Paypal fees discussion

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but the best way to get around the "paypal" fee TOS issue is to give a discount for other payment methods. I may have actually read this suggestion on Ebay prior to their new policy about other payment methods. (they really have us by the short hairs now) This avoids the entire charging a "paypal fee" and does not violate the TOS for paypal or ebay.

As I have said before, the fees associated with paypal are to pay for the safety net that it provides for both the buyer and the seller. The seller avoids bounced checks (with their 25 dollar fee) and gets instant payment while the buyer gets protection in case of non receipt.

For group orders I think that a service fee would be in order, one that is some percentage of your order that would cover the costs of running the group order with no reference to "paypal fees".

 

i think that the fee should be split evenly between buyer and seller. i think that's fair for everyone involved, and that 50% of the fee should be worked into the price when the item is put up for sale.

 

Usually I just chalk it up to overhead. I have a general term for "S&H" and it covers everything from buying mailing supplies to postage to fees. Usually it covers most of the postage if not a part of the mailing supplies. (boxes and bubble wrap can be expensive)

In home business books they suggest building in overhead prices so it doesn't gouge you so much.

The only place I list out how much each transaction cost me is in the monthly business expenditures and my taxes at the end of the year. That's also where I tally up all the boxes and how much they cost me, all the postage and how much it cost me. But in general that category is called overhead. I also use it to cover the sales tax I pay to the BoE every year. (I include sales tax with the price..."I made this much so I owe this much in sales tax")

And my S&H is never very high. As I said, usually it just covers the postage and maybe the box or the envelop. Forget about fees or gas or anything else. I actually lose a lot of money with International. But... oh well. As long as I'm not too far in the red at the end of the year.

And have you looked at the price of gas these days? Last year I did the math. It cost me $3 a round trip to the closest post office (When local gas prices spiked past $5 a gallon). That's $3 I could have spent elsewhere. I once had to spell it out for someone who asked "Why pay $3 for $2.50 in postage?" Well... $2.50 postage + $1.60 box + $3 gas round trip= $7.10. Even without the gas, that's still $1.10 out of my own pocket. And during an oil crisis it was even more so. Many places upped their fees to cover gas prices. I will spell it out for them if they like, but they really are getting the better deal.

 

Honestly, Paypal fees are why I have not yet considered selling clothing I make.
The fees will take too much of what I charge for the item, and trying to calculate things is takes more time than I have to devote to selling.

 

I guess this bit is sort of ranting and giving advice thing, but it's just my two cents worth so please don't take offense, it's merely my own opinion and hopefully can actually be helpful to some starting off ^^;......
As a seller I, myself, don't normally charge paypal fees as I'm seeing it as payment for the transfer. Should I ever wish to charge such fees I'd just go ahead and either include it in the price or make the price to where it won't take a big chunk out from me and simply not say anything about fees as it would be pointless to do so by then as it may just be considered my "regular" cost. There are folks that charge more than "original" cost for various other reasons other than paypal fees, so why not just go ahead and calculate that into the total and save the buyer time and a headache. Is it really so hard for a seller to go ahead and add the extra few dollars into the base total? No. It's not like shipping costs (which can vary) where you do have to figure out a total that can be different. Granted paypal fees are considered an optional fee because a seller doesn't have to charge the buyer with it (and of course depending on how you look at the paypal rules, should even charge it), but it's not like other optional fees where the buyers have a can have a choice of options. You either charge it or don't, but don't make it any more complicated than it should be. Of course it's totally up to the seller how they wish to charge their item as they see fit, but as a seller I always have to consider if it's gonna annoy me as a buyer, it's probably gonna annoy a bunch of other buyers too. So my only gripe about paypal fees being charged is not whether a seller should charge them or not, but is that I'm seeing lots of sellers basically asking the buyer to calculate the cost themselves when they don't, and really shouldn't, have to. (ex. - cost= $200 + 4% paypal fee, just go ahead and say the cost is $208 if paypal fees are mandatory) If one is unsure how to charge the extra paypal fee, consider you're most expensive cost, do that one calculation and base the "extra" on that or base it in ratios (ex. -using the 4% fee, $100 is an addition of $4 = $104, $50 is an addition of $2, $25 is $1, etc.)

