Paypal fees discussion

I know I have the right not to buy from those people and I make every effort not to. If they want to be paid then at least take the ten seconds to calculate it yourself, imo, and count it as part of the cost. Its part of doing business online.

 

Yeah, and for doll items that final value fee is now 12%. Bastards

 

Good god, really?

Well I haven't used Ebay for a few months now and I think maybe I won't be going back.

 

No, I should have qualified that. It won't effect you since you do auctions. It is less for that method. We do BIN.

 

How on earth would you know if someone shouldn't have a premier account or if they have a rarely used account? That's like the logic used in the guilty thread. Ultimately, your views can be easily summarized as not buying from people who charge fees. There are many people who have a premier account who do not charge fees. Additionally, Paypal does recommend that the cost of business (fees) be included in the original purchase price, and if the seller chooses to, it can be refunded up to 3%... if the seller who has a premier account actually takes the time to include the 3% in their business and refunds it to those who don't pay with cards.

As you mentioned in a post further down, then buy only from people who have a personal account so that you aren't "penalized" for giving Paypal your bank information. I'm not even sure what you're getting at since you were unhappy with fees, mentioned that you were getting penalized by sellers who include it in their costs, and then mentioned, in response to Akkhima how sellers should take the time to include it in their costs.

I don't like paying fees either, but a majority of people on DoA don't know how to do business and don't take any of those considerations in mind. For people who do charge fees, the best thing you can do as a buyer is not buy from them, and if it impacts their sales that significantly, maybe they'll consider not charging them in the future or raising their prices so that they won't charge fees.

 

I don't charge paypal fees :/ Its only a couple dollars at them most anyways...atleast, it was when I sold a large item recently. I usually charge items I get from doll companies for a slightly higher price to make up for the huge amount I always pay for shipping. But not to cover the fees.

[/hope that makes sense]

 

I used to ask the buyer to cover Paypal, but stopped. Not only does Paypal frown on it by having them withhold what seller protection there is (read the terms), it unnecessarily complicates the transaction. Slows things down for a relatively small amount of money. Now I get bugged when I see "+4%"... can't you do the math for me? It's not so much that I don't care about the fee so much as I just want to know at a glance what the true cost to me as a buyer will be.

But I also think the same thing about sales taxes in retail stores and nobody there is obliged to give a crap what I think, so...

 

I posted earlier in this thread.. I don't charge fees. I do try to use my personal account as much as I can, rather than my premier account. The only place where I feel a fee should be charged is in group orders. The organiser should not have to pay for everyone else's stuff. Then I think it's fair.
As you point out, and I thoroughly agree.. why can't they take the time to figure out what the fees are? It really annoys me when I have to hunt down the place to figure out fees and do it myself. I'm sorry, that's your job. As the seller, you should have that already figured out for the buyer. Retail stores don't make you add the tax up yourself when you pay for it, why should any seller?

LM

 

I think the reason some seller's don't do the math for you is they have no idea how much shipping will be to you, and thus what your total will be. You can't calculate 4% of a total you don't know.

 

If that's the case, then they should just add 4% to the item value, then 4% to the shipping estimate when they give it to you and call it "shipping+handling"

 

I'm happy to offer to pay the paypal fee on a small product (Like if it's $2 extra, or something like that) because I don't think it's entirely fair that the seller should have to pay that extra.

But... If it was a larger purchase, such as a doll, where the fee was more significant, I wouldn't be interested in paying. I already have to pay a paypal conversion fee, and the higher the price the more I have to pay, which is worse due to the exchange rate. > > So the paypal fee then becomes the sellers problem.

 

Personally, it aggrivates the hell out of me when sellers try to get you to cover their paypal fees. I've never understood why DOA allows people to do this. It is illegal. And just for the record, those saying "In my country it is allowed", i highly doubt this. I have a friend in Japan, and in Canada, and both have told me that it is in their terms of service that you are not to charge ANYONE your paypal fees. Personally, i think DOA should take a stand on this. It's an illegal act. Just as wrong as trying to sell a doll you don't own yet. I personally will NOT be doing business with people who charge their paypal fees to me. If you go into target, and you use your card, they don't look at you and say "oh, i'm sorry, you are using a credit card, so there is an additional 7 percent fee, to cover our charges on that amount...."

