it was cool to take the IH body and copy it.

      (Of course these are speculations since we don't know whetever the statement is true or not)
      • x 10
    12. Yes, speculations on both our behalfs. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt but I understand where you're coming from.
      • x 5
    13. As a disclaimer, I think some of the words I'm about to say sound a lot harsher than intended. So I want it to be known that I get why Miro owners are worried and saddened by this, and I get why it earns emotional responses and I get why seeing an affordable outlet for artists' casting service accused is especially upsetting but I want to say my piece anyway.

      The sticking point for me is not the msd body (though I do see it) the sticking point for me is the 70cm girl body. The second I saw it I couldn't believe it was anything other than a sanded recast of a Dollstown with elbows and knees fused to be single jointed. The truly telling part, for me, is that Dollstown leg twist. If you look at both of the dolls left legs, the shape and the fact that you pretty much have to twist it like that to make her stand, making the first comparison photo really highlight how exactly the legs match, is all the proof I really need. There's no way one isn't a copy of the other. The leg twist is not a feature of 'only so many human shapes' it's how one specific artist tends to sculpt his dolls. All the other features you can argue away as aesthetic, there's only so many boob shapes, a long waist makes her look slimmer, hip bones are sexy, if you don't want tube arms it makes sense that the top of the forearm bulges out. But that leg twist and leg shape is 100% Dollstown.

      That said, I think this reaction that DoA's mods are acting out willy nilly, with a knee jerk ban is totally unjustified. They've been looking at this same body with a questioning eye for years and not taken action. This also means that it's not just a new artist at Mirodoll who didn't know any better, it's something they've been doing for years. I'm with Demiurgo that it's pretty much the lamest excuse ever. There's a pretty big difference between tracing something for practice-or duplicating something from a reference for your own personal use, and using that item for profit. If you say, copied a picture of Naruto to learn to draw, that's fine. But if you copied it, gave him blue hair, and tried to sell it as your own original character, that would be wrong, and I think everyone understands that. Therefore I find it total butt covering to claim their artist didn't know any better.

      Seeing as Miro's dolls were tweaked and not exact copies, I'm really glad the mods are not holding Miro's actions against owners. They seem to be addressing these highly suspected sculpts very calmly and reasonably. Additionally I don't think this accusation will destroy Miro. Like Dollmore, there will be people who vehemently deny the evidence no matter how damning and those people will rally behind Miro. Like Dollmore and Dollzone (and others) they'll have a chance to make changes and improve. And if somehow, they magically prove they digitally sculpted everything start to finish, this will blow over, and I think the only lasting effect will be collectors responding with more skepticism to other accusations of copying.
      #53 napoleonchan, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
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    14. Yes, thank you. Excellent point! This ban has now set a precedent and in all fairness, it should be equally be applied to every BJD company, every BJD doll, head and body sculpt ever made. I'd wish to know when the full scale inspections of companies and artists of all dolls and companies will start?

      Has the Dollzone/ Doll Leaves 58cm girl body and 45cm girl body situation been looked at? They are very similar. In fact, there are more similarities here than differences. One of them ought to be banned!
      How about Dreaming Doll Elva girl body and Little Monica Harmony girl body? Aren't they dubiously identical in shape?
      Raccoon Dolls and Iplehouse FIDs need to be put under the magnifying glass immediately.
      All 1/6 baby bodies should be lined up and inspected, measured and judged. They are all so dubiously similar.
      The traditional style head sculpts by Luts, Fairyland, Little Monica, Dreaming Doll, Dream of Doll, Crobi (the list is endless) should now the put under extreme scrutiny and it must be determined which ones are too similar to each other.
      Let's not hold back! This needs to be done properly now!

      Please add your own suspicions and suggestions! Let's make an official list of every even remotely similar doll part too. Have some hands been copied? Are there too similar feet or horns or head caps?

