Paypal fees discussion

I'm not sure, if you must use paypal (yes, I do plan on reading the rules more carefully when I open my own shop), but if not I plan on using Obopay. I've found the future to be in mobile phones, and I quite love this feature. It's definitely book marked for me.

Personally, I can't imagine forcing my buyers to pay for my rent.
It's like asking my neighbors to pay for my rent, because we share a flower bed in the front of the house. It doesn't work that way.

 

It does in business. In order to actually turn a profit, businesses have to factor in all their costs to the price of their goods. For example, a clothing store factors in the store rent, the electricity for the store, worker wages, transportation costs, equipment costs, and even the fees due to credit card companies for taking their payments. And that makes perfect sense -- they have to cover their costs, or else they'd be losing money every day they were in business.

You may not like it, but that is the way every single business in a capitalist economy works.

Not that I'm saying an individual selling a doll on DoA is a business like this. But multiple people have said in this thread that businesses don't charge customers for things like rent and operation costs, and that's just flat-out wrong.

 

It says I'm "verified" on my first page:

Welcome, (MyName) (MyEmail) Edit profile
Account holder since 2000
Account type: Personal
Status: Verified
And here is what it says on my "limits" page:

Limits on your account


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For security reasons, there are initial limits on the amount of money you can send, receive, and withdraw from your PayPal account. It’s easy to lift these limits – simply verify your bank account or card information.

Type of Limit Limit Remaining Action
Receiving limit (monthly) $500.00 USD $500.00 USD Upgrade Account
Debit or credit card acceptance limit * 5 Transactions 5 Transactions Upgrade Account

Your monthly receiving and withdrawal limits are reset every month on the anniversary of when you opened your account. Your account was opened on Dec. 11, 2000

What do these limits mean?

Receiving limit: The maximum amount you can receive before you must upgrade to a Business or Premier account. This limit is reset every month. Receiving limits apply only to the following payment types: eBay Items, Auction Goods (non-eBay), and other Goods. No other payment types affect your receiving limit.

Debit or credit card acceptance limit:
As long as you are within your monthly receiving limit, you can accept up to five debit or credit card payments per year at our low per transaction rate. See our fees

If you upgrade to a Premier or Business account, you will enjoy many exclusive features not offered with Personal accounts.


* Excludes amount sent through Skype
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Your limit is reset every month, starting from the date you opened your account. Your account was opened on Dec. 11, 2000. To remove the Receiving Limit from your account you will need to upgrade to a Business or Premier Account. All limits are denominated in the currency of your Primary Balance. If you receive funds from a currency balance other than your Primary Currency, your Receiving Limit will be reduced by the Primary Currency, your Receiving Limit will be reduced by the Primary Currency equivalent of the received amount. To calculate the value of one amount another, use the Currency Converter.


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Return to Account Overview


I think what you are talking about when you say "limits are lifted" is when you initially open the account, there are limits on sending, withdrawal and receiving until you verify. I've been verified a long time and I can guarantee you, those "initial limits" were lifted long ago, and there are no limits on how much money I can send out or withdraw. I have made payments of several thousand dollars out of the account with no problem, and I can transfer monies over 500 dollars to my bank without a fee (i.e. withdraw). However, the limit on "receiving" is so that if you are regularly doing over 500 dollars worth of business on the account, Paypal can collect fees from you. As I understand it this is not something that goes away. If you have a different type of account that is fine, but since there's no real way to test it until someone sends you 600 dollars today I don't think we can tell for sure.

There are a lot of reasons your group order payments might have come through in your account, including (1) your account is set up differently from mine; (2) people paid you during a period when one month ended and another began; (3) people actually paid you through Paypal less than 500 dollars and other money came in from another source like your own bank account; (4) people designated their payments for "Services" or "Money transfer" and not for "Goods" (this is technically kind of skirting the rules of Paypal).

I appreciate your wanting to help so if you see something wrong in my analysis you can feel free to point it out, but I've been up and down the Paypal trail in a big way for a long time as when I transact through Paypal a lot of the time it is fairly high dollar for various reasons (not always doll related) and I have to have my ducks in a row.

 

Your opinions stated here are only opinions, then. The Paypal TOS says you cannot charge fees to accept Paypal, but OF COURSE you can add 4% to your base price, so long as you are charging that to everyone. And you can do it for the sole reason that someone MIGHT pay with paypal so you MIGHT end up paying a fee. You can always charge any amount more profit on goods you are selling, duh. This is basic economics. I can add an extra 12% because I'm in a bad mood or 3% because I have brown hair, or 7% JUST because I feel like it. So long as this is my stated price and I charge it to everyone. Once it is stated, it's up to the buyer to buy. But if you DO state +4% paypal fee, paypal has the right to cancel your account for breaking the TOS. It's that simple.

