Paypal fees discussion

Exactly!

I personally wouldn't take this as a matter of being unethical. It depends on what your good reasons for morality are then. If a person believes that "morality is about maximizing the utility to provide the maximum pleasure within the community" (Utilitarian philosophy of ethics), then it would be unethical for him or her to charge Paypal fees. (B/c it makes most people unhappy in the eyes of that person.)

For the first day of law class, everyone learns than laws and morals are completely different. They can be related but it's important to distinguish these two. As an example, it's not illegal to see someone jump off the cliff without helping them. But it is, I would think to most people, unethical to do nothing to help the person.

I personally don't see someone charging paypal fees as a person without moral principles.

Edit:
In addition, many people in the end say that "Business is Business" but do some really explain a good ethical reason to why paypal fees are unethical. Some people believe it is unethical because it doesn't maximize the pleasure of the community or vice versa. (Utilitarian philosophy) Others believe that it is unethical to pay the fee because it is your *duty* as a seller to bear the cost whether you like it or not. In fact, according to Kant's idea, you are only moral when you hate paying the fee and you pay anyway. (Immanuel Kant's ethics) For free market thinkers like Milton Friedman, unless there is force (positive~aka assault), or fraud (having gone against state/federal laws) then there shouldn't be regulation in the free market. To him, a rational human being can be drunk but for that drunk to pay a penny more than a liquor store elsewhere, he/she is irrational.

 

I mentioned before in a previous post that unless you are paying by credit card you really don't have much protection even if you pay via purchase. Paypal only guarantees a refund if its a qualified ebay transaction. If not, they can only give you anything if the person has anything in their account, which if they were trying to cheat you in the beginning would be highly unlikely by the time you reported it. Paying via credit card only protects you cause most credit cards offer charge backs for unsatisfied customers. Only mentioning it again cause I think its important that people know just because you pay purchase doesn't necessarily mean you are going to get your money back if things go array.

edit-- I agree with you Inmylove, I don't see it as an ethical matter either just because you charge fees doesnt make you a person with no/loose morals.

 

I have a question for anyone who successfully received their money back from a disputed sale using a debit or credit card through Paypal.

What impact did that have on your paypal account? Did Paypal send you any letters if so what did they entail and was there an long term effect on your paypal account?

 

1.) I do not add PP fees. I know how much it sucks that PP takes the fees to begin with but I began as a business in 2002 and was selling Teddy Bears on ebay and to allow for CC I had to go with a PP business account. It allowed me to accept CC and I was glad to pay for that as I know stores do as well, just add it to the price like has been mentioned.

2.) I understand when people ask for fees, but I use the calculator not what they say as I am sure it changes but if we agree on what I am paying then it's fine. I do prefer to buy from someone like me who will pass on fees but having some one in USA and will insure the package is more important then $3.

3.) There are ways around PP like checks & MO and I see a lot more people passing on using that option due to time pure and simple. So PP fees love them or hate them, as a seller I don't ask and as a buyer it's a call I make more on where the doll is then the price.

 

I see nothing unethical with stating that part of the price of an order is to cover the charge for the payment type. That said, I will more than likely go with the seller that has given me the price inclusive rather than exclusive of charges. This isn't because I think their unethical, but because I (like most of joe public) am lazy.

You have to admit though, that it's a sad situation when people would like a seller to up the price on all sales (therefore overcharging on cheaper payment types) rather than just up the price for the paypal sales. They're basically saying that if they're going to use an overcosted service, they want everyone else to be ripped off.

Overall, my advice to sellers would probably be to either just sell at the higher price and get bonus profit from anyone paying by a sensible method, or sell at the higher price and offer a discount to anyone paying by a sensible method. You can charge £100 with £5 off for cash payment and people will be happy thinking that they're saving money. Charge the same group of people £95 plus a £5 charge for using paypal, and they'll be angry thinking that they're paying extra money.

 

Wow, PayPal fees are illegal? I will keep that in mind when I start my commissions in one year. I'm so confused on how the whole PayPal system works but wow, this thread is really interesting and eye-opening! Can someone please explain how PayPal works in a whole to me? Please?

 

Although they are a breach of Paypal contract I can understand why someone running a business would ask for fee payment, same goes for someone running a group order as they would otherwise be out of pocket simply by making purchases for other people.

For individual personal sales however I find adding fees incredibly distasteful, greedy, and will pretty much avoid doing business with anyone who charges them. If you are going to charge them, add it into your asking price so folk are none the wiser.

The rules were written in the contract we all signed when we created our accounts so pleading ignorance is no excuse, fees are part of using Paypal so just accept it or don't use Paypal!!

 

Hear hear!!

I sometimes offer to add paypal fees to transactions as a buyer if I particularly like the person I'm dealing with or feel I'm getting an especially good deal, but generally if someone says "$x +shipping +paypal fees/personal payment" then I just close the tab and find someone else even if they have exactly what I want. >(

 

yes to this! i don't want to have to do all the maths, i just want to know the price you are charging. for me it's not about ethics just ease of use.

