Paypal fees discussion

Reading this thread it looks like the most state that they "don't" charge paypal fees. I'm on DOA since 2008 I believe and I've done business with a lot of people from different countries and there was NO transaction where they didn't ask for paypal fees. So it really surprised me seing a lot of people writing here they don't charge them. I've never encountered one of them.

I myslef don't see the difference between adding the fees in the price or wiriting it separately. I mean finally isn't it the same thing as asking them? Besides a transaction needs transparency and the buyer needs to know what he's buying for the price asked. This is also why when I write "shipping included" I mostly include what kind of shipping and an estimate price of it.

I myslef see paypal fees more like any other VAT we have to pay on goods. Because it's the buyer that pays them, not the seller (at least in my country).

Just saying I don't charge PP fees but then set the price so to not to wanna loose that money anyway isn't better than charging them right? Or at least this is my point of view and of course it's a general discussion but I'm not saying that every one that stated "I don't charge PP fees" actually do. It's just that I've gone through a lot of selling threads and I've never, I say never, seen one saying "I don't charge PP fees"

 

Back a few years ago i always saw people asking for fees.

But not lately, (since if you use a personal payment, theres no fees.)
I see alot of people actually writing in their sales thread that we have that option aswell.

Which personally. I never charged pp fees.
And i will never buy from someone who does charge as its not necessary as there's no charge on a personal payment.

 

There's also no recourse on a personal payment.

 

sometimes I asked but most of the times I don't. When I first had paypal I had a basic account but because of the many transactions and ebay sales they upped me :s. I never thought twice about it since I never paid much attention >_<..I just assumed I was paying fees regardless. But pp is so convenient but I also hate them..and now I'm hating e'vil'bay.com too I sold my last item there..pp and ebay are conspiring I tell ye.

 

uchan, there is a difference between adding the cost to your selling price and then asking for buyers to pay the fee.

For starters, it's ethically wrong. Asking for buyers to pay your paypal fee is blatantly saying "I'm breaking the rules I agreed to via Paypal, but I don't care. Money is more important."

It's also rather rude and inconvenient. Many sellers who charge paypal fees simply say "Add the paypal fees to the price" leaving it to the buyer to calculate these fees. At least for those that up their sales price in their thread have a set-price that makes the purchase easy for buyers, without having to determine any separate fees. Plus, it's more direct that way, and buyers can determine themselves if the added cost is worth it or not.

As I said a few pages back, I do not nor have I ever asked for buyers to pay for my fees. I also absolutely do not buy from people who charge them. I'm sure many people here have missed out on sales because of this. I like buying on the marketplace, but the second I see someone say that they charge paypal fees, I hit Back, unless they have a ton of good feedback and accept personal payments (but I still don't like doing this).

It's also humorous to me to see that so many people that charge paypal fees in their sales threads also will not buy from others that charge them. It's a double-standard. I'd really love it if the DoA mods just set the standard to follow Paypal's policies and not allow sellers to charge them.

 

When I'm looking through the marketplace and come across an item I like and they charge paypal fees I close the thread. If it's something I really want and can't find it anywhere else then I will pay the fee.

I would never ask the buyer to cover my fees, after all the fees are for the seller not the buyer. If you must get an exact amount for your item then add the fees into it so the buyer doesn't have to try and figure out what they are.

Just my opinion but I actually thought it was kind of rude for the seller to ask the buyer to cover their fees. So far DoA is the only place I have come across this practice.

 

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I find it completely ridiculous (and more than a bit amusing) when people mention they'll omgnever buy from someone who charges paypal fees BUT I'M TOTES OK IF THEY'RE ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE PRICE!

Just. What.

I always charge fees, and I always mention up front that I'm charging the fees rather than trying to slip them into the price unnoticed. To me, that's far more underhanded. I'm not a business, and paypal fees eat up money unbelievably fast. It is not illegal for regular sellers to charge paypal fees.

Likewise I always pay paypal fees myself when buying off of the marketplace. I originally started out doing/buying art commissions where it is considered terribly rude to not pay the fees yourself and I keep the view when buying off the MP.

