Only allowing yourself to buy "cheaper" dolls?

to be frank: i don't care what people do with their own money.
I mean it's their own money, and i don't know them; so it's none of my business.
But personaly i am very picky when it comes to dolls. I mean, i love the DoT, but i would never by one. Not because of price, because I prefer dolls with smaller eyes.
Although I wouldn't get a rare because to me it would most likely cost too much. And it wouldn't be worth it to me anymore.

I hope this made sense, and this is my personal preference-it doesn't matter to me what other people choose to or not to spend their money on.
And i am sorry if i offended anyone.

 

This is about how I feel. It's your money; do what you want. I've seen lovely "cheap" dolls; I've seen hideous "cheap" dolls. Same goes for the more expensive ones. I will say that having handled both, I find that the cheaper dolls aren't as well-engineered. The eyewells don't tend to be beveled as well, the arms don't fit properly...However, this is a problem with some more expensive companies too. I just see it crop up in a greater percentage of "cheap" doll moulds.
In short, I wouldn't buy a "cheap" doll, but I see nothing wrong with others doing so.

 

Shoot, I couldn't not jump in, but I have to leave for class in a few minutes, so I'll try to make this as brief (and yet coherent) as I can.

I think that price is very relative to the hobby. To use an example: I also collect blythe dolls, and what I'd consider an 'expensive' blythe doll, would be incredibly cheap for a BJD. I still have the same amount of money, but what I'm willing to pay in each fandom is drastically different. Why? Because the average prices are different.

I think everyone views what is 'expensive' or 'cheap' in relation to what the average cost is in the hobby. To continue with my example: the average Blythe doll is around $100- $120, so an expensive one, to me, would be $300 or above. Whereas, for an SD, the average price is usually from $500-$600, so an expensive one (again, to me) would be $900 or more.

If the median price in the hobby was $900 for a BJD, then I think I'd view that as the middle of the road and view the $500 dolls as cheap, because perception is distorted.

That doesn't mean that I would be able to shell out $900 for a doll, then, just like it doesn't mean I'm able to shell out $900 for a doll now (until I get a job XD) but my point is that arguing that the 'cheap' dolls are still expensive doesn't make sense to me, because the context of the doll fandom and the context of everyday life are two different things.

I think what the most difficult thing is, is trying to fit your ideas of value and price from the real world into the doll fandom, so you can find a doll which is afforadable to you, and one you'll be happy with.

And I...completely lost where I was going with this, so I'll just toss this bit out to the masses and run to class. XD

 

Here's what I get stuck on.

Why is it SO terrible for someone to buy a doll because it's cheap and then take poor care of it, or lose interest? Yes, they're probably wasting their money, but honestly unless they share expenses with me I don't think that's my business.

I think the issue is actually that on some level a lot of people think a doll is less like, say, an expensive purse, and more like a pet. We expect people to take proper care of their dolls, and to refrain from getting one if they won't take care of it/won't stay interested, and to hold out for the one that's really right for them instead of going for what's cheap and easy.

The reality is that none of these behaviors hurt anybody. Not the doll, not the owner, not other doll owners. It would be one thing if they were buying up limited dolls and giving them sharpie faceups and then stuffing them in the closet, but nobody's complaining about that. The fact that someone does that with a (first doll that comes to mind) DZ Megi isn't keeping anybody else from getting and enjoying a Megi. If anything it's helping to keep Dollzone solvent and making more dolls.

I honestly think that on some level this argument is tied up with the dolls-have-souls mentality. We like to think that the dolls are NOT toys, that they're somehow more special than toys, and honestly IMO they're just not.

 

OK, I can explain this too: "Coming to terms" as in realizing, "Wow, I like something that maybe isn't too popular, and maybe some folks are going to try to make me feel ashamed of. I'm going to have to prepare myself for some backlash, aren't I?"

