Misty Blue Elf Kumi - Yellowing Alert!

We didn't have six months to wait and see what happens. Short ordering time meant we had to make a quick decision, and from the way the dolls were advertised and Bambicrony's other dolls, I thought they were more like Volks sunlight skin, which is pretty stable and a coloured urethane. If Bambicrony had just said that these dolls were a coloured french resin on their info pages and not urethane like their other dolls, I definitely would not have bought my doll. Sure I would have been disappointed, but I wouldn't be an upset customer either. Hiding important info like that in locked messages in the Q&A board is not right.

 

See, that's just the thing though, there was never any indication that these colors would be limited in the long run (Bambicrony has already showed that just because there is one limited run doesn't mean there won't be another limited run). I viewed the limitations to be more as a sort of 'let's see how this goes' thing than a 'this will be your only chance EVER' thing.

I really really think the fact that this is not a US company, English is not their first language, and other countries have very different business practices can't be stated enough.

I'm in no way trying to say that you aren't totally justified in your feelings of frustration over not having received what you expected. What I'm hoping for is that by sharing this information we can help prepare each other and new people for what is pretty much a standard in the industry. I'm most distressed with the implication that Bambicrony lied or deliberately misled people, which I do not (personally) feel is the case. They didn't state before that it was french resin but they also to my knowledge didn't state that it wasn't. In fact, it appears they made no claims about what kind of resin it was.

I fully approve of this forum being used for venting, goodness knows I've done it enough myself. I only felt like I needed to speak up when it started sounding like people were accusing Bambicrony of being deceptive. I genuinely don't think they were, although they could certainly have given a little more information. My experience with Japanese companies (which is fairly extensive) has taught me that in that culture, consumers don't ask nearly so many questions and tend to accept what they are given without complaint. The common phrase in Japan "It asks by no claim and no return. Let the timid one withhold a bid." is pretty much what I carry with me to every purchase made from an Asian company.

On the plus side, like another poster has stated, there is a tremendous secondary market demand for the dolls, so you are virtually guaranteed to get at least what you paid for it.

H

 

Here's what BC said about the colors:

Limited Product : We'll take order during Feb.14, 2007~Mar.14, 2007.
After that, it'll be excluded from the Basic line.

To me, that *IS* them saying that these colors won't be available again.

 

Well, 'excluded from the Basic line' doesn't mean they won't be released again, just that they won't be the standards. At least in my interpretation.

I waited over a year before I would even consider buying a tan doll because I wasn't sure about the resin stability over the long haul. During that time I passed up various limiteds because I wasn't sure what would happen over time. I guess I never really worried that I wouldn't be able to buy a tan doll in the future, and likewise I never worried that I wouldn't be able to buy a colored Bambi doll in the future. Maybe not Pepe, and maybe not these particular colors, but this seems to have been a successful run so I think there's every reason to think they'll do another run of fantasy colored elves. I just worry that excessively negative comments to them, especially ones implying they cheated people or lied about their products, will cause them to think twice before re-releasing the fantasy colors.

H

 

This is the basic problem businesses face when expanding into international markets ... does the buyer honour the sellers' customs or does the seller honour the buyers' customs?

Obviously, the situation with many Asian companies isn't really that the customer has to swallow the situation - "let the timid one withhold a bid" - or there wouldn't be the sort of bend-over-backwards customer service (from which, I might add, American companies would do well to learn!). I would think most companies, of any nationality, have some idea that to expand, much less retain, a good customer base it's important that the customer be satisfied ... better still, delighted. If every purchase carried a substantial risk for which the seller bore no responsibility, we'd all (Asian and non-Asian alike) do well to be timid.

As I've said, I'm fine with my sweetie however his misty blue colour plays out over time. I have no idea the extent to which these colour-aging issues were known or researched, so I have no idea whether intentional deception or merely English-isn't-the-primary-language misunderstandings come into play. And perhaps the stated problem in this thread (one can hope) is limited in nature. But it does appear, to me at least, that the image the company attempted to create in my mind (surely colourfast didn't mean waterproof!) may not wind up jiving with the reality.

I sincerely hope these companies do continue to experiment, as I am sure they will, for it is through a process of trial and error that these developments evolve into magical, dependable products that make customers want to spend hundreds upon hundreds of dollars. Unfortunately, if the results of experimentation lead to a limited edition that is flawed in a way international customers would object to, if the customer base winds up feeling even slightly cheated (however unintentionally), if the company fails to address the issue of the flaw, then the very real fact (all the good will in the world notwithstanding) is that people will be less inclined to purchase from the company in future ... along the lines of that American saying, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

I'm very keen to see how this situation develops and how Bambicrony responds. I truly was very pleased with their customer service, and I absolutely adore my blue, as-yet-unyellowed elf.

