Only allowing yourself to buy "cheaper" dolls?

Actually, the question was relevant to the statements she made regarding the relationship of price and quality, and her own insistence on avoiding mediocrity. But thank you for being so helpful.

 

I agree with these sentiments. I always thought that people should just buy what they want, but it seems like a lot of the time an owner will say not just "I love this sculpt" but "and it was cheaper than XXX, too!" Unwillingness to save up for a more pricey product also extends to unwillingness to spend money on it in other ways, which is fine... but on a forum like this which is all about showing off and sharing our dolls, it becomes one long boring stream of, as Armeleia put it, dolls dressed in socks with bad faceups on someone's computer desk with photos taken by a cellphone camera. The cause/effect bridge here is effort. Less effort to save up for the doll, less effort put into presenting it. I don't think it's necessarily a question of the hobby being more exclusive in the past, so much as the standards bar being lowered once the dolls are more accessible.

I'm also unhappy with how defensive owner of cheaper dolls are. Every time I look up any kind of review for a company, all I get is "they pose great, they feel great, etc etc" There's very little input from those who have handled a number of dolls and can do objective comparisons. I've handled a number of them and I'm 100% convinced that you get what you pay for. No question. I still shop at a variety of doll stores but there's a line past which I will not dip because it's not worth it. I wish more people would admit that.

 

I wouldn't correlate posing quality with brand either. I consider some of the bigger companies as having manufactured what are now considered "cheap" bodies because they have such horrible posing.

I think the problem here is that you can't really mention anything under this topic in broad, sweeping terms, because the issue is buying cheap dolls, not buying from cheap companies... so it's pretty hard to lump one brand of doll all together and say "They're GREAT!" or "They SUCK!"

The whole industry has to constantly improve if it wants to stay competitive which generally means older models from all companies are probably going to be worse and, assuming we're talking about regular releases and NOT limiteds, cheaper.

 

Bambicrony's recent colored elves are certainly a Buyer Beware issue.

As far as resin shifting, I don't consider yellowing a factor in "poor resin quality" seeing as how all resin yellows, no matter how fantastic it is.

However, I was disappointed in how quickly the color changed in the colored elves, but all of their other dolls that I have seen and owned have had no resin quality issues, pre-colored elves, so I didn't consider that they would change so drastically, so quickly. From here on out I doubt I would buy a colored anything straight from their company though.

They, as a sculpt, though, are still excellently crafted, and still not a doll I consider "cheap", just not researched enough.

 

Agreed. Completely. (And, yeah... If they're strung too tight, unsueded and un-wired, CPs can be pretty vicious little brutes. I've been kicked a few times, myself. I also got punched in the nose by my Hound. o_O)

Basically, a less expensive price-tag doesn't necessarily have to mean "bad resin" or "bad engineering". It could just as easily be an issue of, as other have mentioned, less refined sculpts (either produced more quickly or by less experienced artists-) or simply lower labor costs in the country of origin.

Just as an example, the cheap bods that I'm most familiar with (the Fantasy Doll bodies), turned out to be surprisingly nice, as I said up-thread... In most ways, they really are comparable to my CPs. 'Good, matte resin with a nice texture and heft, decent posing ability, no color or casting irregularities, and a sculpt that, though not as finely detailed as a CPs, is still attractive enough not to look out of place standing next to its pricier counter-parts.

So... "cheap" doesn't necessarily mean "shoddy" in all cases. Sometimes "cheap" just means "made somewhere with lower production costs" or "made by someone with lower over-head and less brand recognition".

 

In all honesty, my "cheapest" mini is my best one. He is a Dollzone Mo and his posing is superb, his resin is incredibly strong, and his sculpt has massive personality. When I go out, he is the doll that draws people's attention.

When I hear people say things like "there's no way someone could ever has wanted a DZ because they like the sculpt" I am furious! Maybe you don't like their sculpts, but the great thing about these dolls is that there sculpts to suit anyone's palette. Some people think daisies are ugly and dull and some people think they are the most beautiful flowers of all.

Out of all my dolls from various sizes and companies (including CP, Volks, OD, AR, LD, and DZ), my DZ is the doll I spend the most time with and am most proud of. Not because he was "cheap," but because he is so unique and his resin is so strong.

I feel that posing and cost have absolutely nothing to do with each other either. As I said, my DZ poses the best of all my dolls. My MNF is my most expensive mini and he poses the worst. My friend's DZ BB poses far better than my Volks YoSD. My AR LF is a wonderful poser as well.

As far as SD and larger go, I have handled my friend's Delf and 70cm DZ. You can stand the DZ on a table and wander off for hours and he won't move. The Delf on the other hand...

Honestly, Brightfire's last line is right on the money.

