Paypal fees discussion

This is the only situation in which I would even consider asking people outright to pay the fees.

I made the mistake of NOT asking for the fees on a VolksUSA group order and instead of saving $15 on shipping, I PAID $40 in PayPal fees. My part of the order cost me almost double the pre-group-order cost and I still had to pay for gas and packing materials to send things out again.

For regular sales, I'll add 1$-5$ to the sale price to cover the fees but that's about it.

 

I think folks routinely forget that any business account you open with your bank to accept credit cards would charge you a fee for each credit card transaction, as well as for checks (payments) written on the business account. I look at my paypal account fees as part of the transaction, or as part of the cost of doing business. There were going to be more fees involved with a standard business account from my local bank than there are involved with the paypal account, and I also get the convenience of having my money easily available. After checking, Paypal was actually the most inexpensive method to accept payment, plus it's a bit hard to fake.

 

Having just made a purchase from you I felt like I had to comment on what you said. And you DO state what you say you do. I know I opted for paypal and offered and paid the fees on the transaction we had (it was my choice and my offer). To some people $20-30 is partial convenience/impatience. It is convenient to not have to get out of the house (especially if you live in a larger city with high gas prices like me), and also usually when you pay by paypal it gives the seller option to send it faster. Where as if I were to go purchase a money order it would still take 3-5 days after mailing it for it to arrive to the seller, where as seller gets payment via paypal they can usually actually put it in the mail faster. I'm not generally an impatient person, but to be able to not get out in 100+degree weather, use my gas, and possibly get my stuff faster it really is a convenience to pay that fee, and I personally think being a seller myself especially on larger transactions it's a courtesy unless you can tell the person is making some kind of mass profit from it.

Also I know that NOW it says you're not supposed to ask for fees and stuff, but I remember when I sigend up I think 6 years ago, that clause was not applicable. And sure they send you their updated terms of service and everything, but their updates are not what I agreed to when I signed up, and that is the #1 thing that annoys me about paypal in general.

 

I sell quite a bit and do not ask for fees unless it is a group order. (And with Group Orders I only charge fees to people paying with credit/debit where I am charged fees, as I have balance payments sent to my husband's non-premier account.) Though of course if someone wants to pay my fees I'm not going to say no, but requiring it is something else. I think it's particularly annoying to have to pay additional fees on items that the seller is rather obviously making a large profit on.

I guess I remember trying to sell on-line back before PayPal was quite so popular and trying to get payments (or make payments) to people in Europe use to be horrible. Japan and Canada accept International Postal Money Orders, but Europe does not and the only method available involved waiting 7+ weeks and paying $20+ in fees or sending cash which was always a risk or doing a bank transfer which also had relatively large fees. While I don't enjoy losing money to fees, the convenience as a seller and the expansion to more markets I think more than makes up for it.

 

I agree with rkold and LauraJ. I sell on eBay, but it is not a "business". I only sell items to reduce my existing fashion doll collection and fund my BJD hobby. I would not be able to accept credit cards at ALL if it weren't for Paypal. So I have the same advantages as a legitimate for-profit business, because I can accept credit card payments easily and conveniently. I've expanded my market -- anyone can buy from me. There is no way I could have done that on my own.

Paypal is a business. I use their services. So I never ask for Paypal fees. And I won't pay them, unless I absolutely cannot get the item any other way. (Which hasn't happened yet.) As several people mentioned, group orders would be an exception, and that is out of consideration for the person pushing the "send payment" button on everyone else's behalf.

Linda S.
galatia9

 

It is a loaded word, I know.

But I do think it's important for people to be educated that contract law is just as much law as criminal law or property law.

I'm guilty not only of having gone to law school for a year (ick. not my cup of tea at all ) but of being a former English teacher (even worse!). I'm going by the plain English language meaning of "illegal" - against the law. Which it is.

And... having said that, I still am happy to cough up a little extra under some circumstances because I dislike PayPal's "it's all for us" policies

 

what seems like a crock to me, is that the person ACCEPTING paypal must incur fees at all. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous that ANYONE must incur these outrageously priced fees just for accepting payment. I'd rather see paypal charge a SET fee or a membership fee even. I can't stand having to lose 45 some odd dollars for the sale of a dang doll.

and if you are on ebay, it's even worse, becuase of the outlandish charges that Ebay gives you when your item is sold! After Ebay, and then paypal, it really hacks into your money

 

That's what the marketplace is for.