As a buyer, I personally find it bothersome to be asked to calculate fees for the seller when wanting to buy something as I find it's an annoyance to try and figure out how much to pay for something that I may just be mildly interested in. Working in a customer service field, one thing I learned early on (in fact it's one of the first things I was taught) is that if the customers feel they have to "work" or be inconvenienced over a product (whether it's information or literally troublesome to get to) they'll simply move on to the next competitor and that's a sale lost. Buyers generally want a quick and hassle free buying experience.
Sure, potential buyers could leave the page to another site to get calculations done, but in reality, you'll want to avoid that. The longer they move from your "sales" page, the more likely they'll look elsewhere or lose interest. Sure some could pull out a calculator, but not everyone is great working with one (or in some case even have one) and find it a headache. And not everyone is great in math ( I'm sure an example of that as that's my worse subject lol ^^; ).
A seller could feel that the customer is being lazy for not doing the calculations, but the same can be viewed about the seller. So long story short, again, if your gonna charge extra fees, you're better off just going ahead to include them in the total if it's considered a mandatory (must have) cost. Just setting aside the fee cost separately may make the price seem cheaper, but it's more hassling in the long run and is more or less "eye-candy" (catches your attention, but not always worth the effort). I could say more, but will leave it at this ^^

 

Ooh I haven't posted in here yet...
I don't have a problem with people charging paypal fees, I do it myself on sales over $100. I would never make the buyer calculate it themselves but I do believe a seller should at least be able to recover costs on the item they are selling (especially if they are selling for less than they paid). Yes, they could just add the fee in the price but if its an auction or the seller is taking offers, there is no way a seller could add to the price after the biddings/offers were over. There is a compromise to the paypal fee, the buyer could pay as "payment owed" from their paypal balance or instant transfer, that way everyone wins. I know a problem with that could be then a buyer would not be protected because its not a purchase transaction. Although I wouldn't recommend buying from someone you couldn't trust in the first place which makes that fear kind of irrelevant to me.

I know even if a seller doesn't mention or charge fees I always pay by 'payment owed' just as a courtesy to them. Besides I seriously doubt if the item is rare and the price is right, paypal fees would stop anyone from buying their dream doll.

 

I never charge paypal fees and don't bother to look at sales thread that begin with "+4% paypal fees" unless they are selling my dream doll/trousers/etc. and even then, the fee bothers me (and unless it's a group order,of course)

not only they shouldn't be charging them, as paypal states, but they bother me having to do the math calculation to check how much should I pay. I agree with Ayperi: if you are going to charge fees, just add them to the base sales price and avoid potential buyers closing your sales thread

 

I don't feel it's good or professional practice for a seller to charge fees on top of the item price. If they are worried about that money, it should be rolled into the cost of an item to make it convenient for the buyer.

I feel PayPal's fees are very reasonable since brick and mortar stores, as well as online stores that accept credit cards direct, are charged for their transactions too. PayPal has enabled me as a DIYer to increase my sales through more payment options, and unless their fees get outrageous, I'm happy to pay for that service.

Bottom line... in the US, it's only 3 cents per dollar plus a 30 cent base fee. If I'm selling a $5 item and really care that much about the 45 cents fee, I'll just list the item for $5.45 and give everyone less of a headache.

 

To me there's a difference between charging paypal fees and taking paypal fees in to account.

If someone who is selling something works out beforehand what the paypal fees should be and adds that to the listing price I have no issues with it.

However, when they ask me, the customer, to go to the trouble of doing the math for them it seems lazy. To me that says "I want your money, but for what it's worth you can jump off a cliff while giving them to me".

 

If a seller is concerned about paypal fees they should charge more for the initial item rather than say btw I want to you to pay for the paypal fees as well.

 

I dont charge for paypal fees and I personally avoid people who do (the ones who say, " Oh, by the way...") so I agree with most people here. Then again, I hate paypal so I would pray to find a seller that doesnt deal with themXD

 

I don't charge fees on merchandise but I have started charging fees on international shipping. One thing that most of you don't mention is that paypal charges fees on the total, not just on the item, that includes shipping

To use the example above of a 5.00 item


5.00 item

5.25 priority mail shipping

.70 delivery confirmation

----------------------

10.95 total

.64 Paypal fees for a 5.00 item so that 5.00 - .64 = 4.36 the seller is actually getting for their 5.00 item.

