Paypal fees discussion

I never ever charge a customer fees for using Paypal. I am paying Paypal a fee for their service, because Paypal is easy, convenient, and commonly used and thus makes it easier to sell my stuff. I don't understand why people don't get that. I generally avoid purchasing anything from a seller who charges fees, unless it's actually an independant doll maker in a foreign country, because I usually think they should charge more for their art anyway.

 

I've sold a lot of stuff on ebay and never charged a fee. I didn't even know people charged paypal fees until I started checking out and buying from DoA. I don't know why but I starting thinking that it was normal to charge a paypal fee and did so on like 2-3 things I've sold on DoA but I was very upfront about it and the buyer agreed when I mentioned the paypal fee.

After the 3 times I've sold with fees, I've never added fees again but after reading this thread I feel ashamed that I did so...

However I do feel that charging fees for groups orders is a must... I did one a couple of years ago and literally paid like $100 out of pocket...

 

I don't charge fees for anything, (what I'm selling.) but I do ask for Shipping fees.

I don't like how -some- sellers in North Amarica ask you to pay the %4 fee, it's illeagal and I try to avoid buying from them when possable, Even if it's an item that I want.
Sometimes, I really want to report them to paypal, but what good would that do?

 

My husband has a business account on Pay Pal. It charges a fee, but for his e-bay items he always incorporates it into his starting bit or buy it now. that way the buyer doesn't have to worry about another fee besides shipping and the seller isn't out the fee from their own pocket.

HOWEVER!
For large purchase, like a doll, I would understand it because the fees can sometimes be killer. Same thing with receiving money for a group order.

I personally never order from anyone that charges it, expecially on small items.

 

IMO it should be against forum rules to charge the fee. Seeing as it's illegal in some countries and whatnot. If you are so intensely concerned with how much money you make off a sale, then please take a few moments before placing your sale and factor the 4% into your original sale price, advertising X price then "...with 4% paypal fee" is tedious to the buyer looking for the best bargain.

I think I would kind of liken it to hidden charges from cell phone companies and whatnot. Now since you put the 4% notice in the sale thread, it isn't hidden, but the first thing they see is your original price. It is just like will cell phones where in the advertisement all you see is a very low original price, then you get to the place to sign up, and they wheel and deal you for hundreds of $ of fees and contract agreements.

So I think it is wrong to ask for paypal fees. If I bought from the marketplace I probably wouldnt buy from someone charging fees unless I had to, since it's illegal I'd actually probably want to report it, though paypal doesn't do anything unless your dispute is on eBay most of the time. There are other payment managing programs to go through, with much lesser fees and easier operation. If you want to make the most money possible all the time, switch.

 

If it's an individual seller asking for the fees I think that it wrong and tacky. The seller should eat the fees. And I've seen people from all countries ask for the fee not just a particular one.

But I don't mind paying fees for a group order because you have to pay the company a certain amount. And if the members don't pay fee either the group organizer has to eat the fee or the company gets charged twice.

 

I usually incorporate my US shipping fee and Paypal fee into the price of the items I am selling. Sometimes I just eat the fees just because I want to get rid of the items I am selling. I usually make up the cost if I sell something on EBay for more than what I paid.

I understand about individual people charging the fees, though I think that they really should incorporate it into the cost of what they are selling, but I find it totally insulting when people calling themselves an actual business with an actual business name charging the fees. These so called companies should pay their own fees; it's called "operating costs"!

BTW, I think that the UK is the only country allowed to charge Paypal fees, since it's part of the law in their country, but they are not allowed to charge the fees to countries where it's illegal, such as the US and most other EU countries.

 

I had to completely rethink my planned hobby sales on Ebay. Ebay just raised their fees. I think the final value fee is based on the item alone, and not the shipping. So it will actually hurt you now to raise fees and offer free shipping because now they have a new structure where a bigger fee cut is in the final value fee, so if I sell something that' 50 plus free shipping. I am paying in fees more than someone who charged 40 plus 10 shipping. Free shipping isn't worth it on ebay anymore, and if you do buy something with free shipping it doesnt mean you're paying less. The seller might have included the shipping or extra into the price. It may be pscyhological to the buyer, but it's moreso buyer beware on what you bid on.