Whether you are insulted or ashamed of it is your own prerogative, of course.... And whether you allow others to make you ashamed of it is also your own business. I don't think there's any shame in liking porn OR in cheap dolls. I'm a firm believer in "flying your own flag high"; however, doing so often opens you up to backlash from the mainstream, automatically, so you have to be honest with yourself when you do it, so that your claims ring true.

Actually, Hyschara's recent rephrasing of this is simpler to understand:

"And if anyone wants to say that people don't need other people's approval to enjoy their hobby, nor do they need to prove their doll's beauty to enjoy them, well... I have to say, you can't touch those who think otherwise."​

(Props, Hyschara.)

No. If you do wish to go back and read many of my previous posts before that one, you will start to digest the main thrust of what I have been trying to say. My only problem with the recent popularity of cheap dolls (I think we hit the "aesthetics" part of the debate around pages 2-3) is that the cheap ones seemed less likely to be well-turned-out, based on the percentages of pictures I've seen in galleries.

I think your problems here may have to do with a (willful?) misunderstanding of debate etiquette, and the very concept of debate. In a debate, it is expected that one may/will:

(a) Hear other people's viewpoints, and open yourself up to the processes that may have brought them to their conclusion.
(b) Entertain ideas that MAY be unpopular, and explore them as they relate to the main topic at hand.
(c) Justify or defend a position that you might not even hold yourself. Your own personal experiences & opinions may enter into a debate for illustrative purposes, but not be the core of your arguments.
(d) Expect a back-and-forth exchange of ideas that may contrast sharply, rather than shouting "You're just wrong!" and expecting people to change their minds. And
(e) Present your arguments calmly and rationally, rather than charging in like 10 gallons of bile in a 5-gallon bucket.

I myself didn't agree with Kim's stance about "not believing" people who say they buy Dollzones for the beauty-- I tend to take people's claims at face value. However, Kim's argument was well-presented and her analogies were right on the money; she made a clear point, so I elaborated on that line of thought. For that matter, I also didn't agree with Armeleia's suspicion that cheap-doll owners are all trying to jump on bandwagons, again because I have no reason to make a blanket accusation, but I saw where she was getting the idea from.

What I wish to impress upon you is that we can talk about these ideas without having to have lived them and believe them all ourselves. And please, civility. Tone matters, in a debate; the "shoutdown" approach is a turnoff, and will probably not make many more people willing to respond to you in an adult manner. (I am willing because I'm well familiar with the shoutdown approach, and it doesn't affect me.)

Ahh, my post is already too long-- that part has been hashed out a few pages back, so check out utmost salamander's excellently painstaking tally of prevailing opinion. Most folks here agree that we've seen almost as many crappily-done expensive dolls as we've seen beautifully-done cheapies. Ugly is ugly. Word up.

Oh, OK, I get your slant now-- a "personal limit" price that extends across the whole hobby. I have been thinking of prices on the per-doll basis, and there's such a wide range of prices in this hobby, so that's where I was going with that. Since $200 is considered cheap in this scene, my argument was that if somebody's personal "cap" for luxury-items is less than even that, then it may not be a practical hobby for them. (Nothing says they can't be happy lurkers & spectators, though.)

I think it's the class-war-like stratification of different people's comfort-levels, in dolldom, that's causing all this bad blood.

Agreed, I think that's the crux-- nobody's saying "move on", exactly, but people ARE having a hard time imagining why anyone would want to stay with a hobby whose prices they're not willing to accept.

Unfortunately, price IS a big facet of this hobby (as it is in auto-racing, the other reason I used it). These dolls are so bloody exquisite, and they're so bloody expensive, that just daring to collect them takes a lot of financial planning, and, sometimes an act of will.

How about this instead, is this example closer to home?: If I were, say, a vintage-Pucci-dress collector.... I would also tell people not to bother complaining about the price of their hobby, or else they might want to consider collecting Pucci knockoffs instead. Which is NOT a lesser hobby, btw, because I think the dresses all look like Pucci; they're just missing the label/prestige/pricepoint. (Disclaimer: Any actual Pucci collectors here, I apologize in advance! ^^ I'm just using this for the sake of argument.)

