Paypal fees discussion

The buyers think the sellers should eat the paypal fee because the seller is getting the convience of getting their money quickly.

The seller thinks the buyer should pay for the paypal fee because they are offering the convience of accepting paypal payments.

Paypal says the seller can't charge for the 'paypal fee'.
So sellers try to 'hide' the fee into the cost of the item.

A 'hidden' fee for paypal is unfair to those who don't use paypal to pay for the item.
Soooo that is why some sellers list the 'paypal fee' in their listings.

Which just gets paypal users upset again because they want the convience, but they don't want to pay for it, and use paypal's terms of service as justification for complaining.

Frankly as a buyer I'm okay with paying paypal fees, if it means I don't have to go to the post office and get a money order, or wait for a check to be sent out and cleared before I get my items.

As a Seller, I am limiting my sales SIGNIFICANTLY if I don't offer paypal. As there are people who won't buy unless they can use paypal. Just as there are those who won't buy if they can't pay with a check or money order (but with the modern age, the paypal payers are much higher in number then the non).

In the end, NO ONE tends to complain when a seller offers BOTH forms of payment methods. (Check/Money Order and Paypal).

People don't complain that a seller will wait/hold a check until it clears before sending an item. But they complain if they are charged the paypal fee regardless of if it's 'hidden' or not. (go and see my first statement).

It's a circular arguement.

-Anneke

 

It bothers me most of the time, esp if I feel the person is taking advantage of fact they have doll, and for me to buy it new would be cheaper, but the wait can be so long! I understand if I use a CC which is usually only way I can do it, but when you add fact I am paying shipping, and fees and only getting a naked doll with no eyes and wig even it can be a bit over done. I have decided to not buy any more from fee chargers unless they send at least eyes and a wig. Otherwise will buy new form company and get wig I want as well as eyes. MK

 

Agreed. When I've sold stuff, I always put in my ads that I only accept the type of pp that doesn't charge fees, but if someone wants to pay with a cc, then I will accept it.. and ask for approximately whatever pp takes.

I don't sell a lot, so in no way is it a way of supporting myself (merely my dolly habit), so I don't have a problem doing that. As a buyer, I also have no problem covering that fee if I want to use my cc through pp too. It comes down to whose nickels and dimes get janked by pp.. if I'm buying, I accept that it'll be mine, and if I'm selling, I hope it won't be.

Edit: also.. I don't pad the "shipping and handling" fee or the asking price because I absolutely hate it when that kind of thing happens.

 

I have a question about a different type of fee... please spank me if this is OT, but I read recently on a section of paypal, that there's a blanket 3.4% fee charged for every international payment received (which I assume to mean anyone who's not registered as living in the same country as you), whether it's using paypal balance or CC.

I'm a little confused about this though, because I've never had money taken out of my account that I know of, due to these 'fees'. Does this maybe just apply to people who send you money in a different currency that needs to be converted, or something?

Cos I've never seen people adding in these fees before, but a group order organiser said I had to pay extra since I wasn't from her country, and she gave me this reason (I was paying by balance in USD)... so I'm just wondering what's the deal on this. She actually ended up charging me something like 8% though, but pretty much told me 'no one else complained so why was I being difficult' and that she didn't want to lose money on placing the order (which I totally understand, but 8%? )

 

Would you be ok with this argument if the seller was Walmart?

 

What is your opinion then on when people only give the option of using paypal to send funds and no other non fee incurring options are there to choose from because there are a lot of sellers on DoA who don't offer other options and certainly for those of us buying items overseas there isn't a lot to choose from that offers the same amount of security and speed of transaction.

In that case I believe that the seller should cop the fee themselves if they're unable to provide an alternative.

 

I own a business... and just FYI there are some rules imposed by Visa/MC/AMEX/etc.

Firstly (and most importantly) retailers are NEVER allowed to charge more for a customer paying by CC/Debit. However, retailers are allowed to "discount" cash prices. In other words, if I am selling something for $100, I am not allowed to charge more if someone is paying by CC/Debit... HOWEVER, I am allowed to charge $110 for the item, and give a $10 discount if paid by Cash/Check/MO/etc.

Secondly, Whenever I do a "Credit Card transaction I am charged a flat fee (usually something small like $1.00) PLUS a percentage of the sale. This percentage varies by company (amex is different than visa which is different than mc), but is usually anywhere from 6-8%. Now that's a CC charge only. For a Debit charge, it's just a flat fee no matter how much the person pays me, usually around $5.00.

For this reason, we always prefer people pay with debit cards (if it's a dual card), but do take credit cards as well... plus we give a 5% discount to people paying in cash/check.

If the merchant processor or Visa/MC/Amex *ever* found anyone charging more money for paying via Debit/Credit they would *immediately* suspend that seller and probably drop them completely. It's like their highest rule... and I understand why they do it... they don't want merchants to discourage people from using their cards to pay (you've seen those xmas commercials where people hold up the line when paying by check... same propaganda).

