Only allowing yourself to buy "cheaper" dolls?

Well, I hate to break it to you, but you're actually... well, it isn't even a debatable thing -- this is just factually inaccurate. You don't think a doll with two heads/faceplates is going to take longer than one with one? It will. Don't think resin costs vary? They do. Considering a number of resins, last I checked, were made in China? ...there's no import duty on it, adding to the resin cost, even for the very same resin -- so if a company in South Korea uses Chinese resin? They're paying more for it than the company in China.

That may be true, it may not. I'm not going to demand any of them open up their books so I can tally it though, and I'm not going to make any assumptions.

...because all artists take the same amount of time on the same task? (Labor costs, R&D time.) And all tasks/projects/doll parts are the same from company to company? (Levels of detail, number of pieces, number of alternate parts and pieces.)

...beginning to see where what you're suggesting completely falls apart on a factual basis alone?

Here's where my head meets the desk several times. Who is getting in your face to tell you your doll is cheap? And why, if you don't think price has any bearing on anything, would you let it bother you if they were?

(For the record, I have a Barbie than cost me more than $300, though not by a considerable amount. She was not cheap, either -- there are expensive Barbies just like there are expensive BJDs. She's also out of her box, sitting on a shelf in the bedroom, because I'm a heretic among the typical NFRB crowd. )

 

"Cheap" is not a value judgement, it's a relative term. In the world of a high-end hobby, where for some dolls $1700 might be a bargain, yes, $300 is most definitely cheap. So you can drop the offense, because none of it's personal. (A) There is entirely too much of this sort of self-crucifixion going on lately, and it just depresses everybody, and (B) that old "no doll should ever cost more than $x" argument has never been able to hold up a single fact.

Nobody's suggesting that you change your standards of the quality you desire in a doll-- but being in such total denial about the difference between companies' qualities/methods/materials, and the costs thereof, will really keep your viewpoint narrow.

 

Do you have actual numbers you base this statement on and have you taken into consideration that you can buy a lot more and pay a lot more people with $100 in China than in Korea, because of differences in costs, taxes and wages? A $100 profit is more for a company like Bobobie than for a company like Luts, because Bobobie is able to hire more people and buy more resource materials.

 

While $300 is significantly less expensive than $800, it's still a lot of money. Money has always been tight and if I'm investing anything, whether it be $200 or $600 it will be because I personally love it. I've been looking a these dolls for a while now and while most of them are pretty beautiful, most of them aren't for me. It wasn't until I saw one of the much less expensive dolls that I knew I wanted him specifically. The advice that everyone has given me is “don't rush into buying a cheap doll if it's not what you really want.” And yes, a lot of people personally don't like his head sculpt(I like things a little quirky), but I do and that's what's important. I don't think the value of a doll comes from the price, but what you do with it and how you love it.

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree with the idea that the price difference is not justified.

I have owned over 40 different dolls in my 7 years of collecting, and while I admit SOME of those were overpriced, and that I HAVE loved some cheap dolls, there is definitely a difference in the quality of the resin, the sculpt, and the posing.

I love Asleep Eidolon dolls, but the details are fairy crude and the body design is imperfect. I also love Shinydoll, which personally I think are perfectly balanced and engineered, while Asleep Eidolon dolls just are not the same at all, though still cute. And I'd consider AE as one of the higher quality Chinese companies.

I don't want to make this too much about countries though; I've handled Korean dolls which I don't believe were nearly worth their price (Orientdoll to name just one...). But I've also owned Dollndoll dolls, one of the cheapest Korean companies, and was very happy with the quality. So there is good value to be had.

I have done dozens of face ups, and I can tell you there is a great deal of difference in care and detail between a Volks and an AoD face. I'm not saying Volks is superior (I don't even like Volks) but I do think they are better finished. But quality isn't everything; Luts CP faces are beautifully sculpted and finished, but I dislike them, and wouldn't buy one. I consider Resinsoul dolls are lacking in detail, but I think some of them are really adorable and would definitely own one!

In short: I happily pay more for a better posing doll, and I'd settle for, and expect lesser posing from a cheaper doll. And with sculpt quality, I would happily buy a doll I think has a face sculpt lacking detail or quality if I think it's cute :p

 

This has probably been said a thousand times but I fully believe you should buy what you love and spend what you are comfortable spending. It honestly shouldn't matter in the slightest whether it's a doll seen as "cheap" or a doll seen as "too expensive" or anywhere in between. To enjoy a hobby, you need to get into it and get what's in your own comfort zone and what you enjoy. Anything less or more than that and you may be just tarnishing the hobby for yourself. After all, at the end of the day, when you want to take pictures or write a story or make clothes or just even LOOK at your dolls, it's YOUR opinion on them that actually matters.