 

I will not bid on an auction if paypal fees are extra. I would never charge the buyer fees if they buy from me.

 

I have never been asked to pay paypal fees. I have had many such transactions. The cost of the item should cover the fee in my opinion.

 

As a ebay seller i don't mind when paypal takes the fee out most of the time it's only a few dollars. if i was selling some thing over 1000 us then i may consider applying the fee to the final sale but other then that i'm cool.. as a buyer although i do not think it's fare as sometimes in different countries the us dollar is not worth much..

 

I agree completely with this comment. Especially with the greed comment. The percentage paypal charges is so small, the fee the seller has to pay is negligible compared to the money they'll be getting, and I avoid people who charge it out of principal.
It is common, everywhere else in the world, for the seller to pay fees. Heck, real life auctions charge fees. You, the person attempting to sell something, are paying to use the service. You shouldn't charge the buyer the fee, because without the buyer, you get no money. Period.

To be completely honest, DoA is the only place I have ever done business as a shopper, where people expect to be reimbursed the cost of making a sale.

Just build the fee in if you have to... Raise the price by $10 if you're selling a doll, because someone who's willing to spend $500 on a doll is not going to even consider $10 a deterrent.
If you absolutely must, offer a discount to people willing to pay by other methods. Whereas stating you charge paypal fees comes off as a deterrent, or almost a punishment as paypal seems to be the most secure way to do online sales, offering discounts for other payment methods comes off as an incentive. It's something I noticed in myself and friends thanks to a local restaurant that didn't charge delivery fees, but offered a pick up discount. It's really interesting how simply changing the way the fee is worded or included really changes the buyer's outlook.

 

While I agree that it's no big deal for paypal to apply fees to transactions since they ARE a business and need to make money somehow, but I don't quite agree with it right now.

Since I'm a poor college student I need every single dollar I have. Otherwise I'd end up having to go to my parents and ask for money--money of which they have none to spare on me. So when I receive payments via paypal I just... always get so frustrated. I mean, there are ways to get every cent in the payment if you have them send the payment as a "personal" payment, but it would be rude to tell people how to send the payment if I didn't specify before they send the payment.

It's frustrating. The fees are frustrating. Paypal can even be frustrating at times. Which is why I will continue to wish for a free internet-run direct deposit system that's safe and easy like paypal.

 

I do agree with the adding the fees to the asking price, be in on the MP or elsewhere. One thing I noticed is that many Chinese companies charge additional paypal fees; the first few times i bought from them, I learnt about the paypal fee only when I was checking out. by then it was too late to back out because I've already spent DAYS preparing my order. so sometimes a doll or item that seems to cost lesser can cost up to the same price as a similar doll or item from another company that doesn't charge paypal fees. Personally, I'd understand if sellers want buyers to pay the additional charge, however, I'd rather they just add the fees to the asking price so we know the actual price UPFRONT and not until the last moment. I am not rich and I do compare and plan my expenses when making purchases. sometimes, I'll just go ahead and buy if I really want the item (regardless of the cost), but it can be a real piss-off if I'm already set to make my purchase only to find out I have to pay more for it and my budgeting all goes down the drain.

 

How do you think Paypal stays in business? They aren't a charity. Somebody has to pay for those servers, employees, etc.

I personally wouldn't trust a safe and free Paypal. It may be free to you, but the business has to be getting something out of it. Namely your personal information.

 

This!

I just don't get the confusion about this, and agree entirely with you here.

Paypal is a service. It's not like it's free for any given store -- from local artists at fairs to Target/Walmart -- to accept credit cards; there are fees attached that are folded into the pricing for any given business. It is part of the price of doing business, period. When selling, you are doing business, even if you, yourself, are not a business.

I can see, when sharing expenses among a group as in the case of a group order, making the fees relevant -- that's friends/people/whoever pooling funds, not party A selling an item to party B. It's just another of the expenses that's being split up and handled as appropriate in that case.

 

I don't appreciate it when sellers make me pay a paypal fee. : / They knew when using it to accept money they would be charged, so they should get over it. Especially since it is illegal to charge for fees on Paypal anyway.

When I have sold things, I just took the fee in stride.

 

The only time I charge a PayPal fee is when I'm running a group order because it's a service rather than a sale. I wouldn't be able to place the group order if I had to pay the fees on $500+ worth of merchandise.

However, if I'm just selling clothes or something, I don't charge extra. It's easier for me to just charge for the item and shipping rather than taking time to calculate fees based on location and price. ^^

 

I agree with the above post entirely! I owned a retail/service business for over 8 years. Credit card companies charge a percentage to the retailer to use their services. Usually it is around 3.5% (+/-). The business builds this fee into the cost of doing business. PP fees are in line with the Credit Card companies fees to accept credit card transactions.

There are NO PP fees if you have your payment deducted from your PP Balance or use a direct bank account withdrawl. I have NEVER charged the fees back to any of my buyers. EVER! In the case of a group order, it is a different scenario altogther.