      Have we considered hunting down members here who we suspect might have been inspired by someone else's face-up?
      Did someone sew a similar costume to the one you made for your BJD? Report them now!
      #54 Blankqueen, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 44
    15. The sarcasm in that post is a bit rich. While I understand the perspective of those trying to defend Mirodoll after they essentially confessed to the wrong doing, it does seem a bit silly. The company in question has already admit their artist did wrong and have taken steps to remove the items in question from their own website. At this point, there's not much more to defend AGAINST the mods' decision. This wasn't a decision made lightly (obviously) and it ended up being very correct.
      • x 34
    16. If Mirodoll staff themselves took the bodies down and admitted that it was a "mistake" done by their "designer", then what the Mods said and done are correct. There is simply no need to "defend" Mirodoll now, is there? They admitted it.
      • x 23
    17. It happens more than one might expect. I had worked for several businesses and 90%of the time they never checked what I was doing just gave the "okay" on the final work. (Also working with 3D models, just not in the doll industry.) So I can definitely see that happen. I'm not saying this is okay, they should keep an eye out for these things and maybe with this happening they will.
      • x 15
    18. No one is defending anyone here, least of all me. I'm asking for equality. All those other companies haven't been interrogated, put on the spot, intimidated... yet. Who knows what they might confess to if we did do that? Goodness knows there are enough similarities to spot in the dolls, if we really start investigating. Let's make the already angst driven and fear based Den of Demons an even more scary pit of doom where no one is safe and anyone can feel persecuted and intimidated! :D Hehe! Oh. Pardon the sarcasm. I'll humbly take that back.

      I meant to show how very minute the differences really are in dolls. I always thought it was odd that the DoA has taken it upon themselves to police the BJD business as it is. I remember a time when they policed style too and companies were banned for not falling within a certain aesthetic. They killed off a good few fine doll makers with their bans. BJD companies are already afraid to even try anything new and innovative, because if they don't have a wrist joint or some such, they're immediately off topic. So DoA is pushing companies to conform and then police them for too many similarities, when they do. They should decide which way the want things now. I tried to show where implementing this kind of policies can lead to, but if the majority of you members condone and accept this, the hey, live and let live. I'm all for freedom of expression! :) If you're lucky, it will it be your favourite company on the chopping block next.

      I'll just quietly remove myself from here and play with my dolls elsewhere. Enjoy yourselves folks! ;)
      #58 Blankqueen, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 47
    19. Thank goodness the 3 Miro dolls I bought are not on the list. I have this thing about ordering old style. I would not defy the mods on their decisions because I don't know a hundredth of what they know. But, this would mean that I was badly burned four times for nearly 800.00 us dollar, buying what was recommended to me by DOA. Since I only learned about BJD's after Christmas last year, I think it would make me very bitter.
      I can see very clearly the quality difference in Miro from my IH Mari FID and it only told me you get what you pay for. And yes, I bought the Miro's because they were cheaper, so I could practice until Mari arrived.
      I do hope this gets sorted. I will abide by DOA rules, and above all, I am pro-artist.

      But wait. I know I asked this on this forum once before, to a Moderator. How is 3D printing art? Isn't that mass production? Are the original sculpts not done in clay? I use an oil-based clay to sculpt, and that form is generally destroyed in the casting process. So they take a clay sculpt and then print it? Confused... And a little irritated.
      #59 Csiminae, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 3
    20. @Blankqueen
      In the images provided when starting the thread, there is an image lineup of the JID body and the Miro body that is completely exact in the torso and legs (the arms are not clearly matched due to pose). The bodies you posted, while they share common aesthetics, would likely not result in such an extreme overlap if photographed from the same angle and juxtaposted over one another -- nowhere near -- which is why those bodies have not been met with the same scrutiny (scrutiny being a more fitting word imo than 'intimidation'. Nobody sent muscular characters to loom outside Mirodoll's offices, or writing threatening letters, just asked them to explain themselves.)

      And if it were to turn out that one of them *is* modified from another, you can be sure as soon as someone has photo proof as clear as that of the JID body and the Miro, those companies would absolutely face scrutiny. Not sure what "maybe next time it'll be your favorite company on the chopping block" is supposed to mean, any company who does this should face scrutiny, and certainly nobody's lopping off any heads...! Companies can and do come back from such mistakes, Dollmore and Dollzone are alive and kicking for example. (By the way, you also have at least one example where both bodies are the work of the same artist, so if there's a similarity there, well...)

      I also believe it is quite hyperbolic to say DoA is "policing the BJD business" (also, small note: since you mentioned aesthetics, companies which are off-topic for aesthetic aren't banned, they're just off topic. You can actually post about them in Brigadoon if you want, and images of them can go in the threads and gallery if they're hanging out with an on-topic doll). Also to say it has "killed off a good few fine doll makers with their bans"(...!) Can you name a dollmaker which has gone out of business due to being off-topic for DoA?
      #60 evilhamster13, May 30, 2018
      Last edited: May 30, 2018
      • x 35