I apologize for the long post, but a lot of people asked me to explain a lot of things at once!

 

This is the point of this entire debate, boiled down to its simplest component. I specifically highlighted "an act of will" for a reason...collecting BJDs is not simply a matter of cruising over to Target or FAO Schwarz and picking up the newest Barbie or Bratz doll. Let's take a mid-range BJD, priced at $700. For some of us, myself included, saving $700 is difficult but necessarily a hardship. All it involves is tucking aside a couple hundred dollars a month and maybe three or four months' worth of savings. For some of us, it's as simple as plugging in your credit card number...hey! No waiting involved!

But there are others for whom saving $700 is impossible, because the money is scarce enough that to save that $700 would take up not weeks or months, but years. What is the point of being in a community in which you can't participate for lack of the main hobby component? That's not a hobby for anyone, unless you count saving pennies for an unreachable goal a hobby. Some people have that willpower...I have a customer at the bank who literally deposits the pennies he picks up out of the gutter and lives on a friend's couch and he now has well over a half million dollars in his checking account (that he refuses to spend on *anything*). An extreme case, but yes, it can be done. But at what cost? The rent payment? Diapers? Food? Or how about just that sense of financial well-being that comes with living within your means and that includes your extracurricular activities and hobbies.

I know my own financial limitations. I could afford to buy my Lishe outright, I charged my incoming Lati Blue, and knowing that I would never ever ever ever in a million years pay more than the pre-order price of a Unoa, won a faceplate on Ebay and will be creating a less expensive hybrid doll. There's no way I would have ever been able to enjoy her if I'd spent what amounts to a year's property taxes on her. No way. I can't do that. But, I also know that I have very little willpower to save money long-term for non-essentials...there are always unexpected expenses that crop up. That's the case for a lot of people...it's simply easier to justify a less-expensive doll that is just as desirable when there are financial obligations that can't be escaped.

Dollzone, Angel of Dream, and Orient Doll, among many others, serve a very valid purpose to doll collectors...it allows someone who can't afford oh haven't the willpower to save $700 to have a pretty doll that they can be proud of and dress up and love. How dare anyone complain about having to look at "cheap dolls with crappy faceups"? Your back button works, use it. If it's the overall aesthetic of the hobby that you're mourning, then that's unfortunate, because I've found something beautiful in every facet of this hobby, even in the crappy faceups from doll owners who are learning and want to share their efforts with their peers.

I really do think that we're all on the same page here. No one is advocating buying up all the cheap dolls just to have a doll and be part of the clique nor is anyone telling the owners of inexpensive dolls to hide shamefully in the corner, clutching their Dollzones and their Orient Dolls and muttering angrily about the "rich kids". D'ya hear that? We're all on the same page! It's just degenerated into the old haves and have nots argument.

 

Conversely, what's wrong with participating in a doll community without a doll? BJDs can be and are your own charges. You're responsible for them. You clothe them, care for them, dress them, shoe them. Provide living quarters for them. You're dishing out money for them. How does not having a BJD at the outset negate your worth and the value of your experience to the hobby? There is nothing wrong with coming into a doll comm to learn before you actually take the plunge and buy a doll.

This is, in my opinion, no longer about the dolls, or the pricing. This is about companies being canny enough to recognize the availability of a market for impatient people who must have a doll but do not want to pay through the nose, and do not have the patience to save for one. One gets a 'cheap' doll, hooray. Company gets money, cheers. Instant gratification.


To address the OP; In my opinion, it's a strange way of capping one's finances.
But ten 'cheap' dolls and their respective care is going to cost a lot more than saving for one 'expensive' doll and its wardrobe.
Between buying a horde of 'cheap' dolls to compensate for not being able to get that dream-yet-expensive-doll and saving for it, I personally would bide my time until I could get the latter.

 

I think your argument is very valid that some people are much too invested in their dolls, which makes their views skewed, but I disagree with the part that I quoted.