 

paypal calculator here:


http://www.rolbe.com/paypal.htm

 

I do a lot of selling through paypal and I never make people pay the paypal fees. Even if they ask. As a seller, I am the one that clicked ot agree to paypals EULA, so I knew when I set up the account I'd be paying fees. If I didn't like, then I would have chosen a different method. It's my responsibility to handle. No one else s~

 

I just want to add a warning about paying for item with your paypal balance through the personal tab to save seller fees. I bought a doll off of the Doll Pages. The seller asked if I could send money through the personal tab to save them fees. It turned out the person was a scammer and walked away with 1000's of dollars from many buyer. They got me for $135. Ebay does not consider the personal tab payments a purchase but a gift and WILL NOT investigate the transaction. If you do pay through the personal tab with your credit card you might be able to get your credit card to do a charge back.
After this I will pay the seller fees to let me use my credit card. I will no longer pay for an item with my paypal balance. I can not afford to get burned again. Paypal has protection but they also have rules you have to follow to get that protection I learned the hard way.
One other paypal warning for pre buys. Paypal has a small window to get your money back if the deal goes bad. I purchased a pre buy item last winter from a dealer who is still in business and weeks after the item came out I had not gotten the doll. I contacted the seller and they told me because I chose the free shipping I had no insurance or tracking number and they were no responsible for lost packages. Paypal informed me the time frame was to long they could do nothing. This time I used my credit card. Discover did a charge back and got me my money back.

 

I never charge fees on little items, and on big items (dolls, outfits worth over $100), I usually calculate the fees into the price so the buyer doesn't have to deal with it...and often if i think the fee marks the items up to much, i just divide it in half, or to whatever fraction makes the total price reasonable to me. Sometimes I even forget to add the fees into my price and when that happens, I just go with it. I would never EVER say "and, oh yea, I forgot, this much for fees". I didn't take the time to calculate it, so the buyer is not responsible for it.

The only thing I would ask for the fees covered, and blatantly SAY it was for the fees, would be if I was running a GO. And that makes sense to me because if you're sending me the payment for your item, and it's taking you know..a few dollars here...some dollars there...add it all up and I could be paying a significant number out of pocket to cover other people's items. I don't mind..occasional..and a few dollars, but in a GO setting, it can really add up. When I join GO's I make sure to calculate the fees the host would be charged on my items, and I add that in so I have FULLY paid for my items.

 

With offers it's not that hard to make a calculation yourself. If PP fees are 4% and someone offers you $100, you'll get 96% of the offer. Effectively the offer would be $96 and you base your decision to accept the offer on that.
With auctions it's not that different. 96% of your starting bid should be the lowest amount you are willing to sell the item for. Everything above the starting bid is a bonus.

That would making buying options very limited. I can't know everybody here on DoA or at other places where dolls and doll items are sold. Effectively most sellers are strangers and would you trust all strangers you encounter? Most people are decent, but for the few who aren't it's nice to have the protection PayPal offers.

 

I feel like I'm the only one that has no idea what paypal fees actually are, I've never noticed them at all. I know that it's around 2-4% but I've bought and sold using paypal and have never noticed any fees. So obviously for that reason I don't charge the fees haha. It might be nice having them just so I could see what they are, I feel like I'm missing out on common knowledge >.>

 

I tend to avoid people who charge paypal fees because I usually find they're the most unrealistic sellers. It's usually accompanied by "I'd like to get back what I paid etc". Well, I'd like a brand new BJD that I don't have to worry about secondhand damage for the same money I would pay for a new one regardless of how long the company may make me wait. I've gotten to the stage where I see paypal fees extra and I figure it's a way of rorting extra cash out of the buyer by making the purchase price look cheaper. Group orders I don't mind as we're splitting costs but otherwise, I give it a miss.

 

The problem with paypal fees sometimes is that some sellers include the fee within the price of the doll already. These sellers just don't say they're covering the fee within the price of the doll. So when you judge someone unreliable because they explicitly state in their post that they charge a fee, think twice because there are sellers that have fee inclusive in the price of the doll and don't state that they are charging at all.