 

Alot of times the price may be increased by the doll's "value", demand, or other reasons other than simply adding paypal fees. Otherwise for the most part a seller can sell at the price they want without having to explain in so many detail as to why they are doing so. It's no more underhanded to not mention that the fees were considered in the asking price than it is to raise the price on a limited edition from the original cost or not mentioning that you'd really need the extra money for financial reasons.
As in my previous post from a looong while back, I personally don't charge paypal fees or at least don't use that as part of cost consideration even if I'm charging for more than what I paid for. If I'm charging extra it's simply because it's seems to be the going rate at the time, but most of the time I'd resell at about the price I paid for, if not for less than that. Even if a seller isn't in or owns a business, as a seller of something or anything you are still conducting a "business" transaction of some kind, so it is subjected to alot of rules and standards as any businesses on some level. Now I'm with the majority about leaving a page once I see a note on the sales thread asking me to calculate paypal fees simply because I find it annoying to have to work out the cost. If a seller is going to put the effort to post a sale and a figured "base" cost, they may as well add the calculations themselves so they'd be sure they're getting what they wanted/asked for. If I see that it was noted that fees were included, it won't matter as much to me because as a buyer I'd simply compare total cost against others selling the same thing and go with the best deal which is either the cheapest and/or the one in best condition. When one has any understanding or experience in sales and marketing, it all boils down to the same thing. In all honesty, also as a buyer and i find with most buyers, the reason for the cost doesn't matter as much as the want/need and the ability to afford it or willingness to pay, since when all is said and done that's what it comes down to. So there is hardly any point in having to explain to a buyer upfront why it's priced that way unless they inquire about it or you're making a sale's pitch. Of course the buyer has the right to know if they really want to, so sellers should be willing to provide an honest response. Most of the time the total cost, ease, and security of transaction is what they are looking at and are more concerned with, anyways.

 

Oh this subject is a pet hate of mine because so many people still do this even though it is illegal. They are also making it illegal in my country to add additional fee's to things because a lot of companies go to far with the hidden fee's. I actually don't care if the buyer has thought about how much they want for the item and have taken into account that there will be paypal fee's so add this to the total cost you see. None of this it cost x money plus 4% paypal fee's.

Also in marking it as a gift there is no protection if something goes wrong! And i have been conned before on here, so i would like to be very careful because of it. The most annoying case is i was going to buy something fairly expensive of a seller, and i asked how much is everything. And just before it went through she was like, oh don't forget to mark as a gift so you pay the paypal fee's. I out right said no and explained it was illegal, so offered to "pay them for me if i gave her extra money" which worked out more then the fee's would have been.

Then there was someone who threatened me over a PM afterwards because i didn't mark it as a gift and she went into a rant about it. That was "pleasant" i must say. I thought she was going to con me as well with how late everything got sorted. But she didn't in the end. But i don't think i would buy from her again because of the threats about the paypal fee's.

 

I don't buy from people who want the fees paying because (a) it's against Paypal's rules of use and (b) also a pretty greedy thing to ask for when you are using a FREE marketplace to sell your stuff in the first place. I kind of agree with Uchan that sneaking extra into your asking price just to cover the fees is also a bit sneaky, but at least less blatant.

You want to feel some fees that really sting? Go over to Ebay or any other online marketplace that charges and try to sell your doll. To me, asking for fees is similar to scalping, not a nice thing to do on a friendly forum like this. Also, if something goes wrong with your transaction and you have told the buyer to send you a personal payment... don't expect Paypal to be helpful - you have no protection because it shouldn't have been a personal transaction in the first place. It's like saying you want an item marked down for Customs, or having an expensive item shipped uninsured, you are taking a big risk if things go wrong.

If you want to sell a second hand item you have to be prepared for it to depreciate, even if you have only had it a few weeks. For me that means swallowing up some of the shipping fee (from the manufacturer overseas to me) and the Customs Tax, being stiffed by Paypal on the currency conversion rates and the Paypal charges. After taking all that into account you still get a better deal on the DOA MP than on Ebay or elsewhere, so why the moaning?

I took the risk buying an expensive item that it turns out I didn't like that much when it finally got here, I would have to live in cloud cuckoo land to think I should get back every penny I shelled out on said item. Yes, I know it used to happen in the Halcyon days of yore when BJDs were really hard to get hold of in the West, but it isn't like that now and the economy is bad. If you want to sell you need to be realistic.

Wow, I'm grouchy today!

 

This irritates me. It is illegal to do this in the UK. It's not just that it's illegal that irritates me it is that in places where this may not be illegal, some people don't respect that, some people refuse to deal with you if you don't cover the payments.