I think that in a lot of ways, buying a BJD is a lot like buying an expensive purse. I think there is a sort of pride in the knowledge that you've saved up for something you really want, and now you have it. Buying an expensive item, whether it be a purse or a doll, it sort of a physical item that you can show for your hard work and accomplishments. To me, it's sort of like "Wow, I work and I saved and now this is my reward," so you're bound to treat that item as special, as opposed to a $4 purse you bought on a whim because it was on sale.

That doesn't mean that the people who have designer purses (or expensive dolls) are any better than the people who have cheap ones, but I can understand a certian surprise, and maybe even...disapointment? That others appear to be impluse buying cheap dolls, instead of putting more time into them.

Of course, that's not always the reason people buy less expensive dolls, but I that it's just human nature to assume that most people share your opinion. It's difficult for some people to have a debate with others who hold such dramatically different opinions, because it may cause them to challenge some of their own beliefs and why they feel the way they do.

I know that holds true for me. I would have never thought of myself as having any sort of 'elitist' attitude towards dolls, until I started really disecting my opinion on this matter. Its made me realize that I do have some unfounded notions about cheap vs. expensive dolls, and it's good for me to read other's posts here, so I can see differing points of view.

 

To an extent non-doll owners can participate in the hobby--this forum is a great place to learn about various aspects of the hobby, and doing research before you buy an expensive ($200 is still expensive too) item, is always a good idea. However, it's not going to stay fullfilling for very long. Eventually people are going to want to go and do and not just read about it, and for some people it can take a very very long time to save for a $500+ doll.

On a seperate note:

There's also a number of less expensive options available now. By limiting oneself to lower cost dolls, you aren't actually limited to only one or two companies. AOD, Bobobie, DZ, Orient Doll, Angel Studio, Fantasy Doll, Abio Angel, Dolfie Dreams & Obitsu (for those who like vinyl), and various other companies that I'm probably not thinking of at the moment are all lower cost options (and most smaller scale dolls fall into the more economical category as well, for those who prefer smaller dolls). That's quite a few styles of sculpts to choose from. Unless someone is really pining for a particular doll that costs more, it's really not that limiting.

 

At the beginning of this hobby I started with the *cheaper* dolls. I don't think price is important and iff you can't afford to spend a lot of money on just 1 expensive dreamdoll. There isn't a reall problem but I do think it's a waste iff people buy a cheaper doll because they don't think it's worth it.
Cause iff a person thinks it's a waste of money I feel like that person is offending those who are serious about their more *expensive* dreamdolls.
I used to feel that MSD/SD sized dolls were way too expensive.
Untill I bought my first Blue fairy I loved the size and resin so much I graduately started to spend more money on more expensive eyes and eventually also dolls.
I've always wanted a FCS tan Kun but always held back because I felt it was too expensive and the waiting period was too long.
But I finally have my Kun tan girl and I regret not getting her sooner althought she does now have the UV-protected resin XD so it's not all bad!

I must say I'm not the kind of person that's willing to pay more than 1500$ on a limited or gorgeously costumized doll. I think I also am doing this as a rule for myself cause Iff I break that limit I don't think I'll be able to control myself.
XDDDD So I try not to crave for limited dolls. Unless I'm able to get their heads for not more than 600$ than I'd get them XD.

Either way I think buying cheaper dolls is the good way to get to know resin BJD but I think getting your dreamdoll is important too.

ps: Another thing THANK GAWD we have the euro here in Holland or I'd never gotten my FCS tan Kun. One dollar used to be over 3 gulden(the previous dutch currency) that means my FCS would have cost me more than 3000 gulden which would be unaffordable!!

 

Huh... I hear your call XD
In malaysia, 1USD = RM4. I really applaud for my country members who can afford a few of these dolls. As for me, if I wasn't studying in Australia (and saving up Aussie dollars) I'd never have gotten even one of my kids, much less the 3 and a half cheap ones i adore

 

I have dolls from many different companies and all at many different prices. The least I have ever paid for a doll was around $75 (Bobobie Tiny) and the most I've ever paid for a doll is probably the $800 I just shelled out for my Dollzone LE Tanned Elf (who I got ENTIRELY for the fact that he's gorgeous, thank you very much).

