Paypal fees discussion

Yes, I've also seen one company charge Paypal fees too. I was really surprised myself. The only reason I didn't cancel my order was because I so VERY desperately wanted that doll (she has since become one of my favourites). Sellers on DoA charging fees annoys me, but an actual BJD company doing it is... *grumble*

As for me, I don't charge PP fees at all.

 

If PayPal fees are "illegal" (and I'm not sure just whose laws they are violating beyond PP TOS rules and State laws against surcharges) I am quite surprised that there hasn't been a ruling by DoA Moderators against charging fees in the Marketplace. This would simplify matters and make it "illegal" (by DoA's laws) to charge the buyer PP fees in the DoA Marketplace. (Group orders would have to be an exception, if GO leaders had to foot the bill for fees it would place a quick end to Group Orders as we know them).

So -- How 'bout it, mods???? A simple Marketplace rule -- no fees allowed????

 

As a whole, banning does't really fix anything since the sellers can just include PP fees into the prices (as some already do in their selling prices). Also that would be so bad for people selling to other countries since the PP fees are atrocious for sellers outside of US selling to US buyers and vice versa.

I think the fair way to deal with PP fees would be to split the loss. Or at least prevent people from rounding up the percentage (but then again... there's a percent AND couple of cents per every dollar). I think it's fine when sellers include the PP within the price.

 

In my country, it's perfectly normal to charge Paypal fee to the buyer. Everyone is ok on your markets and we always send the product price + Paypal fee. ^^"

 

Adding PayPal fees to the selling price (I really don't have a problem with that) would at last give the buyer a fixed amount to consider up front. PP fees can vary from 2.9% to 4% depending on ???? -- don't really know what this percentage is based on, but there are variations. If I'm spending $300 on a doll, I'd want to know exactly how much extra it would be up front - could be as much as $12. Admittedly, PP fees are not huge, but if they are the seller's responsibility then the seller should pay, adjusting the asking price if necessary, don'cha think???

 

I won't charge paypal fees and perfer to not pay them. I think if you're that concerned about losing money you need to take the fees into consideration when pricing.

 

Paypal fee are like shipping fee to us. Yes, we can to include them in the doll price, but we don't. Maybe it's because we can easily use more payment methods, so they don't have to be "in" the price.

 

It would be hard to enforce across countries, yes? As DoA is an international board, though we all apparently speak fluent or almost fluent English.

 

This discussion has been going in circles for years. One more time:

It is not illegal (as in breaking a law or statute) for sellers to charge PayPal fees, nor to request personal payments.

It is a breach of contract for eBay sellers to charge PayPal fees or for any sellers to request personal payment for goods or services.

The complete PayPal User Agreement is available here. It is a form of contract. Everyone with a PayPal account has agreed it its terms and fees, where applicable, in exchange for the use of the PayPal service.

I will quote the section bearing on this discussion:

4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.



4.2 Use of PayPal on eBay. Sellers who offer PayPal as a payment method in their eBay listings must follow these requirements:

1. Accept PayPal if the eBay listing includes PayPal as a payment method.
2. Accept all PayPal Payment Methods from a buyer, including but not limited to eCheck and credit cards.
3. Have a Premier or Business account or be willing to upgrade to a Premier or Business account upon receipt of a payment.
4. Accept international PayPal transactions if the eBay listing offers shipping outside the US.
5. Sellers may not charge a surcharge for accepting PayPal as a payment method.

I believe at one time that last item appled to all sellers, not just eBay, but I don't have a copy of the prior versions of the agreement to compare.

Aside from all the technicality, charging PP fees is just plain annoying. You can charge whatever you like for your item, just set it high enough to satisfy yourself after PP fees are deducted. I try to avoid doing business with anyone who charges fees, but I have done so, even though annoyed.

Requiring a personal payment for a high priced item looks very suspicious as well as a clear breach of contract, and I would never do business with such a person.

 

I agree whole-heartedly.

 

I have been selling on and off eBay for years using PP. Never have I asked for fees. I just consider it part of doing business. It would be like going into a restaurant and having the tip automatically added to my bill.
Which has happened, and let me tell you, they didn't get a tip at all!

When I see something on the MP where they are asking for PP fees, I hit the back button and won't even look. It just isn't right to me.

It is like the people only wanting cash or money order for a large payment doll. Yeah, right, I don't think so.

 

I think it's annoying when people charge Paypal fees - I like to see exactly what I'll be paying as soon as I click on the ad without having to calculate Paypal fees. I also like it when the seller includes shipping in the price. If I see an item that has price + PP fees + shipping, I always feel the need to contact the seller to get an exact quote on how much I'll be paying. This might not sound like such a hassle, but it's awkward if I decide not to purchase the item.

However, I would never refuse to do business with someone because of it. It does bother me when I pay for something that doesn't specify if Paypal fees are required, and then later the seller tells me to send more money to cover the fees.

