Paypal fees discussion

It's important to point out that this is ONLY with personal accounts though, once you make it a business account, it doesn't matter where the money comes from, you're going to get a fee.

I did a group order once where this was a problem because one of the people trying to pay with their paypal balance didn't believe I was being charged a fee.

 

I agree; a group order is an ENTIRELY different animal. The person is offering a service to a group, not selling you something of their own. They shouldn't be paying fees for the numerous individual orders they are processing for a group.

A personal sale - no they should not charge the Paypal fees. If they don't want to use Paypal & pay their handling fee for the service, then they should just operate via cash (money order, check, wire transfer etc) and send the item when it clears.

A group order - the person handling the GO isn't making anything off this, it's a service. Even if they get "points" or whatever from the company, they aren't directly making money, but they are however taking on all the burden & should not have to pay for the privilege of handling a GO.

 

you know what i find even funnier? The people, who are trying to dig up crap, for their wank forum, here, on DOA. The things you've managed to dredge up happend about 3 years ago, when i was newer to the hobby. I charged paypal fees one time, and then realized that it is not allowed. You've never in your life did something that you didn't realize was against the rules, or wrong, and then decided you'd never do it again? Of course, not, i'm sure you haven't. Hmmm...wow. How witty of you to drag that out!

It still does not change my past statements. It's wrong. It is against Paypal's TOS. And all of you trying to bring up crap from 3 years ago really doesn't prove much. People learn, and people change. But of course, being that you are trying to bring up more drama that you can screen cap, or quote for your wank forum, i'm really quite done worrying about what you think. I stick to what i've said here. People who charge Paypal fees are breaking the rules of the service, and it should be stopped. Sorry if you feel that I'm not allowed to feel that way, due to a past event. But your opinion is not going to change what i think of these actions now that i know the rules of using Paypal.

And my name is not "CBAB", thank you.

 

You're right; people make mistakes, and people can change. That being said, you do plan on reimbursing Rinoa for the fees you charged her, right?

 

It's fine if you feel that way comicbookartistboi. I don't think many people were disputing the fact that it was a violation. But you jumped into the morality of the matter without even admitting to the fact that you once charged Paypal fees. You never until now expressed it as a "Once I made the mistake of charging Paypal fees..." You simply took an extreme and rather conflicting stance against it. That's why this somehow seems to turn into a debate against you rather than a debate against the matter itself. You only now admit to your mistakes after having had someone shove your nose in it. There's nothing okay about that.

 

What people are doing is laying out the facts and history. They're not making anything up, they're not purposely unearthing random badness that isn't related to the debate at hand. The way you're saying it sounds like bringing up the past isn't allowed because this is DoA.

Just to be accurate, what's being brought up is actually incidents that happened. Not 'crap'. Nothing made up. And it just proves that it happened before.

Of course people make mistakes. Of course they can learn from it. That said, it's been three years and you still haven't refunded Rinoa the fees you charged her.

Also, when someone goes all out about how charging fees is wrong, they know it's wrong, they've filed complaints against sellers who charge it, they would never charge it, oh except yes, they did before, only they didn't bring it up in the long debate because...yeah. Doesn't sound good, does it?

 

um, why is this issue even coming up again. That was a transaction that was corrected LONG ago. Not to mention, quite frankly, what transpired was between Rinoa and myself. No one else. But thank you.

 

well, this is a debate. That is what we do. And it's not Your place, nor anyone else's place on here to shove anyone's nose in anything. What took place in my transaction with Rinoa is none of your concern, nor anyone else's. That belongs in the feedback forum. This is not a feedback forum, last i checked.

Also, i will state, that i have had one single problem in my 3 years of being on DOA. And even that was a debate in of itself, considering that the buyer lied about many aspects of the transaction, and that was also proven. So, please keep this thread back on the subject of how people feel about paypal fees, instead of trying to turn this into a "let's talk about comicbookartistboi's transactions that we were not even part of, and know nothing about outside of rumors, and he-said-she-said."