Lisa

 

Blue pigments are testy. If one has ever been to an art museum, one may notice that many of the paintings that were very blue in their glory aren't nearly as blue now, as you have noticed with your drawing as well. I never painted with much blue anyway, and after I discovered this, I did even less.

I imagine that the yellowing of these dolls is a combination of factors including the nature of blue pigments, the nature of French resin, and possibly the nature of two sensitive materials being combined for an object. It should have been expressed that the dolls were made with French resin if it wasn't stated.

But really, at the risk of sounding too snarky, this was also more or less an "experimental" line of dolls with the fantasy colors, and while they ARE expensive, diving into any purchase of an "experimental" item in the end is really at the risk of the buyer. While we all want quality products there is absolutely nothing to guarantee we're going to always get a perfect doll. It doesn't happen with other purchases in life, it doesn't happen with dolls, and it doesn't happen with art, so no matter how you view your dolls, unfortunately, there's no absolute true outcome. I find it very unfortunate when anyone is unhappy with their doll, but it is a genuine risk of the hobby that a product won't live up the standards of everyone.

 

Kim: I think the problem with the Colored Elf dolls was Bambicrony was trying a new sales approach with them. They were very mysterious about the resin they posted pictures weeks before trying to be all mysterious about them. I specifically asked questions on the resin and so did Treelore. When I first asked they didn't call it French Resin just gave descriptions on it being translucent , colorfast, etc, which I posted in in the colored elf discussion thread. They later told Treelore that it was French Resin. Probably because Treelore asked specifically if it was. A lot of people like French resin for it's translucence. Unfortunately if you are new to the resin doll hobby most people don't know about yellowing problem. It's a case of bad English and possible ignorance on their part.
Pictures of the dolls on the site doesn't look like regular resin they did look a bit translucent. Since it was a new product I bombarded them with questions before buying my doll.

The problem here is they decided to brand the French resin "Mistyblue", "Mistyrose", "Light Slate Grey" similar to a US company calling if "Lumicast"

Wee_Little_Faerie: I read that as if they were available again it would be limited or a fullset not part of the standard line.

Personally love that this forum exists to discuss and sometimes to vent. I've done it myself. I really vented when they changed the description of the fullsets 20 minutes before the actual sale stating the props were not included

Any new type product is iffy. There was a batch of barbies made early on that they were experimenting with a new type of plastic. That doll 20 years later is leaching out carcinogenic material

 

I just figured that since they were never Basic Line to begin with, that just meant they wouldn't be selling these colors again, they would be removed from sale in general. Especially with all of the mentioning of them developing new colors.

and bagofspiders, I really feel that at these prices, they should have been testing their product, and been open and honest with everyone about what kind of resin they were using... it really isn't the buyers responsibility to accept risk on these kinds of things. The company *SHOULD* know how their product is going to react to things like everyday amounts of sunlight, before selling them.

Now, if everyone had known, pre-purchasing that they were made of an unstable french resin that hadn't been tested... then yes, it would have been their choice in taking that risk... but they didn't know that, so people who are disappointed, in my opinion, have every right to be.

I'm personally still extremely happy with my elf... but I'm not going to sit here and tell people who are worried about theirs that they're being unfair to a company that just sold them a $400 specifically colored elf that they only gave them a month to decide to purchase and didn't disclose all of the information about the dolls which *DOES* make a difference when it comes to how colorfast they are... and seeing as how the tans were made of non-french resin, I think it's easy to see how a lot of people didn't even consider the option of them being french resin, since BC hadn't sold a colored doll made of that before.

 

Well... shouldn't they? I mean, I think if most people, in the future, were to buy a fantasy color from them, they'd like to know that the color was at least going to stick around longer than 3 weeks.

 

Wee_Little_Faerie: I agree with you that with the prices of this doll they should have tested the product before release. Also every doll should have come with the sunlight exposure warning not just the fullsets. Unfortunately we are putting American expectations on an Asian company. This is not a defense of the company just my bit of frustration on how this could have happened.

I personally think that they should have done one color at a time and made sure that each color was stable and could be produced with uniform color batches. The problem with Bambicrony at times is they are over eager to please all the customers which sadly sometimes backfires on them and the customer.

 

I am interested to see how you would ideally like them to address the issue of the 'flaw'? Would a warning that colored resins are especially prone to yellowing in direct sunlight work? It seems like there is only one report of one person experiencing this yellowing (not to minimize it to that person or to anyone). How many would have to be affected before, say, a recall were issued? If there were a recall, and they offered to replace your colored elf with a standard color, would you take it?

Come to think of it, what was the result of the tan Kiss doll turning distinctly green in sunlight? Other than a lot of tan doll owners becoming obsessive about keeping their dolls out of direct sunlight. I know the person ended up re-selling it but I don't remember how it ended up affecting the company. Do they still make tan dolls?