Anyway... just thought i'd share my experience as a business woman with you all... and just FYI, I personally completely avoid sellers who say in their posts that they will charge an extra __% for paypal (or CC).

Edit: Also, paypal's "Terms of Service" clearly states that "The seller can not charge for the 'paypal fee'." (Same as CC companies.)

 

If the person -chooses- to use premium accounts for personal use, it should be their way of paying for it, as it gives them a hell lot of privileges. otherwise, it'd be like asking others to pay for their rent, which is an arguement i believe i've used before.

otherwise... i think when paypal incurs these fees they probably had "profit making sales" in mind. We doll owners tend to sell used things where we're already eating some of the price, or we just want to get back what we paid for. So we feel that the fees are unfair.

but again. if you're using a basic and you're being charged with accepting an echeque, you can't help but to ask for a little favour in covering the fees.

As for the premium owners who uses it for personal deals, again, it's like asking people to pay for your rent.

Of course you pay your rent with your sales, but you add it into your sale price. You don't stop people at the counter and say "hey, remember to add in 5 bucks cos i have to pay rental of this shop too"


that's just stupid.

 

I think even in this case, the buyer still has the option to go to another buyer. Personally as a seller, I have two accounts that accept Paypal. I have one that accepts credit card payments and one that doesn't. The one that doesn't is perfect for anyone who wants to pay with a paypal balance or echeck from their bank. The credit card account is for those who can ONLY pay with credit card, and thus it's only to people paying to that account that I charge fees. Even then I use a PayPal calculator to make sure I'm not charging a cent over what I need to cover the fee. I do think the seller should be more flexible and offer more options, especially if they want to get more business. But they're certainly not obligated to. And I think they have a right to be compensated for fees they are charged regardless, just as the buyer compensates the seller for shipping.

And yes, I would be fine if Walmart charged a fee for working with Paypal. It's certainly their right to. But then, I refuse to shop at Walmart. That's a choice I make, just as any buyer has the right to choose who they shop with.

I think the best option would be to have a service that isn't Paypal that was as easy to use/widely used. I personally HATE using Paypal, especially given how prone they are to dicking both buyers and sellers around. But until Google comes out with their version, I'm afraid for now we don't have many choices.

 

I don't buy from people who charge the paypal fee, even if it's something I really really want, I think it's lousy to be charged this extra fee on top of the money you'd already be paying them. I've sold BJDs/clothes/etc as well as bought, never charged anyone buying from me the fees. Yeah, it sucks losing money on something, but you have to spend money to earn money as they say and you're charged the fees for using a service as a seller, so why should the buyer pay for your fees of using this particular service? I think that the seller should just include the fee in the initial price (because ignorance is bliss, right? ^^; ) or offer other types of payment methods if they insist on charging the fee. I think that makes me mad the most where people say "I accept payment by paypal only! Don't forget to pay the 4% fee!". I dunno, I saw this debate thread and had to post in it, having been shopping around a lot lately ._. I just keep thinking of how things work at the retail store I work at. But then again, if you don't like it, don't buy it! That's the best thing you can say I guess ^^;

 

This is one topic I've brought up time and again and every time I'm charged those fees it pisses me off.
I've had to pay them several times on dolls I've really wanted. Rather expensive dolls to begin with... and it really just is painful to be told you're covering paypal fees... especially for me, who, as a seller with a premium account, NEVER charges them.

It's really, really, really damned simple. ADD THEM into your overall cost and don't TELL people that you're going to screw them over.
If you're worried about being fair to people who pay by means that aren't charged that fee... then say you'll give a discount for certain payment methods.

I've had this happen with a doll I purchased recently, the seller gave me an option of paying with a money order at a discounted price... and *I* chose to still use paypal to pay faster... so I didn't feel like I was being screwed over, I felt I was paying for the convenience of speeding things up, and that, I was perfectly ok with.

 

Hahahaha. What? Man, I see a lot of places these days who will add a surcharge on certain credit card transactions, especially Amex. As I understand it, this is because the fees for merchants are notably higher for those cards compared to others. At work, I use to get people asking me if we accepted Amex because business that aren't big enough to swallow the merchant fees either have a surcharge or don't take the card at all.

Back on topic, I don't really factor in Paypal to my items for sale (probably because they sell for low enough for me not to care). But this argument as a whole tends to go around in circles, especially given the generally low margins, second-hand reselling or high overall cost of many items. As buyers and sellers, we all want to try and offset those annoying extra costs if we can.

