New Chinese Piracy

Except that there are a number of Chinese companies whose starts were legitimate. There's a lot more than just one or two Chinese companies out there now, so it seems like a rather odd thing to bring up.

 

What I actually said was that because there is variation in BJDs produced by legitimate companies it would be difficult or impossible to tell a legitimate from a bootleg based on colour or weight (if you are judging it only from sales pictures.) You could have a 2005 Delf El sitting next to a 2007 Delf El and there would be a difference in colour, texture and probably weight too. Both are legitimate dolls sold by Luts, but they look and feel different because the resin formula has changed a number of times.

Also, as Taco said, people don't buy BJDs in person, so these qualities don't make a difference when someone is trying to decide if a doll is legitimate or a bootleg. Of course bootleg dolls are not the same as legitimate dolls, often the resin quality is very low (and could be toxic), and you'd be able to tell very well which is which if you sat a copy next to a 'real' doll...but it's not something that will come across if all you've seen are pictures on eBay.

I agree to a point. There are certain companies I will never buy from, but that says just as much about their earlier illegitimate work as it does about their current legitimate dolls. Just not my style.

 

Indeed... yes, I know Dollzone's past, and I understand the idea of not wanting to buy from them based on that. It makes complete sense... For some, making a bootleg was enough for them to decide never to buy from that company again. For others, the fact that they discontinued the sculpt and began producing original dolls is enough for those people to give the company a second chance. Personally, I'm really not sure where I stand on that issue, since I can see both sides.

But what about Angel of Dream? Bobobie/Resinsoul? Dragondoll? Like Taco said, there are a number of Chinese companies who never had an illegitimate start at all, compared to the one instance of Dollzone.

 

Hmm maybe they dont know that they be sued?

 

OMG, are people still harping on that Dollzone stuff? Isn't it about time we put that in the past and stopped acting like it's an ongoing problem with that company. Their sculpts have been distinct and unique for years now - more unique than some of the other companies I've been seeing crop of of late that's for sure.

 

It's only just been brought up, actually, and it was being discussed in a mature and rational way. It's a factual part of DollZone's past that won't be erased and it's up to individual buyers how they feel about it.

 

Okay....The point I was trying to make is that the Chinese companies should ALL not have to be penalized forever because some of them have had dubious dealings at some earlier time. As I said in that earlier post...I remember (because I'm really old) in the 1950's, after WWII, Japan was knocking off everything....so it became more or less a joke when someone would say "It's imported...it's from Japan", because that just meant it was cheap and poorly made.Taco had reiterated the point about the early history of Japanese manufacturing problems....and was able to fully explain the reasons why that had happened in a clearer way than I was able to do.
I, personally, could absolutely be fooled by a picture of a doll online....because, by my own admission...I am not as well schooled on these dolls as the rest of you on this forum...I'm just learning. However...I would NOT be fooled by something in my own specific area of expertise UNLESS the company showing the photo was using an illegally obtained stock photo of the authentic article for the sole purpose of misleading the buyer....which is the situation I eluded to when we were hypothetically discussing the responsibility of ebay and paypal, That is the experience that had happened to me, in which paypal had reimbursed me.
I did NOT say that ALL people that buy bootlegs are'wannabes', what I said was that many are.While there are people who have unfortunate dealings because they are misled...There is absolutely a consumer who seeks out bootlegs and doesn't care about quality or resale value....just wants to look as though they have that item. I was on Yahoo Answers last night and there was the question "Where can I get a bootleg bjd? They're too expensive, so I don;t care....I just want one" (I'm not sure about the specific phraseology) And the winning answer was..."Hello, my name is Chris Hansen and your going to be arrested for buying pirated merchandise"...something like that ...it was funny.
As for 'piggybacking'? I'd hardly call it 'piggybacking' since I had made those points very early in the discussion, I just may not have explained myself as well as I'd hoped .
I do love a healthy debate....anyone want to discuss Roswell or the Kennedy assassination next?

 

Hey toomuchmom.. I get you now. Thanks for explaining. Also, piggybacking it fun, I would love it if someone would post something now that explains everything spinning around in my mind. God it is busy in there, someone help me!

I never said I would penalized "ALL Chinese companies forrreeevveeerrrrr." LOL. I just said that in the current market I will not buy from there. I have already explained why in my other posts so I won't bore you with my ramblings.

AND yea I would love to talk about the Kennedy Debate with my doll friends. I think we need to start a new thread though But not in the gallery section ok

 

Why would they do something like that? I guess now we all have to watch ourselves.