If i come back to this thread, i will not be responding to anything other than the subject of how people feel about Paypal fees. My history of transactions is not the subject at hand.

 

Intentionally omitting facts -- even 'historical' facts -- when trying to put up a strong debate argument negates your entire position. That's all there is to it.

It's not about that one transaction where the mistake was made. The actual transaction didn't even need to be mentioned. It is that the issue related to the matter at hand. The details of the mistake aren't important, it's just simply that the mistake is relevant to this debate and never brought to light or resolved.

 

I'm locking this thread for the evening. Thread will be reopened at some point tomorrow, at which point I hope that the discussion will head back to being about Paypal Fees and less about comicbookartistboi.

 

You know, I actually just did my first "big" sale (over $250) and I honestly didn't even know that the fee issue was such an ... issue. xD I asked the buyer to help me pay fees which she did with no complaint, but now seeing the general opinion of such a practice, I'll think twice if I ever sell again. I've paid fees to help when I've bought before without thinking twice about it; I just saw it as a way to avoid the seller losing more money. I'm glad I happened upon this thread; I feel more educated about the DoA community's opinion.

 

I didn't realise this was against the terms of service for private sales, I thought that was for businesses!!!

I'll amend all my threads right away

 

Eeek, I didn't know that listing paypal fees was illegal until just now. Pretty much I thought it was a norm. >.<

Prior to this, I would list them so that I could make back what I bought on a new item. I frequently buy doll items and never use them. They get tried on once at best sometimes. Usually I'll keep them for a few months unless I really have an aversion to them. But for that reason, since they're in new condition, I try to make back what I paid for them.

But, when it comes to group orders, I see nothing wrong with asking for paypal fees because it's the person doing the order who would have to pay for all that. The one group order I had ended up with probably $30 or more in paypal fees with everyone combined. That's a bit much to ask a the runner to pay, and that was for a rather small GO.

 

I get a little squeamish when I see mention of fees being asked for because of the Paypal TOS.

A great number of financial service providers charge similar fees; anyone you see accepting Visa/Mastercard and other credit cards for sales is also being charged a percentage on each transaction they process that comes out of the amount they are paid. (My mother and I sell jewelry at shows, we've gone through this fun and frolic first hand.) Like Paypal, if they find out you're asking for a special fee to accept credit cards to account for the percentage they charge, they absolutely will revoke your account. We've found that it's worthwhile to eat that loss, or adjust prices accordingly on new items we produce, to account for the difference -- or if someone pays cash on a larger order, we may give them a small percentage -off- the standard retail purchase price. Ever see stores with 'pay in cash' discounts? Not too different -- getting cash saves bank fees in case a check bounces or is stopped, and any credit card processing fees, both of which can add up!

That said, we saw a distinct boom in sales the moment we started to accept credit cards. The difference in sales volume more than made up for the piddly amount we were being charged in fees. I suspect it is -quite- similar when it comes to Paypal -- imagine for a moment how long things may take to sell if you decided to only accept cash, checks, or some similar 'no fees attached' method. Not only would the process be slower unless you lucked out and were able to meet someone face to face, but I suspect it would also mean a smaller chance of selling the item at all.

That said, like many have commented, I have no issue with people asking for fees for group orders. Even if, instead of the 4% or whatever it is for paypal, someone asked for a 5% handling fee or something similar to help cover the costs of paypal, packing materials (since those aren't free either!), and time spent, I feel I'd be getting a good deal for all the trouble they're going through to make it easier on me to get my items -- because it would probably still be cheaper than if I just ordered a handful of small items from a company and paid all the EMS costs myself.

 

I personally think it's a bit cut and dry. Group orders: of course you should be able to charge for paypal fees- it makes complete sense. Otehrwise you would end up footing some of the bill for peoples items. It is possible to get around this by asking the group participants to select "payment owed" and in that case they can just choose to pay the fees on your behalf. That stops it being illegal (in the EU it is illegal to charge Paypal fees you see anyway).

I am also a strong believer in not charging Paypal fees for your own items sold. I don't do it, and don't buy from anyone who does it (Exception with GO's).