This is exactly the same as a store you walk into who accepts credit cards. They have a TOS with the credit card processing company where they cannot say "we add 4% to all credit card purchases". It's exactly the same. It's the agreement you have made when you signed up for the service.

 

You know what I find kinda funny Cbab? This right here.

 

bunnydots : Of course I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're saying. I just don't have a clue on why mine doesn't show those sending/receiving limits when yours does, that's all.

I've been using my Premier account for almost 10 years now, I opened the personal one after that (then closed it cause I had closed the bank account I used for it and just recently opened a new one), but I've never had an issue with limits.

I guess I'll just have to check what I send and receive. You're right, there might be many reasons why and I haven't been paying attention.

 

WHAT the HECK????

COMICBOOKARTISTBOI-----How are you going to explain THIS one????

 

Perhaps it's something to do with your bank, or maybe because you also have a Premier account presumably under your own name. Our Premier account is under my husband's name for various reasons (it's linked to different credit cards and bank accounts for one).

I've found that there are a lot of variations on Paypal, so nothing surprises me about people's accounts. It's almost impossible to find out from Paypal how the stupid accounts work, I think they enjoy keeping us all a bit in the dark. no offense taken, I would certainly like to know how not to incur fees that I then have to charge the group order participants, as they add up to a point that would wipe out all of my savings from the group order and then some!

 

Well, to the fair, the thread doesn't seem to exist anymore and is dated from 2006. It could just be that comic changed his/her position regarding the matter since that time, as I did.

"Past history is no guarantee of future results."

 

But it does seem interesting that he seems to have conveniently forgotten to mention this while he's put up his own arguments against PP fees.

I'd like to see him try to explain that away as well.

 

No, but when you have done something like that before, it might be a good idea to not start a Paypal claim on someone doing the exact same thing you have done in the past and then brag about it on the forum. It looks pretty hypocritical. Sure, he might have changed his mind, but he still went way too far against the seller. It's not too far away from the girl who reported a seller to the police for marking down a doll head she sold.

 

Well don't get me wrong, "tattling" on a seller after the deal is done is pretty underhanded and I definitely did not agree that this was ethically right, Paypal policies or not. And I will also agree that by being so... vigorous about this fee issue, comic has lost quite a bit of credibility.

 

I would just like to point out that if you go to his feedback thread and read this post you will find this little gem as well.

If his ways are so changed now perhaps he should refund the Paypal fees that he charged and were due to be refunded to the buyer?

 

Stick a fork in him--he's cooked.

 

Wow, it would be nice to hear some explanation for this, Comicbookartistboi. How does one go from charging paypal fees to vehement objector of charging any paypal fees and calling out for mods to take a stand against this despicable act?

I'm not a mod and this is not a point up for debate, but I wanted to put up my opinion that it's a seriously bad idea for a forum of this size to try to enforce another website/company's policies. You can't stop at just one policy. You'll have to enforce all their policies. And then you'll have to watch out for Ebay links posted here. Then you have to consider the doll companies that do not allow certain dolls to be resold... So seriously not a good idea.

 

Wait, I'm confused... He had credibility to begin with?

His arguments have been kind of... lacking from my pov.

 

Whoa. Look like CBAB's going to have to do some wriggling there.

 

That would certainly be the honorable thing to do all things considered.

 

honestly, i don't mind paying paypal fees when i buy stuff if the seller asks. i've just (almost) finished a transaction in which i bought a DOT and paid paypal fees but i did feel it was worth it considering the seller's asking price was a pretty good deal and we are in different financial situations.

i think it just depends... if an item is worth paying the fee. i didn't think it was really a big deal till i saw this thread. but since i have a pretty reliable source of income where my paycheck is always no more than a week away, i really don't mind when a seller asks me to throw the 4% extra. it's less than our state tax... which here in washington is almost 9% now *scoff*

and say someone was selling something and they wanted not only what they paid for it with shipping but fees also, i think that might go a step too far. i don't have to buy. someone else will. but i've never really had any bad experiences so far with stuff like that so i don't have a really bias for comparison...

ramble ramble...

 

I've paid paypal fees in the past, and it didn't bother me either. Even if someone doesn't say they're charging fees doesn't mean it hasn't been factored into the price, and if it has and I was fine with the price anyway then what's the difference? (speaking from a buyer's perspective--I realize paypal has their own feeling about the matter) When I go to purchase a doll and the doll + shipping + fees is still a reasonable price that I'm willing to pay then I have no issue buying it. If the price seems too high or is more than I feel I can afford then I'll pass it up.

I can understand why paypal doesn't want sellers charging fees, but I can also understand why sellers would want to recoup the fee money since it is a business expense of sorts and business expenses are generally factored into prices.