 

To me it all depends on the mold. I could care less about the price. I spent $430 on my MnF Shiwoo and then $100 on Butterfly's head and $172 for his body because I wanted a taller MSD body, so I got the DZ 1/4. =^w^=

I'm also eyeballing Bobobie Elena, who's only $178 and a Dollshe Husky, who's $600. XD

 

A lot of the defensiveness I believe comes from reading and being told that said doll is ugly, and poorly made repetitively. When you love something you naturally feel the need to stand up for it right? To be honest just focusing on my own experiences with it I’ve come to a point where I love him because I think he’s beautiful. I enjoy looking at him, and doing stuff with him but have absolutely no desire to share him with anyone anymore just due to reaction (or even at times disgust) of others within this hobby.

As for the topic at hand I have two different viewpoints about it. The first of course, like many others, is get what you want if its possible. Get one that you will adore and cherish for as long as you have it, don’t settle just to have a doll. I’m not entirely against the idea of getting a less expensive doll first, I mean even a MSD is relatively inexpensive by comparison to getting one that’s like $700.00+ dollars. I think the big thing with this is that you do indeed want the doll you are getting and not just grabbing one, I don’t think it should matter other then that.

The second viewpoint comes from those who do not make as much money but have a love for the dolls. To some people even two hundred dollars is a huge amount of money when they only spend twenty dollars a week on food or some such. I think in this case it is fine to limit yourself in some ways as to how much you want to spend over all per doll as long as you are still getting something you will love. I will clarify that I do not think that people should parade a doll around all over the place if they didn’t take the time to dress it or make it look nice but I don’t think that is remotely an issue of what brand doll it is. The lowering of standards is just people not taking the time or making more of an effort to say… learn techniques to paint, or sew.

 

There are some good reviews if you go look for them. The problem is, short of major issues, a lot comes down to personal opinion. Some people prefer the resin of company A to company B; some people can't get company A's dolls to do more than flop, while someone else can get company A's doll to stand on one foot. Some people like really smooth resin some people like it to have more of a tooth to it. What's high quality to one person may not fit another person's ideal. It may not be that owners are ignoring quality issues--they just don't see problems where you see problems.

I have dolls from a number of different companies and have handled friends' dolls as well, and I don't see differences that equal a huge dip in quality so much as they all have their strengths and weaknesses, and what I like may completely turn somebody else off. I'm very impressed with both my Bobobie and AOD as well as my Uni Limited and Serendipity 58cm body--but not all for the same reasons.

 

Ok, I normally don't post in the debate threads, but this one I just can't seem to stay out of - may because some comments are coming across as slightly disheartening.

Now, I firmly believe that owners should save up and get the doll they love. I first became interested in this hobby back in 2004 (I believe). I had the opportunity to buy a doll I fell in love with at retail, but couldn't justify the price. I waited over a year after that to finally buy my first doll (different gender & company all together!). Now, 1 1/2 years later, I'm saving up to buy the first doll I fell in love with. I have only parted with 1 doll I've bought, and that was just because I didn't do anything with her - she was just too small.

I have dolls from several different companies, and they range quite widely in price. 2 of my dolls are Dollzone dolls, and I absolutely adore them (my Felian is sitting in my lap as I type this). There are dolls from other companies that are much more expensive, and much more sought after, that I really am not fond of (ie: Bermann), but I'm not going to berate anyone for having 1 or 10 of them. They're just not dolls I would buy.

In regards to quality, I will admit I was quite surprised at the quality of DZ dolls. I did not expect the resin, or the body sculpts, to be as nice as they are.

And to those who are nervous about talking to other owners who have differently priced dolls (either more expensive or less expensive) - don't be! XD One of my really good friends has nearly all Volks dolls - I get the opportunity to play with and admire her Volks dolls while she has the opportunity to play with and admire other dolls. I personally find it quite humorous that she tends to do more with my DoD Too than any of my others, and he has the WORST posing of any of my dolls! Some of my other friends own other dolls that I wouldn't dream of owning, as well. But I love to see their dolls and have them visit!

And as far as why some comments have been disheartening, its because I did not get the Dollzones based on their price. I saw the dolls and became obsessed with their sculpts (you can even ask my boyfriend! lol). It frustrates me to see people thinking that all Chinese BJD owners bought them for their price. It's also kind of sad to see doll owners afraid to talk to other doll owners because they "might" be an "elitist" (and by elitist, I'm not speaking of just the supposed Volks elitism - it can be any company). Yes, there may be people in the hobby you may not get along with, but that's true in any hobby - any group of people really.

Just my $0.02 anyway.