Now, It might actually be cheaper to bid on something with a higher shipping price than before. If the seller can save money, it's usually passed onto the auction winner at least that's been my experience. I just purchased 2 small items with a best offer price. The seller who offered higher shipping ended up being the cheapest when she combined my purchases. The ones who had higher prices but lower shipping would've cost more. Not that it mattered since she declined my best offers which was good. Her prices in total were higher. Not just shipping alone, not just price alone.

On small items, I really don't think it should be a matter of who's paying for paypal or not, as long as your total price is lower than the next place to buy. I personally always look at the total price and not worry about who's paying for what. 3.9% on $1,000 is alot ! If I expected the seller to pay that so I could purchase the item with my credit card thru paypal, I'm sure it would look more like 5% ontop of the original cost esp if they have to now pay higher on their ebay fees.

 

My, you made me blush ! Thank you for the compliment. And thank you for those numbers, I wasn't quite sure what they were. (I'm writing them down now)

Since we're still on paypal issue, I thought I would add that There are some very nice online sites that will take your overseas currencies and convert them at lower fees than your banks, plus their fee conversions are even lower than paypal. So much lower, when I compared paypal with the other sites, I was actually losing about .20 with paypal which comes out to 20%. That's big. For every $100 that's $20 ! I dont do alot overseas but golly that builds up !.

And they'd better not take my free account away ! Talk about greedy!
I only use it once in awhile and in very very small amounts !

Seriously, if you want to have something cheaper, contact the seller. I do and sometimes I can get a decent break and they do too. But in all honesty, I dont think paypal is for the seller, it's really for the buyer 's privacy and convenience. I know that's why I use it.

 

Not that I'm in any way eager to stand up for Paypal, but they don't have much of a choice on this issue. Their hands are tied by the credit card companies, who stipulate that the seller can not make the buyer pay the credit card charge. So Paypal's only choice is to pass the fee onto the seller. If Paypal ate the fees themselves, they'd go under in 20 minutes. They don't really care whether or not individual sellers charge the fee back, but they're required by the CC companies to put a clause against that in the contract. It's not fair (I think in a situation like Paypal, where it truly benefits both parties, the fees should be split), but that's the way it is.

 

It's very easy to simply argue that "Shipping & Handling" also covers any extra fees such as financial fees from Paypal. Some people state explicitly that they pass on the Paypal fees, some simply hide it in the S&H. Who's to say which is better? On one hand I prefer the honesty of someone stating exactly what I'm paying for, even though I don't like to be forced to pay the Paypal fees when I'm buying (I never pass on Paypal fees as a seller).

 

I'm so glad that there's already a thread on this, because it's been bothering me for some time! There have been so many dolls posted for sale that I will just not buy because the seller is asking for paypal fees (and a couple that I bought anyway because I REALLY wanted them). To me, the seller absorbing that fee is called the cost of doing business. Look, this hobby that we have should be fun, people shouldn't buy dolls for investment purposes. You win some, you lose some, and at the end of the day it probably all comes out even. I just think passing the fees off to the seller, while also (in many cases) charging full price and then some for the doll, AND shipping is a bit much.

There, I feel much better now.

 

As a bookkeeper/Accounting assistant, let me assure all of you that no real business absorbs those fees. They are factored into over all price. Now someone pages and pages back said something about being upset if the grocery store charged them extra to cover fees. Well...they do! But a chain like Kroger or whatever likely pays less than 2% fees for anything...but you do pay that price. They don't 'absorb' anything. We run a non-profit and just left Paypal because the fees are stuuuuupid high.