 

I think you raise some very valid points actually and worded it much better then i could have done.

I find that annoying too. Especially i have had transactions fall though because of it in the past. Or as i said later got threats because i didn't mark it as a gift.

 

If the item what I want is in the neighborhood of what I'm willing to pay after price, shipping and Paypal fees, I'll eat it and purchase.

However, I can't believe some sellers have the audacity to state my options are personal payment or calculate my own Paypal fees. People who only accept personal payment may as well only be accepting concealed money in an envelope under their door mat in my opinion. And as far as making me take my time to go and figure out how I need to pay a seller for fees that are their responsibility, it's just ridiculous. I feel there is a lack of responsibility in those cases and would rather take my business elsewhere personally.

Why is it so hard to understand, if you want the convenience of getting your money directly through Paypal, as a seller, you need to pay for that convenience? I should not have to pay extra to make a seller's life easier, I'm already helping them out by buying the item they don't want!

 

I'm not making a -PORFIT- when i sell my 2nd hand things, often i'm losing money and normally I Change less for shipping then it costs me to ship.

For me you want to do Personal payment, It's all good and if i'm buying from someone whom has good feedback then i'll do a personal payment.

If not then I asked for the buyer to pay the PP fee, it hardly any money and if for example it' the shipping from me to them, WHICH i already am lossing money on, it's more then fair.

Also if you look at PP you can if the buyer-CHOOSE- to pay the fees....so what is the issue?

 

Some countries it is actually illegal for us to actually go about that method. They are making it UK law this year that things we buy have to have the full cost up front. Because of some companies adding really silly hidden fees. Plus it is against you paypal contact. So for some people it is actually very much a legal issue.

But if you added it to the cost of what you were selling and the buyer just saw that right item X cost this much, plus Y shipping. Then people would not care, they would look at it and go, well am i willing to pay that yes or no. Adding paypal fees is not just adding extra money to that cost to cause confusion. But for some people it is a legal issue that in theory we could get into a lot of trouble for.

 

You are making a profit when you're selling something. =/ It isn't the buyers responsibility to make sure that you get back what you paid for it or more, however. That's totally different.

The issue is, once again, that it's against PP's Terms of Use to make buyers pay the fee. If the buyers want to pay the fee themselves *WITHOUT* you asking, again, that's totally different.

It's all about ethics people.

 

Technically, losing profit on shipping is your fault, so why should the buyer have to make up for the fact that you don't have accurate shipping costs? You wouldn't be in that situation if you just charged more for shipping and refunded the excess after postage, or got a proper quote ahead of time.

I fail to see how seller incompetence in that case makes it a requirement for the buyer to cover your mistakes. Also, if it's "hardly any money" why not cover the fees yourself since you're already mourning that you're losing out? Just my two cents on that specific part of your argument.

I'm mixed feelings personally on the fees debate because for me its situational, but that logic just seems backwards to me.

 

I don't even understand why the seller covering the fees is even up for debate.

When I click send money for purchase this is what pops up:




Pretty cut and dry wouldn't you say? It literally says the fees are the seller's responsibility!

Also sending money to strangers on the Internet Personal payment is a really dumb move on the buyers part. Just because someone has good feed back at that moment doesn't mean there is no chance of them disappearing with your money, it just means there is less of a chance.

 

Fees, like packing materials and gas money, are part of the cost of doing business. However, I don't expect the seller to take a loss on their overhead. As a buyer, I prefer that the seller charge me a flat price that includes their overhead, including fees. I only get annoyed when the seller springs it on me later, as a surprise extra fee.

Shipping, as others here have pointed out, is a different issue since the price will vary according to the method and destination.

I will never ask for a Paypal personal payment, nor will I do business with someone who demands it. Not only will you get in trouble with Paypal if they find out you're misusing it, but if something goes wrong you are screwed. The Problem Transaction forum is full of people who used personal payment and now they can't get their money back.

 

I agree - if you're the one who decided to make a loss (or did so by accident), don't blame your buyer for your mistakes. I remember a problem transaction where the seller paid for more than half of the shipping, and then blamed her buyer for such a generous act!

arlais; if you're so angry that you're losing so much money on shipping, asking for ppfees isn't going to get it back, asking for full shipping payment is going to get it back