 

i deffinately agree with what was said here.

i am sick of seeing poor quality dolls. i think they are a bad representation of asian ball joint dolls. theres a wonderful little saying we have in tattooing-
good tattoos arent cheap, cheap tattoos arent good. i.e- you get what you pay for.

i have picked up, handled and owned hundreds of dolls. I like alot of companies, and i dont like even more. this doesnt mean i know about every single company out there. however some companies i feel they have neglected the quality of their dolls therefor the price is lower.

however in the case of a dollmore hiwai i think thats how you spell her name, but she was beautiful. she had wonderful resin, a great default face up and posed beautifully.
but i have seen dollmore dolls i dont like, aswell as dollzones, angel reigons, and domuya.
but not every high priced doll is all that its cracked up to be- for instance my spring stroll liz that i waited for ever for came with a very shoddy face up. if it werent for the head mold i would have just sold her, but i waited for liz for a very long time.
there are also alot of good companies out there too, unidoll, luts and volks of course, dream of doll, iplehouse, ect.
not everyone is listed but hey its just my personal experience.

now do i think that its right to limit yourself to just cheaper dolls?

no i dont, i think you would much greatly appreciate a doll that you worked long and hard to get. you would also appreciate that doll alot more. quality versus quantity. if youd rather waste your money on cheap crap then be my guest.

i dont waste money on dolls, i buy what i want when i want it. no if's and's or but's. i work extremely hard for everything i have. i work 12+ hours a day, and i make my money with my own hands. with as hard as i work i buy exactly what i want. now if i buy a doll because i have the money and i think ill like it, i will buy it, if i dont like the doll when it comes home ill sell it shortly there after. granted some times theres a doll that i really want such as a madoka, that yes i am going to save the money and buy that doll because i really love her. am i really going to drop 2-3 thousand dollars just to have her? YES! you live once spoil yourself.
if you dont have the expenadable income then save your money and buy what you really want. wether it be a dollzone megi or luts woosoo or avolks momoko

 

The only dolls I can afford are cheaper. But even if I could afford some more expensive ones, I would still buy FDoll Ninette I'm currently saving for. When I saw that site and looked the dolls I saw her and tought that she is the perfect one and then I looked at the price and was so happy that I can afford a doll that looks so perfect for me. I don't think that price is the thing that matters. I love her mold and would do everything to get her, not some more expensive doll.

 

A thought occurred. When cheaper dolls are produced and bought by quite a number of people, what most of the others think is that people aren't saving up for a more expensive doll that they want. They're buying these dolls because it's cheaper. Not such an unbelievable thing because one of the major differences is the lower price for these dolls.

But here's the thing. We can't divine what other people are thinking. What about CP Els? When so many people buy that particular sculpt, one possibility could be because it's so popular that it's almost a fad to own one. Or Bermanns; people might buy it just because they're jumping on a bandwagon of frenzied want for that doll. Or Tsukasas. It's not totally unbelievable that some people buy that because they just want something that's more unattainable. How many people have bought all these dolls and sold them quickly? For someone who don't like these sculpts, it might be hard to believe that people actually bought the doll for the sculpt itself and not for the other named reasons.

Basically, what I'm saying is that sometimes, we get too caught up by our own view of things. We might look at a doll and think, "That's so ugly, the only reason why people might want to buy it is because of the low price." Or in that same vein, "That's so ugly/boring/anorexic, the only reason why people might want to buy it is because they're jumping on the bandwagon/they want the elitist feeling of owning a super rare doll." In the end, our judgment is coloured by our own preference.

(Edit to add: I'm not saying that there are no one who will buy cheaper dolls just because it is cheaper. But I am saying that there might be very much less people buying the cheaper dolls for this very reason. It's just hard for us to see otherwise.)

Buy the doll you like. And let others buy the dolls they like. You will choose a doll based on your own set of criteria and others will choose theirs based on their own set of criteria that is possibly entirely different from yours.

 

Totally agreeing with all this. As I've noticed before, I think people are putting their own expectations of this hobby on others and that leads to false assumptions and frustrations. The problem is definitely when people let other people's choices influence them. It's hard with such a tight community in some ways, but that does lead to problems with defensiveness, impulsiveness, and the whole "oh no, not another gay El" problem.

The community is great, but yeah, as you said, choose your own doll for your own reasons, whatever they are.

 

I think you've made a good point, LKJ. That issue's been sideswiped a few times in the thread but you managed to state it clearly.

I think all dolls, to some degree, get socked with perceptions of fad-hopping. And for the people who bought those dolls without consideration of that fad, it can get very frustrating. That's what brings out the defensiveness. For example, I know a lot of El owners feel defensive because their doll is considered the "starter mold" of the CP line. Me? I just like the look of my little elf. Of course, the fact that I even felt the need to add that last bit just goes to show that I'm not immune from defensiveness, either!

 

I am new to all of this so bear with me.
I've read through everyone's comments and I think there are valid points to all of this ie quality vs quantity, cheaper is often the only way some can go, etc.

