New Chinese Piracy

unoas are nearer 700-800$ second hand

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Last I'd checked they were much less. My mistake!

 

and unoa's standard price now is about 550 or more due to the exchange rate..... so actually (as bad as this sounds) the copy price is still a "deal" in that it's 200$ less....

for the dion - i wonder if they got a first edition dion - because the azure i won (he was made at the same time) doesn't have the red tag in his head i don't think.... (correct me if i'm wrong, it's been awhile since i took a look)

 

It's true that I only buy dolls with original faceup (without blemish) and if it's a full set doll, I'd get the original outfit, wig and box as well. I'm picky with such things. Even if you modify the faceup or do your own, the company emblem and markings should authenticate the doll. Many BJD collectors enjoy the custom faceups, so company markings on the doll becomes important. I am not interested in certificates of authenticity or birth certificates because these days with a powerful scanners, printers etc, printing those papers is easy. The box is more important but hey, we are buying the doll, not the box, so I always check the doll first. I buy from the secondary market, so this type of news cause panic. I'm thinking of getting Howl. I got freaked out yesterday when I mistakenly thought the original is marked like the copy. The pricing is puzzling. It's high for a copy.

About UNOA, I don't know much about it. The doll I saw in person during a doll meet was very beautiful, slim body. Don't know if her makeup is original.

 

well, i know that with the Senior Delf dolls, ALL of them have a special signature plate in the inside of the head. If you buy a doll brand new from a company and it doesn' thave that, it's safe to assume it's not an original. Although, i did lose my plate like the day after i got my Abadon I meant to glue it back in, but lost it before i could do so.

 

I doubt if anyone who has been in this hobby for any length of time would knowingly buy a knock-off doll. If you see a doll that is an incredible bargain, then for me a red flag would go up immediately.
The sad thing is new people who don't realize they are buying a fake because they don't know enough to recognize one. It can also be hard to tell from a photograph that the resin is poor quality, etc., although when I have seen links to pirated dolls on ebay, the face-ups have looked pretty bad.
I saw a post one time from someone who was new who found out after the fact that they had bought a pirated doll. Basically, they had just thrown away all that money- obviously, these companies are not going to refund your money.

 

That's the problem with these... The unoa that someone had posted a picture of was extremely close, and in the side-by side picture the only difference was the resin colour, which could be easily disguised with lighting. And those were clear pictures...
I know several people were saying you can tell a pirated doll by a bad or non-company face up, but that's just not true. I mean, a lot of people get a doll without face-ups intending on doing it themselves or sending it to a customizer. And let's admit it, the resulting quality isn't always the best.
There's also the fact that face-ups aren't permenent and even a company face-up will eventually need to be re-done, again with the same problem.
Also, Araki has published multiple tutorials showing exactly how he does the Unoa face-ups (and in fact the vast majority of Unoas come without them) so if someone really wanted they could use his exact method and come up with something very simmilar.

So, I would say that quality or presence of a face-up is right out as a means of telling if a doll is pirated or not.

 

Izam has 1st edition Dion and he has a red Luts Emblem in his head (see a few posts earlier)

Just to clarify both of the counterfeits are being sold cheaper than the original. Dion is not priced at $300USD for the head. Unoa is the the one that is $300 USD, Dion is about $57 USD.

 

This makes me really sad, since both of my dolls are limited dolls, and many of my planned ones are as well.

 

I really hope that information about knock-off recast companies like this get spread around enough so that people new to the hobby won't be caught unaware and wind up with a fake doll by accident.

 

how do we protect ourselves from being ripped off? :&

 

You don't buy from someone openly bragging that they are making copies.

 

ugggg. This just made the second-hand market a bit more hazardous (maybe). I only do transactions on DoA, and it's where I got my first doll from. I've got a second, but none of them came with papers. I'm already very cautious about buying dolls who have lost their headplate, but from here on out I'm only going to use DoA and the original doll sites (or junkyspot or DDE).

It's very unfortunate that this is happening, and it makes me sick. It's horrible that nothing can really be done legally. I just hope that not that many people actually purchase them so maybe the outbreak will only be local. (ugg.. I feel like I am talking about the spread of an epidemic.)

 

I really hate hearing about pirating in the bjd community. I think the bjd hobby is already very small compared to other hobbies (video games, old war miniatures, anime, etc), so these copies hurt us, especially since these dolls cost so much.

And I hate hearing about pirating from China in general because it gives all Chinese a bad name....this is off topic, but can anyone tell me why China doesn't recognize copyright?? If this is too off topic, just PM me.