 

I've seen a person trying to sell a Volks SD13 doll with heeled feet? The only heeled feet Volks bodies I've seen were a knockoff sold on ebay. I'm guessing the person bought a body, matched a head and is trying to sell the whole as a genuine Volks doll. Without the heeled feet, it would probably be hard to pick. Admittedly she may have SD16 heeled feet on SD13 body but I doubt it. I've seen a variety of dolls advertised from different companies. Most don't hang around for long which tends to make me query their quality. The reality is that without documentation, it's hard to be certain with secondhand dolls. I haven't been overly careful about keeping my documentation in the past although I'm getting better. I think a lot of the resale prices for the dolls tempts the pirate companies. I'd rather buy from a known company as you get feedback on DoA regarding resin, handling of customer complaints etc.

 

Err... Volks does make High-heel feet for their SD-13 dolls... Or are they a fused joint?

 

Volks has made high heel feet for many years, the original SD13 girls came with high heel feet. I'm interested about what well known knock off actually copied SD13 girls? I haven't heard about that.

 

I don't know if its forbidden to say the name or not, I mean after all its listed in the banned companies/dolls thread..

Laura's Dream Doll and the Sunrisedollfie company are well known (and still selling on ebay) for recasting the Volks SD13 girl body, as well as several head sculpts of both boy and girl Volks.

That was back when $400 for an SD size was unheard of, before legitimate chinese companies started popping up. They were red flagged and got nailed pretty quick, but apparently our cries of copying never fully did them in.

They currently sell a pair of SD13 high heel feet that definately don't look like the real Volks feet, though could be a heat-altered recast of flat feet, at least that's what they look like to me.

The main characteristic that flags the LDDoll bodies for me are the hands. They're either a poor recast, a mod-job recast, or an original work. They're definately not the regular Volks hands.

 

If the doll does have SD16 feet that would be extremely easy to spot. SD16 heeled feet are a single foot+lower leg piece which joins the leg at the knee, the feet aren't jointed.

Volks do make heeled feet, but I thought they were only available through FCS.

 

Interesting. I only knew about Forever Doll and the various "suspected" Yukinojo/SD17 recasts.

Anyway about the high heeled feet, all the oldskin SD13 girl standards had it as well. So it only became rare with Pure skin.

 

Volks makes high heeled feet with an ankle joint for SD13 girls that is available only thru FCS. Volks SD16 girls come with extra lower legs (that can be switched out) that have a fused heel.

 

Ah, I knew about the fact that the sd-13 feet are a sepparate foot, and the sd-16's having the fused joint. I was just asking about the particular type on the suspected false doll.

 

This has been an interesting - and lengthy - thread to peruse. I just wanted to add a point or two, fwiw.

What causes me to wonder a little is the reaction people have to the piracy. "Shocking, tragic, awful... and the many variations of how can someone do this?" I'm sorry people but wake up and smell the coffee - we live in a world where children are sold as sex toys every day. And it has always been thus. If you are shocked by a bootleg doll then you have little grasp of the world YOU live in. There is an awful lot of evil out there, and if you want to understand it then pay attention to your Shakespeare and other writers who have tried to unravel the nature of evil (as well as other human attributes) throughout the centuries. Don't shake your head and worry that you just don't feel safe. You aren't! Learn to pay attention, think, live an aware life - trust those who earn it - trust is a fragile and precious thing - value it.

I'm sorry to hear the Chinese members of the board sound so ashamed. Evil (which mostly is rooted in selfishness) is not limited to any country. It exists everywhere. You are not responsible for what your countrymen do. Hec, I'm Canadian - I hear my compatriots say stupid things ALL the time - I don't feel responsible at all.

 

*sigh* why must they do things like this that drags the whole nation down with them?
after reading most of the comments made, i just don't want to say anything. i understand very well that this is the rality, however this still disappoints me.
that's why i like to say "i come from Hong kong, NOT china"
some chinese companies are great, like Angell studio and AbioAngel or Angel of dream, but still, some people have already lost the trust towards chinese companies. =(

 

Yeah but they don't advertise it so proudly and blatantly. If you're going to be a criminal, you've got to have some tact.
Anyway, just because one crime is really horrible, that doesn't mean people can't be outraged at lesser crimes. Leaching off of other people's hard work is still a pretty bad crime that can cause a lot of problems for a lot of people.