I have no dream dolls, because I love all of them and there is no great pinnacle of dollness that I just must have. I just like dolls. So I can't judge anyone saying they "settled" for a doll that wasn't their "dream doll' as I don't seem to have a "dream doll" myself.

When I purchase a doll, I don't care who made it. I don't care what country it's from. Doesn't matter to me at all. I care if I like it. I care how it "speaks" to me. I care how it's going to fit into my family. And that is how I decide which dolls come and live at the Treehouse and which don't.

Also, on the whole "marker faceups" and kids "buying cheap dolls that they don't really care about or take care of" topic, I can only say this: I have purchased a lot of second hand dolls. And I see to have the weird psychic talent of buying people's "first" doll after they've "outgrown" it or decided to put that character into another body. I have bought dolls with faceups done in nailpolish. I have had dolls here with the eyelashes glued to the outside of the eyelid. I have had more dolls come to the Treehouse wearing hand sewn sock clothing than I can count. And the one thing I can tell you about every single one of those beat up, misused, seemingly uncared for dolls is that each and every one of them was LOVED. The person who had that doll before me loved the hell out of it. Every first faceup I have had move into my home, no matter how horrible it might seem to the outside, was done out of love and a deep affection for that doll.

No, they might not be pretty to you. They might not be pretty to anyone but the person who painted them. Not everyone is born a faceup artist. And yes, I strip them and have them painted by professionals when I can (I have two that are too stained to remove, and I love them anyway. To me, they're beautiful.) But don't think that just because YOU find them ugly, it means the person who did it was "abusing" or "not caring for" that doll. Of all the dolls in that situation that I have personally seen, that is absolutely not the case.

I have met Volks owners who I didn't feel cared about their dolls at all. And I have met Dollzone owners who loved their dolls so much, it warmed my heart to be near them. What matters to me is whether you can PLAY or not. We're all adults playing with dollies. Can you PLAY? Do you have any imagination at all? If you can't play then you're on the same level as the porcelain and fashion doll collectors, and I don't like them either.

But if you play, I don't care what kind of doll you have, or what it cost you. I play too. And my doll hoard is full of cheap and expensive dolls and everything in-between and I wouldn't have it any other way.

(shrug)

Buy what you like, as long as YOU love it, who cares what the snobs of the world think? They're no fun to play with anyway.

- Wendy

 

Point taken, but I was referring more of people who never have and never will own a doll, because of the cost-prohibitive factor. Not someone who just has to wait a month or two or comes here to learn first (that's what I did). I'm thinking more of someone who wants to participate, but can't/won't because they will never be able to save up enough for an expensive doll. These are the people for whom less-expensive dolls are ideal.

 

I personally got a 60 cm Dollinian for my first and only doll. She cost under 250 once shipping had been included. It was incredibly difficult to find information on her because she wasn't a big brand and I couldn't find too many people anywhere who owned them yet. My dream doll costs over $1,000. I am unemployed due to a disability and it's very likely I'll never be able to get it--or any other toys in the near future for that matter. But that's the thing--no matter how much you love it, it still is just a doll, and like any toy, it's what you make it. Growing up I didn't always have toys that were brand names, but I still had a lot of fun and good times with them and in the end it didn't matter. Granted, a resin doll that costs hundreds of dollars is not quite the same as a GI Joe or Barbie or whatever, but the principle crosses over, at least for me.
Even for a "cheap" doll, I looked to make sure I would be happy with my purchase and thought about it long and hard. Also, even though it was "cheap" I had to save a long time.
I've only had my doll for a few weeks, and I'm having to work on her slowly and as inexpensively as possible, but I'm still doing the best work I can. I love my doll very much, I see her little personality, and every bit of work I'm doing on/for her, be it mods, paint, clothes, hair, or anything else, is done with meticulous care and love. Her sculpt is attractive, she is decent quality, and there is nothing at all wrong with getting a "cheap" doll.