As for the morality of it...I don't really find it that big a deal, especially if someone doesn't charge over on the shipping. I think shipping should always be exactally what you pay. Bubble wrap costs next to nothing and boxes from USPS are free. Now for dolls, different story if you have to buy a new box but usually I've found people ship them in their original or close to original boxes. PayPal has become not so much a convienance for sellers but for buyers. Not only do they charge way too much for the fees but it saves you from having to go get a money order or waiting for a check to clear. In some cases they hold the money before you can transfer it out to your bank account, charge more fees to use the PayPay debit card and more. You are also getting protection as a buyer, being able to dispute a charge. So why should a hobbist eat fees that are only helping you out? On something like a $700 doll, they get nearly $30 eaten out on fees and say they paid $800 for it, well that only adds to the loss. $30 just so you don't have to go to the post office, so you can have protection, so it's easy on you, the buyer. Now businesses, people who sell to make profit, should just figure that into the price of the doll. Anyhow, if you're doing enough business to really be taking a huge hit on fees, then you should look into other merchant accounts anyhow. If you have a paypal merchant account you pay $30 a month no matter what and your fees are high. If you have something like QuickBooks Merchant services it's $15 and the percentage is lower, but in a business that's always factored in, not eaten.

Basically all this rambling says is you're a fool if you think the grocery store eats your fees, that it's a cost of doing business and shouldn't affect the price of goods or if you think a person trying to recoup some money on a doll they don't play with is a bad person.

My opinion on the matter? Why does anyone care if they charge fees or not. Just factor it in to the price of the doll. My beloved doll I always always wanted is $500, well shipping is going to be $50 and they want paypal fees of $15. So my awesome dream doll now costs $565. It would cost $600 from the company. You still save money, is it worth it? That's what I think when I see such things. If I want it for the total price, I want it. I'm not going to go on about immoral or illegal or whatever. It's either worth it or it's not.

 

I might to disagree with you on that point.

As an example, we sell dolls for a few companies as one of their agents. They set the retail price not us. If someone pays using Paypal we don't add the fees on top. They pay the retail and we absorb the fee and as a result it reduces our profit margin. There are other things we absorb as well which are not passed on the the buyer, they only factor in as to how much overall net profit we make on the sale.

However, on the things we make ourselves we do factor in fees and other sundries into our base price.

I do consider us a "real" business and should the absorption of fees etc get to a point where it is no longer profitable for us to make the sale then we would have to reconsider whether or not that line of products is worth continuing with.

As far as other sundries on shipping goes...... it depends on where you are. Another example.... bubble wrap next to nothing? I pay a couple of dollars per metre for it, and I use maybe 1.5 metres sometimes with a large doll.... cost - $3.00. UPS boxes might be free but I'm in Australia. If I use a box to ship a doll then I have to pay for it. Cost depending on the box size, $2 to $5. Wrapping paper, yep next to nothing but not nothing. Paypal charge a fee on the whole amount received so you have to figure in their taken percentage of the shipping too.

The one and only thing a real business is concerned about is the bottom line after everything is accounted for.

 

I have to agree with this. DoA should not allow that kind of activity to go on in the market place. Sellers can easily let their price on an item reflect the cost of doing business. When I first checked out the market here I was confused by these Paypal fees mentioned in posts.
Doing the right thing is easy for DoA in this matter.

 

People are making it seem worse than it is. You'll always find someone who makes a big deal out of something that is nothing. If you want to find someone who hates a doll brand you will, if you want to find someone who freaks out over things it's very easy. Just do what your gut tells you, check seller ratings and you'll be ok. I was terrifed to buy my doll because no one seemed to like them. OMG I love her! Just check seller ratings and your gut feelings.

I think this is a big deal out of nothing.

 

My own policy about fees is... I don't charge them for items I've owned or made and am selling. I've only ever asked for them when doing splits or group orders because it does get burdensome!

I recently did some FCS splits, and people kept wanting to add this and that and I haven't really looked, but I think I probably really racked in some serious fees there! Lesson learned.

I don't buy things from people who charge Paypal fees or tax (unless they're a licensed retailer and I'm in their state). The exception would be if I'm A) desperate to get something that is otherwise impossible to find, or B) getting the item at such a good price 5% more isn't a problem. But in general no, I just hit the back button and go to the next seller.

Raven