 

If I'm selling, I never ask for PP fees to be covered; it's simply the cost of doing buisness online.
I honestly don't mind giving Paypal a dollar here and there to keep them functioning; it's a valuable, secure service and I don't want to loose it.

However, if I'm getting reimbursed for, like, a group order or something, I will ask for fees, because otherwise I really WILL be out the money, and I'm not too keen on paying out of my pocket for other people's stuff. :/

Bottom line (for me): If you're selling something and you want the PP fees covered, just include it in the selling price and no one will get their panties in a knot.

 

Yes, but even on the marketplace, you still have to eat those fees for accepting someone's payment. It's stupid if u ask me. When you go to a shop and get a money order, you pay for that money order. I don't have to pay to cash it. (if going to a my bank or the post office if issued there) I don't get why the seller should have to eat the fees, so that someone ELSE can use their paypal account to pay you.

 

Buyers are not the only people who benefit from Paypal. It's fast, efficient and leaves an accurate transaction record. I'd rather take a Paypal payment than a money order any day, as I don't have to go to the bank or wait for the mail, argue with anyone over whether they sent payment, or keep paper records.
The promise of instant purchase and buyer protection also opens up a seller's buyer base immensely (same as with ebay, though ebay has the added exposure potential). If anything, sellers benefit way more than buyers do, on top of the fact that they're the ones profiting. And paypal/ebay are not here providing the service for their health, y'know?

 

I see where you are coming from, however, i can't agree. The buyer gets way more benefit than the seller does. The buyer gets their protection, as well as their own records. Not to mention, they have no fees to pay for paying with paypal, and every other form but cash, you have to pay for something to use it. Checks, you pay for your checks. Money orders, you pay for the money order itself. Why should paypal be any different? I think they should charge Everyone (buyers and sellers) a fee flat out for being a member, yearly, and call it a day. No, they aren't here providing for their health, but there is such a thing as ripping people off. Paypal has fallen through for me on a couple of occasions when i needed them, so i don't have alot good to say about them.

I actually find alot more buyers are willing to split the fees, 50/50. I eat half of the 4%, and they eat half of the 4%. To me, that is perfectly fair, and i have no problem asking for that. If someone does have a problem with it, then they can choose not to use my services. with my face-ups, and commissions, i generally do not worry about it. However, when it comes to doll sales, i do expect buyers to be giving on that issue.

generally, i agree with the consensus that it just gets added into the overall charge of the item. I don't take any other forms of payment, as paypal is the most convenient. I give them that. I just wish they'd be a tad more realistic with the charges. 40 -60 dollars fee is not realistic in the sale of a doll. it's ridiculous. I could understand saying "Hey, there's a 5.00 fee for the amount of money you took." That's a little more reasonable. LOL But i guess the world IS about money, so fees for "convenience" are just getting more astronomical.

 

It seems to me that for every person who is saying, "I will never buy from anyone who charges for fees" there are three or four people on the marketplace not only charging, but selling quite consistently and successfully.

Obviously there's a discrepancy in the popular opinion. Do I find this a problem? No. If people charge fees, it isn't my issue. I've only sold one doll and at the time I had to charge fees. Would I do it again? Probably not. I realized, too late, that I undersold my doll for what it was worth, but I don't regret it; I do regret, however, not telling the buyer about the fact that I had to charge fees until very late in the game.

What does it mean for DoA? It means that someday, someone might have a problem with fees, and might report another person on DoA. Then the mods would have to get involved, and establish an anti-fee rule, which will push a lot of popular marketplace buyers onto other forums. It's just not feasible that this is not an issue. We all have to be aware of it because it impacts everyone who buys and sells on the marketplace. Because we are dealing with large amounts of money (any guessers on how much money is exchanged on DoA daily?) we all have to be alert to this kind of thing.

We may not agree if it's fair that paypal charges fees, but they do; so we deal. The seller should have to deal too; or we should find a middle ground, like Comicbookartistboi suggests.