 

I was goig to say, reguarding casting and getting and EXACT cast.. How do you think our dolls are made? Each sculpted by hand? no. they are sculpted then cast out of molds just as these copys are.

And cast....
and cast.......
and cast...........

Untill the mold is made unuseable.

So to say a pirated cast would be of shotty detail may not be fully correct. Indeed, look at the two that have surfaced so far. they are very spot on. Which is VERY troubleing to me.

So this 'measuring' In micometers etc etc just strikes me as useless>

Lets say we took 50 CP Els from 2008 and micromeasured everything the ones that came from the same molds would have the same measurements, same features, same blemishes etc etc.
Why? because they were cast from the same mold.
And if someone goes and casts their own with a good enough silicon mold cast, it'll be just as good as the original that Luts did.
Because thats how casts are made.

Anything scratched in or imprinted or painted on can be copyed as well. name plates etc might be a bit trickyer to copy, as we can see with Dion there, but im sure they wont be far off

If the pirate does it right, gets a good resin, a good solid mold, even side by side it might be impossible to tell. (unless you KNOW and buy it from 'companys' like this that state they are fakes)

It's a sad fact, and truely, all we can do Is support the major legitimate companys we know and love, refuse to buy bootlegged dolls, educate those that dont know about it, spread the word, keep the real companys informed and yeah, pretty much all you lovelys here have been doing so far Kudos to you all

My biggest fear is 'companys' dong this crap will put off the legitimate companys from creating new and amazing dolls. Look at the Mr Dollshe incident :\


Ok.. *hops off soapbox*

 

The $300 quoted was including the service fees and shipping to Australia, I paid (I think from memory) $750 plus shipping for my Unoa and she was a great price at the time. Even with the lesser prices through the pre-orders which run around $550 atm they are still expensive and a beautiful piece of art... I was literally horrifed not only at the price being so low but that the agent said that buying a disclosed counterfeit was my responsibility not theirs. So if in doubt ask, the agents HAVE to tell you if its declared as couterfeit. If its not then well... your screwed to put it politely.

The only way to arm ourselves against this sort of stuff is to buy from reputable sellers... even if dolls are second hand I doubt anyone would have the b*lls to try and sell a fake on DoA, but on e-bay I wont be risking it unless its linked to here..... OR its from a seller that the company can verify as a licensed dealer.

I dont think your question is off topic and I for one despite a fair bit of research have yet to come up with an answer... It seems to be a bit of a grey-area. If anyone can shed some light on this I know I'd appreciate it too....

Also regarding the Unoa face-ups - getting one with an authentic Gento Araki face-up is as rare as hens-teeth and I've only seen a miniscule handfull of them myself, what is so attractive about a Unoa IMO is that in a way you buy the doll to create it yourself they do come in kit-form unsanded and needing a lot of effort to make them whole - AND the face-up creation is an integral part of that experience. The seller on Taobao (selling the fake Puki Rose and Unoa Lusis) states in the auction he does not paint the dolls at all, they are all blank and unassembled. There is no-way known that anyone in their right frame of mind would buy a "second hand" or even "new" Puki unstrung.

 

I've been reading some older posts here and it's great to hear that the doll companies are notifying their customers.

Does anyone know if DOD's been a victim yet? I'd like to think that they haven't been, since I would like to buy from them again in the future.

 

I hope this isn't off topic but I'd love to know what everyone thinks about a doll company that was making their own dolls in the past but now is apparently farming out the manufacture of their dolls to China....and still putting their original name on the doll. Does it matter to anyone that their doll wasn't made at the company they believed it was?

 

Well, if you're buying directly from the company, it doesn't really matter if they're a "victim," since you know for sure you won't be getting a copy from DOD themselves..

That sounds more like outsourcing, which a lot of (non-doll) companies do.

ETA: What I mean is, as long as the company is the one designing and sculpting the doll, I don't mind if they hire someone else to do the actual casting while still putting their name on it.

 

i'm a bit confused by your question.

Do you seriously believe that all company's cast their own dolls?
Because ..no they don't.
Tho i do sometimes feel like some company's should lower their prices now they moved to chinese casting services because they are cheaper,
but they don't.
Makes me feel a bit cheated.

And, i do not mind companies sending their dolls to what ever casting service company. Because they are often better casted dolls.
Because these companies are specialized in it.
Doll companies should be busy Designing dolls and clothing,
doing faceups and making sure their customer service is good.

So no,
doesn't bother me at all as long as the resin is good quality and the company oesn't over charge.