I guess I just have a stronger personal sense of of caveat emptor (especially when dealing with foreign companies and new resins) than most.

I really hope they still come out with the new colors they were hinting at.

H

 

The company that sold it (Dollmore) ended up replacing it with another one Tan Kiss for the price of a face-up and shipping. Although I believe she ended up selling that one too, cause it wasn't the same. -_-; I do believe that Dolkot still sells tanned dolls though.

 

Is there any indication that it won't? I mean, other than the one in direct sunlight which we know from other circumstances to be exceptionally damaging to colored resin? I rather feel as if we're jumping to conclusions that aren't really supported by the evidence. Maybe there should be a warning with the dolls that colored resin is more unstable than non-colored resin. However, I was already aware of that fact. I guess I just assumed everyone was.

H

 

I'm not denying that should be testing their product AT ALL, or any of what you've said. I'd like to think there were many prototypes created and this very yellowed doll was somehow an unfortunate fluke and not the ultimate fate for all of the Misty Blues. All I'm saying is that there IS a risk. Any time a person spends this much money, it is a risk. I expect quality when I buy a doll, too. I think it completely sucks that people got dolls they weren't happy with, but I think every doll we buy does carry the risk of arriving with something wrong, be it something like drastic yellowing, or a really crappy body design, or even broken parts. It is to some small, unfortunate degree, the nature of the beast. We are buying dolls from people who don't always speak English as a first language, and different countries and companies have different standards of conduct in a business transaction. It is nice to think the buyer is being protected, but it doesn't always work out like that. In this case I strongly feel the company should have stated they were using French resin because at least people could have discussed what this material potentially meant for the future integrity of the doll BEFORE they put down the money. This situation could really impact BC's future sales and the level of trust from buyers. I'm not excusing what happened. I find the entire thing rather unfortunate for anyone who isn't satisfied. There wasn't much time to know how these dolls would fare before the chance was lost.

 

Does anyone know what French resin is? Is French resin POLYESTER resin?

Is the following information correct?

Polyester resins cannot take additives or color well. They are cheap and highly dangerous to work with in raw or finished form (special care should be taken to wear protective gear when sanding parts). It takes longer to cure than polyester resins.

Polyurethane resins can take additives (especially UV) well and colors. Polyurethane resins cure quicker than other types of resins.

So, perhaps to save costs, dolls are being made in China in POLYESTER resin, since is is so cheap?

Does anyone know what the finished product differences look like? A smooth, shiny finish as opposed to a grainier finish?

 

MINE is yellowing... which I stated in earlier posts, and mine has not been exposed to long hours of direct sunlight.

 

Seeing as how mine is also yellowing at the elbows... I'm going to have to go ahead and say that I highly doubt that these instances are complete flukes.

I still love mine, I'm not getting rid of it, but I really do think that yellowing quickly is the nature of the beast... and if yellowing takes place in less than a month, it also leads me to highly doubt that they bothered to test the resin in sunlight at all.

 

It's neither a smooth "shiny" finish nor grainy finish. The resin is smooth and has a frosted look not shiny. You can make it shinny though if you buffed.

French Resin is not cheap resin it actually is a rather expensive resin that has a translucent finish. These dolls are made in Korea by a 7 person company not China. Bambicrony even stated that the resin used for this doll costs 5 times more than normal resin.

My two cents on the French resin is that like a lot of "luxury" items it's high maintenance. Sometimes the more expensive something is the more maintenance it has. For example a $3000-$10000 oyster perpetual rolex needs maintenance every 5 or so years to keep good time. This means you take your rolex to an authorized retailer or Rolex itself who sends the watch back to Switzerland to be completely disasembled, it is ultrasonically cleaned, worn parts are replaced, it is reassembled and checked for good time then sent back to you 2-3 weeks later. This costs $300-$500. Meanwhile a $50 watch you just take to the jewelers to replace the battery for $5-$15 or just buy new in 5 years.

 

But you can't send the doll back to be "re-colored". You can only "buy another one". (Assuming they are even in stock.)

Not to mention, I would assume the Rolex retailer would give you instruction on all of that ahead of time.

 

I noticed (before this thread was up) that my blue (aka green) Kumi was starting to look a tiny bit more yellowish green - but I thought it was either me - or that she was getting too much daylight. But after taking off her clothes this weekend (after reading this thread) - I don't think it's the daylight for mine - because it's an even color change as far as I can tell.

I don't personally mind. I think she's turning into a martian elf - and I'm all for that. I'll try to get some pics of her on Wednesday when I'm home in daylight (color is more obvious in natural light).

I don't have a comment on how Bambicrony should/should not handle this. I just wanted to say that I've noticed the color change too.