I read some of the beginning pages of this thread and realized people think my doll is cheap and don't care for the sculpt. I let that bother me at first but then I realized that, to me, he was not cheap. I worked tons of overtime to get him and I was so proud when I put the final payment down on him, just as proud as anyone else, I'm sure. I also got him because I find him stunning and strangely versitile. And I understand not everyone is going to agree with any of that but that honestly doesn't matter. Whether it's a Volks, Soom, BBB, DZ, or Luts, that doesn't matter above how you feel about your own dolls at the end of the day.

Or, at least, that's my opinion. :-D

 

With regard to the oft-repeated "If you love it enough, you'll save up for it" line, I do think that triniarin's point about being in a country where the average income is lower and livingdeaddarling's about being a teenager in a struggling household were good ones. Just because it's possible to free up (or save up) the money for something doesn't mean that it's the most financially sound choice for certain personalities or certain situations, and given the original question that started the thread I think it's certainly not questionable for people to choose the less expensive option in those cases.

A friend of mine has been eyeing the Soom monthly dolls for a couple of years, but has held back on getting one and recently bought a few RS fantasy parts instead. It's not that he can't afford it (he's 34 and has a well-paying job) it's that he has two children, a sickly father and a wife who only works part-time and (to him) that equals too many chances for things to go change quickly and so he'd rather have too much in the bank than just enough.

And that's not a finger-wagging at anyone in the same situation who would buy the Soom doll(s), it's just him being aware of his own aversion to risk, and knowing that what he really wanted to do in the hobby was build some weird-looking fantasy dolls regardless of resin quality (he actually says "giant action figures" instead of "dolls", but that's just because he hasn't gotten used to being a dude who plays with dolls yet ).

 

Allow me to state this once more. YES there is a definate difference in quality- specifically in certain brands. and YES the time making and shipping a doll can take longer due to country, resin thicknes, ect. Surreality- I said not ALL take different times. this was a broad statement. Who is demanding anyone to open their books??- I was clearly reputing an idea that was equally undeterminable. about the shipping-- clearly we were comparing dolls with one single head and faceplate. I would think it would be obviouse that a doll with multiple faceplates would cost more 0_o
when I said I was tired of hearing my doll called "cheap" i was speaking from personal descrimination I have experienced just in the year I have been in this hobby. I am obviosly not saying that everyone behaves this way. As for your head hitting the desk I find it most unfortunate that you would take a debat and feel so personally angered-- I should hope it didnt leave a bump too large.
Muisje- oh yes, I secretly work as a spy in the companies. I am all knowing.
Hervoyel- thank you for understanding my point and respecting my opinion though you may not agree with it.
Now, this intellegent debat has quickly become an argument in which too many personal emotions have been attached to a simple conversation. On that basis, I will end.

 

Be very, very careful about ascribing motives or emotion to other posters in this forum. For instance, ascribing 'anger' to my post or reasons for posting would again leave you pretty much dead wrong. People saying foolish things doesn't anger me -- but people doing the above have crossed a certain line with me and are at substantially more risk of it.

Quite a few people are talking about 'discrimination' or 'abuse' or 'nasty elitism' -- even just over the past few days -- and not citing examples when asked to elaborate on their personal experience. That's what I asked you about. For whatever reason, you don't seem willing or able to do that here -- but appear to wish to continue claim that you're being discriminated against! (Help! Help! I'm being repressed!)

There's a reason things along the lines of 'this victimization you speak of is entirely in the confines of your own head/stems from insecurity and defensiveness/is a pre-emptive strike against someday confronting this bogeyman' has come up in a few threads over the last few days. Just sayin'.

 

If you want to participate in a mature debate, don't make statements you can't back up. If people start making statements about you, you want them to base it on facts and not on vague notions or made up ideas, right?
You claim that "LUTS and Soom are still taking in an insane amount of profit compared to the "cheaper" companies for these dolls.", but what do you base that statement on? You know how much their dolls are sold for, but do you know how much each company spends on taxes, casting materials like resin and silicone, wages, packaging materials, web design, website upkeep, and so on? As long as you don't know how much profit each company makes, you can't say which one is making an "insane amount" of profit compared to the other.

If you want to claim that someone or some company is doing something, please provide good arguments to back up your claims.

 

And what about how long it takes a company to design and produce a doll? Some doll companies finish a doll in 6 months, others take 2, 3 years (maybe because the doll is more detailed, because it is a difficult design, because it has a new or improved jointing system). That production time has to be financed, otherwise it's bye-bye company.

And there are many, MANY silicone and resin varieties, all with qualities ranging from poor to fantastic and all with different look and feel. Different companies use different resin types and some will cost more.
Besides, it depends on the design of the doll how much resin you need for one copy. Some 60cm dolls (take Elfdoll or CP, for example) need less than others (like Volks or Dollstown). It also depends on the design how much miscasts you'll have. Hands with bend fingers are more difficult to cast than hands that have a straight-forward pose.