With me it's the personality of the doll that I fall in love with.
My DoD Too has such a sweet face and I love his eyes and that's what caught my attention.
With my Obitsu Gretel it was the attitude and again her face.

Both of them are not the cheapest of dolls nor are they the highest priced dolls.
I did'nt pay full price for them either.
With my Too who's name is now Wisp he cost me half of what he was priced at on the website and I got him second hand.
With Gretel who is now Lace I saw her at a convention in Houston and traded 46 bjd kimono's that I sewed for her so I effectively only paid about 150.00 for her.

It's possible to get the more expensive dolls at a less expensive price if you look around.

My next doll I want to be a Happy Doll Arthur limited edition however I just don't currently have the 900.00 for him but he's one I want and am in love with and again it's the attitude/personality of the doll itself that sold me on him.

I guess what I am saying is that it is not always the price cheap or not that sells us on a certain doll, that often more likely than not it's the personality of that doll, it's soul, peeping out at us and going 'hey pssst adopt me please?'.

 

I would never even consider buying a doll because of a "fad" or because it was "rare". That seems totally stupid to me, and I don't know anyone else who would do it either. Why waste money on something that other people find desirable unless you plan to scalp it later? I think that when someone lays out the big bucks for a doll it's because they really like it. I think the same for a less expensive doll, too.

 

i totally agree with that lol, reguardless of how much you spent on your doll... it WASNT cheap, the money could have definitely gone to better causes. for most people, could have boughten them a month of groceries, or for people like me, could have boughten them a used car from their friend lol.

this hobby is expensive, no matter what doll you get and how much you got it for, because you have to buy clothes, and shoes and wigs and eyes and faceups and the dolls themselves, and some people want furniture and accessories and to take pictures, you need to have a camera which needs batteries or film or a memory card.

in the end, i think everyone who gets intothis hobby should have the doll because they like it, reguardless of price. no one should be judged over how much they spent on it....

who should be judged? people who think their doll is allmighty and better than anyone else's but took no talent as far as the faceup and/or clothes. trust me ive seen some of the ugliset dolls on this earth here and people thought that their doll was so beautiful! and then there was othe rpeople who were like "oh my god! your doll is amazing!" when the faceup was just a sore sight to see.

*bows* i feel so smart...*grin*

 

To be honest, I'll buy a doll based on appearance and not price tag.

I wanted a DZ Ying simply because I love his look (although he was bought as a gift for me). He stands far better than my El and Yen. I want to get a DZ Wing also, again because I like the way he looks.

I'm no expert on resin quality, as long as they don't crumble when I pick them up, I don't really care. Between my DZ and CP, both seem the same to me although DZ is a bit smoother.

A $420 DZ isn't cheap anyway, in my opinion.

 

agreeing with LKJ as well. I'm just not going to quote, everyone can read it already.

I quoted this because i do understand the feeling. At the end of the day. We all enjoy our dolls well... by ourselves. I love looking at friends dolls and if they have one i like but not considering owning, at least i can play with them ^^ (Shiwoo grew on me, but maybe it's because it's koko)

Most people entered this hobby for themselves and would put their our views towards why others have made that decision.

with the El issue... well mine was placed in a skirt once just because it's an 'El tradition' and to make him an 'El' he's also gay because he looks very nice paired up with my spare head. But why do i like him? I like the mold. Simple. I had thought i might as well buy Shine first seeing as there is so many Els about but at the end of the day. I have one El and that's all that matters. In a way i don't place much of his photos on line, because i really don't want the 'oh not another El' idea that some might have.

I reckon it should just be left at, we buy what we like regardless of price. Others buy what they like regardless of price. Seriously, they're dolls. We buy them to enjoy. Sometimes i think people make too big of a deal out of these dolls. I love them to bits, i enjoy being in the community but i do reckon people take these dolls too seriously and too protective either way. From the bottom of my heart i really don't care if another person on the other side of the world has a limited doll dressed in a sock or someone having a cheaper doll dresses in a sock or a limited outfit. I like meeting people and their dolls. I like seeing and reading about these dolls.

But to me, art and as beautiful they are. They're dolls. And frankly i neither care nor need to care what another person is doing with their dolls. I have a good time meeting them, becoming friends and talking to them, but whatever they choose to buy or do with their dolls it's none of my business. Neither is it their business if i decide to draw with permanent marker on my El or stick him in a skirt (i'll do neither, trust me)

edit: just to add on, i personally due to my financial reasons (i.e. being in debt for Uni and still living at home with a small part time and in multiple clubs. would rather have a comfortable part in this hobby. Rather than looking at a doll thinking... gosh i spent $2K on you... it was weird enough that nearly everything Cain sits on (except my bed and sofa) is worth less than him+ his face up+ everything he is wearing... come to think of it, the table costs less than Rae himself.... Hmmmmm