Everytime you use your credit card, the store you use it in is charged a fee to take that money. They are not allowed to pass that to the consumer.

The only time i've ever been willing to cover someone's paypal fees, is if they are selling something at such a price, that it is far below the going rate.(example, right now, i'm buying a Unoa doll, and i'm paying for the fees, only because the girl was selling it for like 680, which is about 100 less than the going rate.) Or, if it is for a group order. If i add up the paypal fees you are charging, and the price of the item, it should not come to more than the going rate of the item you are selling. That's just my opinion. But apparently, there are people who agree with me in this paypal fee arena LOL

 

Technically, it's not "illegal" as in against the law... so the laws within your country of residence are irrelevant. It would be a breach of contract, specifically of the Paypal Terms of Service, and is subject to the repercussions listed in that contract. (The only way the law would be involved is if Paypal pursued legal action for violation of ToS, and that gets complicated). I don't agree with sellers who regularly charge fees for small items, and I don't do so either. I see that as a necessary cost of doing business via Paypal.

But I won't begrudge someone hosting a large group order from doing it. On an early group order I ran, I ended up eating about $50 or so in fees, when all was said and done. I know people who run much larger group orders as a service to other participants so everyone can save on shipping. It only seems fair for participants to help cover fees so that everyone wins. Otherwise it wouldn't be feasible for anyone to host a GO, when the Paypal fees add up to more than the shipping that the host would have paid for an individual order anyway. If that makes sense.

 

Ultimately, the same can be said for 'not buying from people you feel are scalping." However, there are set rules here on DOA for it. You can tell people that they should buy only from people who do not have a premier account, but in the end, it is the responsibility of the paypal account owner who is taking payment to take that fee, not the buyer. That's the very point of this thread. A buyer should not have to run around seeing who has a premier account and who doesn't, because the seller should not be charging fees to begin with, as it's against Paypal's terms of service.

Just so you all know, if you pay for something and were charged fees, you can send any PM's, or emails that show this to paypal, and they will refund you the entire amount that you were charged for paypal fees. I know, i've done it.

 

In my opinion, tempered by personal experience, Paypal's business practices are, if anything, hinky. But aside from that I think it is important to realize that, as people have said previously, sellers should take into account the convenience of "instant money." By that same token, buyers should also appreciate the convenience of not having to wait at least a month in production/manufacturing time for large items. But to elaborate on this, I think there are specific problems, at least in this category, at the root of the issue. To illustrate, let's take a look at this typical hypothetical scenario.

Seller A wants to sell a doll, standard edition with no extras, and creates a DoA marketplace listing.
Buyer X finds that sale listing and wants to buy Seller A's doll, so Buyer X PMs S.A.
In responding PM, Seller A sends final total with shipping and fees, stated separately.
Buyer X politely declines to buy the doll, choosing to search for a fee-less purchase.

While highly simplified, this basically epitomizes the problems experienced by BOTH sellers and buyers.
-Seller A just lost a potential customer, and a few hundred dollars just moved on to something else. The doll in question remains with the seller, taking up space and being an inconvenience.
-Buyer X lost the opportunity to get their desired doll without the lengthy wait timeline attached, and may have to look very hard to find a similar fee-less sale.

Seller A did initiate the sale, should it be their responsibility to bite the bullet and take in the fees as a business cost, considering the amount in question is still a good bit of cash they did not have before the sale?

Buyer X would be getting a new doll that they have now passed up, on whatever grounds. Should they just accept the fees as a necessary evil to get the item they want with less hassle than from a company store?

In the end it IS up to the buyer to buy and the seller to sell on their terms, but at least from a sales/PR standpoint it is a lot more professional to include the fees in the original price at very least than make it seem as though they are penalizing their buyers for doing business with them (fees are a fact for sellers and buyers, but not all buyers feel that they should be obligated to pay for the seller's preferred payment method).

Alternatively, there are other options (at least within the US). United States Postal Service money orders are entirely safe and reliable, and can be cashed at any USPS branch with just a personal ID to verify that you are, indeed, the person to whom the order should be paid. And if you think about it, it also saves a trip - you have to go to the post office anyway to ship out your items, so it's not like it would be extra gas or extra hassle. Additionally, that's cash in-hand than can be used for more necessary, pressing things than dollies like groceries or electric bills.