These dolls are not too expensive. Just because you aren't willing to cash out for them, doesn't mean that these companies are asking ridiculous prices.

 

Don't forget employees, those have to be funded too. A bigger company will have more employees to pay -- sculptors, casters, QC, managers, supervisors, customer service reps, photographers, seamstresses. A legal team. Translators. Website designers, database developers, IT support. And pretty much all of these are highly skilled jobs, and are not being paid pennies on the dollar in a sweatshop.

 

I have to say, though, that BJDs are worth their insane prices, even if that means you can't afford one. I've made 2.4-ish BJDs myself out of clay and I know a ton of work and skill goes into making a doll. Casting into resin is a whole other beast, I couldn't even manage that one myself (and it's expensive!). Making my own BJDs sort of put everything into perspective, I used to think $600 was a LOT, but now it just is. Though charging less doesn't mean it's worth less or less time was put into making it, as other people have pointed out.

I wish I could see and handle other dolls, to see the differences that you can't see in photos.

 

One thing I don't understand is how exactly one goes about judging the quality of resin. I mean, I hear a lot of people say volks resin is heavy and while I totally agree that volks dolls are pretty hefty Why does that make them better quality? I always figured that if the resin is sturdy, not prone to cracking or breakage and doesn't have any radical flaws (uneven color, bubbles discoloration) then it's fine.

It kinda reminds me of the way integrity toys often stick a big metal nut into their fashion royalty dolls bodies to give the impression of a heavier body. If weight is all it takes to make a product seem higher quality then I guess my 20 year old outdated TV is of exceptional quality since it probably weighs about 400lbs

 

I do actually notice a significant difference in resin quality with my dolls- I own cheaper dolls and more expensive ones, and the resin quality is very obviously different. It's not a small thing either, it's something that you will notice. My bobobie cost about $40 less than my Planetdoll girl, but her resin is distinctly superior. The price differences are very likely there for a good reason.

That said, it's clear that not everyone can afford to save up for a doll, or wouldn't be willing to spend their savings on one- and that's okay! If you have other responsibilities, then go ahead and spend your money the way you see fit. Why is it everyone else's fault because you can't afford to buy a doll? I'm not trying to point fingers here (and I'm not replying to anyone- I'm simply posting my overall opinion) , but it seems awfully selfish to accuse the companies of over pricing just because you aren't fiscally able to afford the product.

There are many that can and will buy it at it's given price, and while it is unfortunate that there are those who can't, that doesn't automatically make the company a villain. Let's remember that these are luxury items, and if you choose not to or can't spend your money on them, then that should be fine, just as if you chose to purchase them, it shouldn't make you some sort of greedy jerk or something.

 

How so? When it comes to buying things, be it a doll, your dinner, or a house - it seems to me that price is the most practical consideration! If a person goes into debt for a doll or spends money that's within their budget but outside of their comfort zone and are uncomfortable as a result (both of which are things that people talk about) then surely they should have thought a little more about the price, no?

 

Heheh- I did actually edit my post because I realized at the last minute that the conversation had taken a different turn. And also, when I thought about it, I realized that I was looking at the subject purely from within the "Should I only buy cheap dolls (due to being too lazy to save up)" angle. So yes, in terms of making large purchases, it is clearly very important to consider price- it's not something you want to not consider for example, but what I meant was that if you're in an expensive hobby, you can't whine about things being 'expensive'- I apologize for putting it the wrong way!

 

Seconding this! A friend of mine likes to cast her own doll bits every once in awhile. She very clearly told me that it isn't to save money. Not in the least.

And $600 can still be a lot of money depending on who you are, what you're buying and your financial situation. I might not think twice on spending $600 on a doll during the summer. But when I have to buy Christmas presents in the winter for everybody it just isn't feasible.

 

I was actually wondering this myself. How exactly does one go about judging resin quality? Or at the end of the day is that going to be subjective to what each individual person is looking for/likes?

 

The weight of the resin is one definite way to judge quality. A lot of times, a lighter doll has thinner resin, which makes it more prone to breakage, but you also have to consider how dense the resin is. Look at the thickness of resin, especially at the joints, and judge if the doll feels heavier than you'd expect it to. If it does, that's a sign of a dense resin, which is an indication of quality.

The tooth of resin is another good way to judge, although you have to be careful on that because most Chinese comanpies sand their dolls, which leads to the more shiny, plasticy look. "Tooth" refers to the grainy feeling of the resin. A good tooth is another sign of quality, and it will make faceups look nicer as the pastels and other materials will stick better. Too much tooth, though, is bad, and will make faceups look grainy.

The feel of the resin can also indicate quality, although again, care has to be taken when considering the company. A doll that feels more like a hard plastic is probably made of a more inferior resin -- Bobobie resin is a very good example of this.