When I sell something, I never make the buyer pay the fees (or shipping). I do factor in about how much I'll lose from fees/shipping when I set my price, though.

 

I still don't agree with that. I think Paypal is spawn of the devil and would only like money orders and would only pay with money orders. Just because someone wants to pay or be paid with them does make them automatically shady or bad people.

/Ontopic. Though I don't use paypal, if there were some sort of other weird fee by using a card, I wouldn't mind paying it. I'm buying it, it's my responsibility, I want the product. I, as a seller, wouldn't want my profit or monetary gain dug into just because of some fee. Just include it in the price, some people probably wouldn't even notice whether they paid 10 dollars for shoes vs 12 dollars for shoes, etc. I doubt they'd say "I think I paid the paypal fee!"

 

I don't ask for fees when I sell, though I'll take them if the customer offers to pay them. I really dislike when sellers ask for them, if they mention that they ask for them in their sales thread I can forgive it, but if they suddenly spring them on me when I'm going to pay I consider it really rude. My general additude is that if you are that concered about money add them to the price of the doll, it's not hard.

Several times now, I have not left feedback for someone because I'm not sure what to say. Do I complain that they made me pay fees without mentioning it in the sales thread and pontentionally cause a fight that I don't need, or leave them positive feedback anyway, because most of the trasaction was positive, I just didn't like that one issue?

 

As a seller, I NEVER charge fees. I typically include shipping as well, at least domestically. It's SO much easier to decide to buy something by looking and going "Ok, it's going to be $300 total" than by going "Ok...it's $295 plus shipping, which could be anywhere from free to $60, plus PP fees, and I've seen sellers charge from 2% to 12%" (yes, I actually HAVE seen a charge that high....) I want to know exactly what I'm spending, no hidden fees, and do the same for buyers when I'm selling.

You are using PP to help you sell and receive funds, it's your job to pay for their services. It is a business expense and should be figured into the cost. How would people react if Wal-Mart suddenly started tacking on a 5% extra charge to use a charge card? Or if McDonald's started charging extra money if you want your food wrapped and want employees to wear gloves while preparing it? I think people in general react better to a small price increase than an extra "fee" for business expenses.

 

I don't charge paypal fees, either. As a seller, I believe it is my responsibility to absorb the fees myself. I think it's silly to have someone sit there and calculate "ok well whats 2.9% of x + 30 cents?"

I just don't find it fair ^^; Especially since I have math learning disabilities, I like to make it as easy as possible for a buyer to buy my items.

Regarding shipping, I won't include that in the price because I prefer the buyer to choose their shipping method first. I do, however, always have the shipping prices handy so when they ask I can provide the exact shipping price.

 

Isn't this thread sort of moot at this point? Apparently (I have only used this feature recently though it may have been around for some time) you can simply ask the buyer for a final total of $XXX for an item after everything is said and done as paypal now clearly allows the buyer the option of transfering money from a source with no fees attached (bank account) or a source with fees (credit card). At that point, it is up to the buyer as to what option to choose. The only time I am aware of unavoidable fees is when it is an international payment, but even in that case a bank draft is significantly less costly than a credit card payment. The choice is now the buyer's and there are no longer any calculations necessary as everything is clearly spelled out by Paypal.

 

With paypal fee, I don't mind if a Go leader ask you to pay for it but I feel that it's kinda unfair when sellers as buyers to pay for it. It's like going to the super market to buy something and they ask you to pay the credit/debit card fee.

I've sold books on ebay, so I completely understand how annoying it can be. Ebay charge this much percent, paypal this much more, shipping material, and in end, I might as well just sold the books back to the bookstore.

But I still think seller shouldn't ask buyer to pay the paypal fee.

 

I've had to cover the Paypal fees and shipping with all transactions on DoA, and they've all been domestic sellers. I've never complained, and I will gladly pay the Paypal fees to protect myself if something happens to the doll rather than send a Personal Payment. I ask for the fees upfront because I've paid them myself. If a buyer would rather send payment as a gift, then there would be no fee.

 

Paypal fees are what Paypal charges you for the service of receiving money through Paypal. Asking the buyer to pay the fees is asking someone else to pay for your coffee. You get to enjoy it, they don't. What's next, adding fees for gas you need to make the trip to the post office?

Doll for sale for $350 + shipping* + Paypal fees + gas money + packing materials + snack, because it's a long trip to the post office + coffee, because I can't think clearly without my morning coffee. Sounds silly, right?
Just figure out how much you want for whatever you are selling and add the costs of selling to the asking price. Then nobody will complain about being surprised by additional fees and accuse you of being a "dirty" seller that should be avoided.

*Adding the cost of shipping later is acceptable, because the costs of shipping greatly depends on shipping method and destination. Something that depends on the buyer's wishes.