 

Personally, as a seller, even though I don't sell much, I like to have the largest customer pool I can reasonably get. So even though I would get hit with new fees on simple cash payments, I upgraded to Premier and never looked back. Not having to give a crap about whether your buyer used cash or charge "correctly" is actually quite liberating.

Even so, I actually do take postal service money orders. I figure I may capture an anti-credit card holdout or a minor as a customer by chance, so why not? Money is money, y'know! But that said, right now I'm having trouble collecting a payment via snail mail that's dragged on for a month now. Truly, 4 cents on the dollar is a small price to pay to avoid transaction drama. "Check is in the mail" is popularly considered a lame excuse/non-promise for a reason...

On a somewhat related note, expanding the customer base is the main reason I am fully willing to sell and ship to people outside my country. It is extra hassle, since there's customs and you have to be familiar with international shipping rates and services. But even with much increased shipping charges, at least foreign buyers are included; they have a chance and a choice.

 

The only country that it's legal to charge Paypal or credit card fees is in the UK and that is ONLY to other people living in the UK.

 

You can complain about this until you're blue in the face, but if a seller is going to charge fees, then don't buy from him/her. Also, you can claim that the responsibility lies with the PayPal account owner to cover fees as it's the cost of doing business, but in the end, if the seller refuses to cover fees, then don't do business with them. You cannot enforce this rule. PayPal can try, but they've already proven themselves a craptastic vendor for failing to enforce rules.

Simple solution? Don't buy from sellers that charge fees. I sure as hell don't.

 

I don't think the point of this discussion is wether to buy or not to buy, but the moral ethic behind sellers who charge fees. You can say "don't buy from sellers who charge Fees" till you turn pink, purple and then green, but it does not make this issue any more right. Sellers who charge fees are breaking the contract of their terms of service of paypal. And while you might not think that paypal does anything about it, they've proven to me that they do.

When you buy a doll, and the seller states that they are charging you their paypal fees, show a screencap of that transaction to Paypal, and watch how fast you get your money back. They almost always side with the buyer when it comes to the paypal fees being charged to the buyer. The person who owns the paypal account is being charged for the convience of taking cash online. This is not something that should then be passed down to the buyer.

It makes about as much sense as someone walking up to a vending machine, buying a candy bar, and then someone jumping out from behind it, and saying, "Ok, you bought a candy bar from my vending machine, please now pay me a 20.00 fee towards the rent of this spot".

You are paying paypal for their services. Let's say that the customer sends money to the vendor, for their fees, and they too have paypal and take payment. Now they are eating their fees, along with the fees that someone wrongfully charged them. I really think something should be done about this, especially here on DOA.

I just think it would be a great thing if DOA one day up and decided that people who sell on here will no longer be able to state that they are charging a paypal fee on top of a the cost of a sale.

Just my opinion.

We get all upset and petition for charges to be pressed against people who steal on here. Why are we treating people who pass down their charges to paypal any different? People should be turning these individuals in to paypal. Paypal can't do anything about it if people don't report it. But your account can officially be closed and they can revoke your right to accept money via paypal if you are caught more than once charging paypal fees.

Maybe if a few more people lost their right to accept money via paypal, they'd think twice next time when charging someone wrongfully.

And as i had already stated before, i don't buy from sellers who charge fees. It just gets aggrivating seeing every other seller in the marketplace expecting you to pay their paypal fees. It seems like everytime i find interest in anything in the marketplace, i find that i'm clicking the X in the upper right hand corner because i find that they are asking for paypal fees.

 

Wait, have you purchased a doll knowing that there is a Paypal fee, and then filed a claim to get back what you paid? You may not like paying Paypal fees but that's a particularly poor way of dealing with the situation, ripping money you've agreed to pay them out of their account, and likely freezing the account while it's all going on so they can't do any other business or access their funds. If you don't want to pay a fee, don't buy through them, going behind their back and screwing them over isn't the way to solve things.

And for the record I think making buyers pay Paypal fees is a bad thing and sellers should either work the fees into their prices in the first place or just absorb them, and I don't usually buy from people who charge for Paypal fees. I just think that doing what you describe is a really rotten way of dealing with the whole fee situation, if I understand you correctly.