 

If you need to accept more than $500 from paypal you need to upgrade. Last I looked you could only get $500 from a personal account so I think that pretty much removes alot of doll transactions here that are fee-less if you must pay with paypal. $501 and you have to upgrade to premier which has fees attached to it from any service, (cc's, bank transfer, cash transfer from another paypal account). You dont really get a choice. And you do get charged for your retail purchases if you pay by cc. Those fees do get passed on, in the form of the retail price you pay. The dollar store by me used to only accept cash form payments, and everything was a dollar. Now everything is $1.50 and now they accept discover card. I preferred it all cash and it was cheaper but of course we're talking a few bucks here.

For a doll I'd pay by cc esp if this is online. If that means cc thru paypal then that's what it means and really the paypal protection is on the buyer's side, not the seller's side - as a seller of everything she's hoarded in the past I will tell you that frankly it suits the buyer more than it suits me - becuase if it suited me I'd prefer everyone pay by USPS money order but they the buyer do not want to. THEY choose paypal. The coverage business means squat - it only means the buyer needs to pay by a confirmed address and many many do not for small amounts

Now If a doll is going over retail on a cash basis, is it the seller's responsibility to cover the paypal fees if the buyer wants to or can only pay by paypal ? So that means the seller should be selling the same doll (that's currently selling over retail on a cash basis) at a cheaper price to cover the paypal fees ? I dont see how that's really fair to the seller and as a buyer I dont think I'd feel good about it.

 

It's been a long time since I used my personal account and here info that's new to me. Before if you used a personal account you could still sell, now you no longer can. If you get a cc payment you have to upgrade to a premier. And the personal is only free if you are paid with paypal balance transfer/cash

You can no longer explicitly accept paypal bank transfers/cash in your listings if you accept paypal at all. Also, to prove apoint paypal charges more on personal accounts than verified accounts:

Personal accounts:
Receive payments funded by Credit Card, Debit Card or Buyer Credit 4.9% + $0.30 USD (limit of 5 transactions per 12 month period)** for domestic or U.S. transactions

2% + applicable Fees Fees for cross border payments

4.9% plus $0.30 USD for card payments received using PayPal on Skype


Receive payments funded by PayPal Balance, PayPal Instant Transfer or PayPal eCheck
Free with personal account but your limit is at $500
1.9% to 2.9% + $0.30 USD with premier


For same country buyers & sellers this is fine, you have options, like money orders, checks, etc. For cross country it gets really expensive for both ends.

Again, I have always preferred other forms than paypal, but it's technically the buyer who always ends up choosing paypal.

 

I use a psychological approach towards my pricing. I not only factor in the credit card fees into the price but, depending on the item, sometimes shipping and handling as well, so that I can market the items as free shipping. The overall cost of the item may be a little higher, but when the buyer sees "free shipping", the price seems completely worth it. If the buyer wants to comparison shop and break down the actual cost, more power to them. Chances are, though, they won't bother because the free shipping deal sounds better to them.

I will generally pay Paypal fees if someone asks for them, although I don't like it. Again, it depends on the item and its overall worth.

 

I personally don't add the Paypal fees. I see that as my choice to pay extra for the security and convenience of Paypal. I could accept money orders or checks without any extra fees, but they are more of a hassle and (in the case of personal or bank checks) are sometimes less secure/reliable.

 

Interesting debate topic, all the opinions are very interesting.

I think a lot of it has to do with who we think benefits most from having Paypal as the payment method, the buyer or the seller? This may differ from case to case.

I think it's also about supply and demand. If the item for sale is in high demand at its price then the seller would have many possible buyers for 1 item. In this case the seller could afford to pick and choose his/her terms of sale because the item would be sold no matter what they decided on the paypal fees.

If the item is not in high demand at its price then the seller may feel lucky to have just one buyer interested. Then the seller would need to consider whether charging the extra paypal fees is worth potentially losing this buyer. Because there is no competition for the item, the buyer is at an advantage if the terms of the sale (such as who pays paypal fees) need to be worked out.

I do think that sellers who charge an extra paypal fee are not professional (and that's perfectly fine since many sellers here aren't and are not trying to be). Of course, going by Paypal's rules the seller pays for the service, but as we all know, it's not always the case here in the real world.

 

On the rare occasion that I sell things I don't charge Paypal fees, and I actually typically avoid sellers who ask that I pay the Paypal fees. I have several times been about to PM someone about buying an item and then realized that the sales thread said to add 4% for paypal fees... and then changed my mind. *shrug* I don't imagine I'm the only one.

I once bought something and wasn't told that the person charged paypal fees until I had already committed to the purchase and she sent me my total, and I was extremely upset... unfortunately this seller was the only source of the item I wanted so I sucked it up and paid extra, but I haven't done business with them again.

 

I can't see the reason to why anyone would want to take out the fee in the prize. It is such a small amount of the prize that it's just silly. I know some people does this, but I have never bought from anyone doing it. I don't do it myself.