 

And it was so kind of you to offer like you did on such a large transaction!

I can understand how to some buyers, the fees are worth it for the convenience. The problem is, the way PayPal is set up, it's not the buyers who have to pay for it -- it's the sellers. For me, it is certainly not worth the fee amount in convenience, as I live in a small town with no traffic and pass both bank and post office on the way to work each day. I don't require immediate payment to make ends meet, either. If I buyer feels it is worth it, though, then that's great that they have a way to make their life easier. When I've been in a rush I've certainly been known to pay by PayPal, too (and I always include fees for the seller, whether they request it or not -- that's what's right, I feel).

I do believe that PayPal is performing a service and needs to be paid for that service. What baffles me is 1) the high rate they are charging, even when credit cards are not being used, and 2) the fact that the sellers are paying for it, when every other form of payment known to man is paid for by the buyer (checks, money orders, wire transfers, and so on).

For the record, it doesn't make sense to me that large companies and department stores have to swallow credit card costs. So that real-world example of finance payments isn't much of an explanation, to me.

As I've said before, as long as PP terms are that we don't charge fees to buyers, I won't do it, and I won't "pass on" the fees by building it into my prices, either. (I feel that's deceptive and unfair to those who don't even use PP.) But I will continue making it clear that I prefer other methods to be used to pay me. That way, it's in the buyer's hands, and it's the buyer's choice.

And if sometimes the buyer chooses PP and doesn't offer the fees even though I've made my preferences clear? Well, that's their right, too. I don't blame them for trying to save every buck they can, because if I was in their shoes, I'd be tempted to say "screw your preferences," too.

 

I do feel that the sellers should have to pay something in turn for using the service, but personally that whole 4% fee should be split in half or something and half covered by buyer, half by seller or something to that extent.
But it's not even JUST that 4% it's a percentage +.30. Frankly I thought the days of using paypal and having to pay and extra .50 per transaction if someone wanted to use a credit card was a-okay with me, but then they started adding in all the percentages, and then pinging you for everything with a permiere account. It's just kind of sad that such a good thing has turned out ugly.

What I did just discover the other day was that using the virtual debit card you get pinged for a 1% fee as the buyer. I was doing a luts group order for nearly $900 and got pinged for an extra $9 fee. So now instead of saving about 13 on my shipping i've saved less than 5. I really hope that luts starts accepting paypal again soon cause I hate to have to charge people EVEN MORE money just becuase of having to hassle with a different form of paypal tender. But then again I guess it's a pain that some people will probably still pay becuase they are unable or do not want to give their card info to luts or pay the $22 base fee for just 1-2 things.

 

that's strange...i have used the paypal virtual debit card, ordered from luts and from Volks, and not had a fee of any kind. Are you referring to the virtual card as in the number that is generated ONLY for that transaction??
however, 9.00 on a 900 dollar order isn't that bad. That would make me happy, if that was all that was charged LOL

but 40 dollars on a 600 dollar doll sale is INSANE

 

An easy way to just deal with this is to list items with the fee included, regardlessly. I often had done this practice with Paypal fees and now shipping fees. It's one less thing for you and the buyer to get over and less stressful too.

 

I believe that is highly unfair to the buyers who don't use PP. Why should they pay extra because the PP fees have been built in, when they don't even use the service?

I can't imagine how that would work for shipping, either, considering the difference between shipping costs to different locations. I guess it would work if you only shipped US domestic Priority Mail or something like that?

 

It's the way of business, though. Businesses pay fees to be able to accept Debit and Credit cards as payment. When you buy a top in a clothing store, you can bet that the store has added to the price to cover all their business expenses, included that of accepting card fees. Even if you choose to pay with cash, you are still covering that expense for them.

If I, as a business owner, decides to accept Paypal as a payment option, do I need to just eat the cost of it in my bottom line? I pay my bills with my sales, I have to take into account all the factors that are going to affect my profits. Paypal, like CC companies, specifically says that you cannot charge any kind of extra fee for using their service. So what can you do, then, if you need to protect your profits?

 

This is very true. And it's probably why I don't have a talent for business!