Paypal fees discussion

I believe it's up to how the transaction discussions goes between the buyer and the seller. If they both agree to the buyer paying Paypal fees, then the buyer pays, or vice versa, or both splitting it in half. No harm asking,but might cause a few raised eyebrows.

 

Agreed... DoA needs to worry about enforcing DoAs policies... I think that might be enough to kill just about anyone without them having to police paypal, ebay, etc, etc, etc's policies as well.

 

Aww. I guess he ran away because he got called out and doesn't know how to answer. I guess we're never gonna get the full story.

 

. Its gone from a paypal fees discussion to the frying of CBAB . This is just horribly embarassing!
In any case, its been very helpful to find out who never to do business with!

 

I agree... some of the points that have been brought up have been very interesting up until recently. While I personally disagree with some of the points CBAB has made, I think the debate seems to have gone from a civilized discussion to an open persecution of him. Can we get back to discussing the actual debate topic instead of making derogatory comments? I think we've crossed the line between disagreeing with someone and attacking them.

 

It's not really attacking to approach someone and ask why they preach one thing and practice another. It's a debate, the point is to badger each other with some form of civility, and I sure haven't seen anyone make up anything unkind and untrue so far. All Neph did was post a screenshot and ask why he was being a hypocrite. Anything that is said or thought about him in regards to that proof is fair, until he clarifies his statements and position on the topic.

 

I don't object to the overall point of the post. Pointing out flaws in the logic of the other side's statements is all part of a real debate, if handled in a respectful way. As you said, "with civility".

However, I do feel that the overall mood and tone of this debate has changed. It's become more of a trial of CBAB's credibility than a discussion of the issue. Posts are no longer about the actual pros and cons or ethics of charging for Paypal fees. The debate has become "let's grill CBAB".

What I'm trying to say is that this discussion is no longer about whether people should or should not charge Paypal fees. It's about berating CBAB. Pointing out contradictions in his argument is all well and good if done in a civilized manner... but posts like these are not conducive to a mature discussion of the topic at hand, IMO:

I just think it's beginning to look a little like a "torches and pitchforks" mentality, which isn't the point of the debate section.

 

I guess I'm just curious why CBAB doesn't practice what he preaches. He was the one who was so vehemently against it- so I'm just wondering what changed his mind.

 

And that's what the mods for - ultimately it's up to their judgement if it's gone too far. If those posts, or future ones, are deemed too aggressive, they'll be deleted. As much as it is unkind to be 'bullies' on the internet, it is similarly unkind of him to tell falsehoods.

 

Well said. You can't go saying one thing, and doing another. It just comes off shady, and will bite you in the bum in the end.

 

I'm not a fan of sales posts that state up front that they charge paypal fees as it makes the price too cluttered. For ease I'd rather a seller just put it into the price of the item (if they care) so that I don't have to do the math. As for that being dodgy - once a seller sells an item what they do with their money is their buisness. They can put it towards their rent, paypal fees, lunch money or blow it all in some Vegas club. It becomes theirs to do with as they will. It's strange to get in some moral uprage over what someone choses to do with their own cash.

Paypal doesn't have the authority to tell users what they can do with their own money. They just don't want it advertised (ie. saying you charge paypal fees) as it makes their product look negative.

 

This only applies to US sellers with a volume of $20,000/year and 200 payments/year...and doesn't take effect until 2011.
I'd say this isn't going to have too much impact on our hobby.

 

I agree with that totally. I hope this serves as a fine example to deter anyone from doing this (preach and practise another).

 

I guess it's not the point of the thread, but it's something that DOA users need to know about. It seems that he ain't coming back to explain, because there's really no get out. It would kind of be nice for him to apologise and pay people any outstanding funds, because that's what right thinking people do.

Re: fees, I have ended up paying them, but I usually avoid sellers who charge them. I understand that all credit card payments made anywhere (even on the high street) require a fee to be paid by the seller. This is why you're supposed to ask for a discount if you pay in cash; companies factor in the credit card cost into the price of goods. If they won't discount then... well it's one of those 'legimate con' type situations.

I bought a couple of dolls from Dollstown and they charged me for Paypal, which I wasn't very keen on but I did really want the dolls. I'm not sure it says on their site anywhere in advance until you try to order. Don't get me wrong, I like Dollstown and will recommend buying from them to anyone, but that was very annoying.

 

For me, if it's something like a cheap outfit or shoes, then I don't think paypal fees matter because they don't take much anyway and it's petty when the seller wants thier extra 42 pence. When buying or selling more expensive things though like full dolls, expensive limited edition outfits, floating heads or bodies, then I think it's ok that the seller includes paypal fees in the item price.

Same goes for sending money to commisioners, or if someone helps you to buy something, like group orders and such. fees should be paid then too so the person who helps you doesn't get caught short of cash and has to cough up their own cash to cover the short fall.

Ok, so it's not ok by paypal standards, but if you don't publicise 'I am charging you for paypal fees' then there isn't really anything they can do.

When you buy things from shops, the price is higher then what they paid for it so that the item price covers their running costs. Charging paypal fees is kinda the same principle in my mind.

If the seller includes the paypal fees in the item price, and the item is still good value, then what is there to complain about? Everyone is happy then.

The only thing I wouldn't do is that if the seller doesn't say they're charging paypal fees, I would never offer 'Hey, if you want I can pay your fees too to be fair'. Because most people hide the fees in their item price, so if you then offer to pay the fees, you are paying the fees twice and the seller is laughing.

 

I'm not sure if its been covered, but is specifically requesting non credit card payments thru paypal the same as charging the fees themselves? In essence, it makes you the buyer pay the fee yourself instead of the seller. From a minimee group that I happen to be taking part in the moment that's coincidentally with CBAB

So, opinions?

 

Not really, on personal accounts payment done through e-check or from a paypal balance are not a transaction fee. So if you don't want to deal with calculating fees for group orders they you need to demand the payment come in a certain way.

 

I think group orders is a different subject. While I do mind getting charged paypal fees when I buy a doll second hand, I would think it natural to do so when I participate in a group order. After all, why should the organizer lose money to paypal when he or she is helping me get something I can't get on my own?

When a seller charges paypal fees, on the other hand, it really makes me wonder a) why they haven't just included it in the price and b) if I really should buy from someone who this clearly either don't know how paypal works or likes to ignore the rules. I wouldn't go as far as to do a chargeback or report them to paypal, but it would be a very good reason for me to not buy from them again.

 

Paypal never charges the buyer fees. You can pay with credit/debit card, instant transfer direct from your bank account, e-check, or from existing funds and there are no fees.
The seller with a personal account doesn't get charged fees either, unless they accept payment with credit/debit card.
The seller with a business or premier account gets charged fees for all transactions.

 

I don't think you can call the organizer of a group order a "seller." They're providing a free service to benefit everyone in the order (lower shipping costs, etc) and they aren't making any money out of it. They aren't selling you anything. If you don't pay the fees on the money you send them (which they don't keep, you aren't paying them) then they have to pony up extra money to send along to the store that you all are ordering from.

It's an entirely different situation than if you were buying a doll/items from them.