So all in all, I believe that Paypal fee's should not be charged with the exception of GO's.

 

Tried this with Japan Auction Center who are a middle man buying service for Japan auctions and shops, it didn't work. I went through so many levels of the compaints and "dob in a violation" process and in the end I was told to

I reported it but it didn't help, I'm going to report it again and see if I get a different response from a different staff member.

I thought the rule only applied to business not to individuals!! But there you go, there's always something new to learn!!

 

I created paypal personal account for myself deciding that I will only accept non-cc payments = no fees = no problem. LOL. I had had to create another account pretty fast, many people don't understand what non-cc means... ^^; I thought it's the best to accept both kind of payments, cc with fees, non-cc with no fees - the buyer could choose...

Now it doesn't matter since paypal has changed their policy. I don't ask for personal payments when selling because I am afraid something would happen to my account (I had been allowing personal payments right after the change, while trying to figure out everything, but one buyer wrote "payment for... " in the paypal notes... wtf ) but I allow them when running a split or a GO. As for the sales... At the moment I don't charge any fees, I hate calculating them (don't tell me about paypal fees calculators - never ever calculated the fees all right for me, I had always been getting charged more than they said), but I do consider them when thinking up the price for my item. I still would charge for full dolls, though - 50$ is a lot for me.

Obviously sellers charging paypal fees don't bother me. Sellers how want their buyers to calculate the fees themeselves do bother me. In this case I open the very first paypal fee calculator that google had found for me... If the seller gets too little, well, sorry, I asked for my total *with* the fees.

 

Well, I was specifically talking about the Mastercard/VISA terminals and systems -- but paypal does have that reporting feature, yep. Whether they do anything with theirs, I don't know, but when we signed on for the Mastercard/VISA setup, we got one heck of a lecture about how if it was even suspected, accounts could be suspended and so on.

 

I try to never charge fees unless I'm doing a Group Order. Sometimes, if I know the fees are going to be a large chunk of the payment I receive (I don't know, I seem to get charged more than usual sometimes >_<) I might ask if the buyer wouldn't mind covering some of it, or sending the payment as a payment owed, but I'm going to stop doing this as I know you can't do charge-backs on a payment owed and although I don't anticipate being a bad seller (), as a buyer I would prefer to only use that option with sellers I trust. I feel eating the fees is a small price to pay for buyer peace-of-mind. That said, I won't refuse if someone chooses to send me the payment that way ^_^

I try to pay the fees wherever I can, whether they're asked for or not. If I can afford to, I will, and I use the payment owed option with buyers I know won't screw me Otherwise I just add a little extra on. While I don't really have any reason for doing this, I like to think that if someone is surprised by not having to pay the fees on an item they've sold to me, they might decide to do it for someone else in the future, and they might feel the same, and so on ^_^ It's a little way to spread some positive cheer in the Marketplace

However, I (try to) steer clear of sellers who charge PP fees up front. Since I try to avoid charging fees wherever possible (and when I run AS Group Orders, I pay the 4% fees they charge me on top of the 4% I am charged by paypal which I ask participants to pay, because I feel asking for 8% fees is a bit much) I also dislike people who won't eat the fees themselves - particularly when it's only a cheap item and the fee only comes to something like $1.

 

I understand when someone wants to charge fees as part of a group order because that just makes sense to me... they are running a group order for the benefit of everyone involved and not for themselves. I mean like... the BIG HASSLE of keeping track of who wants what and how much everyone owes sucks a big one already and then you have to eat $20 + in fees! Then you'd be PAYING for the stress! I don't ever want to have to take on the responsibility of a group order!

For all other commissions etc... well... meh, I don't mind paying the fees but having the fees included in the original prince would, yes, be avoiding the 'legal' issues when it comes to paypal not allowing sellers to charge fees from the buyer.

It doesn't matter to me either way. But after hearing about how many of you vehemently disagree with the ethics of charging fees and how many of you simply don't buy from people who charge fees I suppose then that I would just include the fees in with my price lol