I suppose my overall opinion is that nobody should "settle" for something he doesn't like, but he should still keep an open mind because there is a whole world beyond big brands. If he finds nothing he likes within his means, he may need to expand his means...or expand his search.

 

And that, in a nutshell, is why we're all here. It isn't what we paid, but the love and care we put into our dolls in order to bring them to life.

 

Yeah isn't it terrible!! I'm so thankfull with the euro althought import has become more afordable everthing else here has become expensive >_<.

But I would not have the dolls I have now iff it wasn't for the euro really.

 

I couldn't agree more!

 

Well I think its ok. People should be able to buy what they want. I mean just because a doll is cheap does not make it a bad doll. If the person who is buying the doll likes it then who cares what other people think. That just make me think that the people who judge others because their doll is cheaper than theirs was is shallow. I mean people should be nice to each other. At least that is what I think.

 

Whichever dolls someone buys is their business and their business alone. The reasons they buy them is also their business. Not mine. I dont pretend to know why someone bought one doll or another. Nor do I really care. Whether someone buys for cheapness, for beauty, for collecting, for rarity.... It is THEIR business.

I have dolls ranging in price from 95$(DD-ANNE tiny) to $1100(Volks Heath). I own a Dollzone doll. I own Volks doll. Each of my dolls I purchased because there are many qualities I loved about that particular doll and I had to have it.

Everyone has their opinion on this. Mine is that if person #1 wants to get a cheaper doll(s)... person #2 is welcome to their opinion on it. But that's what it is, an opinion. It shouldnt(and from the replies I see, mostly doesn't) affect person #1's decision on what dolls they purchase and love.

 

Well, I am not that familiar with the fashion world, being a vegan and all, but I do have a vague
understanding of how "mad" some people go for vintage designer fashions. ^____^

I understand that being the curious creatures humans are, people will eventually wonder
why some people do some things one way, when the majority do them otherwise. I guess
it's human-nature to "wonder." What I believe makes a lot of people who own the more inexpensive
dolls, a bit sensitive or defensive to most of these comments "against" cheap dolls is,
the negativity that seems to flow with these comments (I don't include myself because it truly
and honestly doesn't bother me what other people's options are).

It's just like other threads out there, where people explain how they've received negative
comments or just negative reactions from non-bjd people, towards their dolls or towards themselves
for being involved with dolls. I would think that, that alone would make the whole "community"
more open and receptive to acceptance of variety (not only in personal tastes, but values and tag-prices
as well), but I guess it just leaves us in the "it's perfectly human to wrong,"
regardless of own-personal experiences in the matter. Because, if it was just about the
wondering, and about the questioning of why people enter this hobby and then complain about
the price, there would not be tactless comments and negative reactions towards this whole
topic. And yes, there is negativity because it doesn't matter which way you see it, when someone
assures that there is no possible way someone can love, or fall in love with a cheap doll, it's
not only saying that individual's opinion is undeniable fact, but also that the person with the
cheap doll is a liar.

If it were true that price assures love of an object, in this case a doll, then why do people sell
their LE dolls? Didn't the $3000+ price-tag mean the person was indeed, and without a doubt in-love with the
LE doll? I for one can say that I love all my dolls (not just bjd) and all of my material possessions equally,
even if I was to starve, I wouldn't sell any of them regardless of how cheap or expensive they were.
Because that's how much I love them, and not because I paid $250, or $5 for any of them. So far
after living in this world for 26-years, I can say I still have yet to sell any of my possession, poor as I am.
I am not going to go around and complain about the price of things, if I can't afford them then I just won't
buy them. But that doesn't mean people should be nasty to those who do complain. It is so easy to
just skip thru or ignore comments that irritate us, why make life more difficult then it already is?

Thanks for taking the time and replying to so many comments, it is always interesting to see other peoples
points of view, even if we cannot understand each other, I at least feel like I learned a lot from you.


- Enzyme ^_____^