Portraying Dollie Drug Use?

considering this is a 14+ forum (atleast i think thats what one of the mods said??) i would hate to see something other than ciggarettes or wine here, if your dolls character or personality has something to do with an addiction to druges well...whatever floats your boat, but i dont think it should be spammed around


drug addictions tend to pull peoples strings like cancer or anything else that harms/weakens/kills people

i would feel so bad if i posted something about a doll dying from taking to much cocain or somehting and had someone who has or is watching a loved one suffer from it so to be on the safe side i wouldnt post anything like that around a happy place like doa =]


however if it was a made up drug and did resemble an existing drug i dont think it would matter as much? maybe, and i understand people watch people dye from ciggarets and waist away on alcohol too, but they are far more comment then cocain so i dont think that would be as much of a sensitive spot...

 

How would you feel if you saw a photo story of a doll who had some kind of drug addiction? Would you read it, or skip over it and move on, or even be offended?

I would probably read it, and it wouldn't bother me at all. I feel that dolls can be used as another medium for expression, they can be used to reflect real-world problems, just as a character in a fiction novel can. That said, there are appropriate and inappropriate places to post such a photostory, and seeing as there are underage users on DOA, I don't think it would be appropriate to post here.

Would it make a difference if the character in question was addicted to alcohol or if they were addicted to heroin? How about a made-up drug?

I personally think it would make a difference, as alcohol and heroin have different effects, and also one is legal where the other one isn't and so would be taken differently by different audiences. I myself would be fine with a doll addicted to illicit drugs, I'd probably be more drawn to the heroin-addicted doll. I don't think a made-up drug would make much difference, a drug is a drug, and if abused can lead to similar consequences in the long term, the only difference I think would be how the effects of it impact the character and whether it is a legal or an illegal drug. Either way they're addicted to something potentially harmful though.

Is drug use/addiction too "gritty" for the BJD world?

I don't believe so. There are no rules for the BJD world that everything has to be happy kittens and rainbows (at least not that I'm aware of). The owner can project whatever situation on the doll as they like, BJDs can be used to reflect human actions and consequences, and humans aren't all sunshine and lollipops. I think it's perfectly acceptable to portray drug use and addiction with BJDs - but on the proviso that if it is posted on the web/otherwise shared, it is done so in a responsible manner.

 

as long as there's a proper warning so people who are offened know and can skip it , then i don't have a problem. as for it being too 'gritty', well,it depends on the dolls character and if it adds to it and makes the character easier to connect to then i'm more for it. I have a problem with everything being picture perfect so I like dolls with a bit of grit. I just don't really like seeing drugs portrayed glamourously.

 

I think it's fine, as long as you know what you're doing.
Like with any character, if your doll used a drug that really exists, and doesn't get any of the bad side effects (effectively glorifying the drug in a way) you risk offending anyone who has/had or knows someone who has/had an addiction to that drug and suffered as a result.

 

How would you feel if you saw a photo story of a doll who had some kind of drug addiction? Would you read it, or skip over it and move on, or even be offended?

I would be very offended, and close it.

Would it make a difference if the character in question was addicted to alcohol or if they were addicted to heroin? How about a made-up drug?

Alcohol addiction is very sad and depressing. I would prefer to see none. Yes, there is a difference. Drugs are illegal and very serious. I don't think youngsters should see dollies taking drugs. Made up drugs are as bad as alcohol and drugs. The concept remains the same.

Is drug use/addiction too "gritty" for the BJD world?

Yes. I think of my niece and nephew, who are also members and would be offended and bothered.

 

I agree with Gus251.

 

And what if, for the sake of argument, the author has/had an addiction to that drug...? Should they really be forbidden from sharing that story, just because it might upset a stranger on the internet? And why should sharing such an experience be considered offensve, if it is the truth?

 

I think the point they were making is that the drugs should not be portrayed incorrectly (as opposed to not being portrayed at all as they do open saying that it's fine to portray it), for example drinking bottles and bottles of spirits without getting alcohol poisoning, or taking an upper without the coming down afterwards, or even taking huge amounts of the drug without ODing and possibly dying, not to mention the mental and social problems that may arise because of their drug addiction. Portraying drug addiction with no negative side effects would be glorification of drug addiction.

As for whether people can harbour drug addiction with no negative effects on their lives at all is another discussion.

 

No, I just meant if their portrayal is incorrect.
If your character uses a drug a lot, but just get the "good" effects of it, then not only may someone believe that is what really happens, but a person whose life was destroyed by drug use will get deeply offended.
Showing drug use is fine as long as you do research and show what really happens. If you don't want all of the effects of a drug, then you should invent a made-up drug for the story.

 

I appreciate it, but I don't think you understood my question-- I mean if the author HAS had experience with that drug, and IS showing what really happens. Why should their experience be any more offensive, or any less valid? There is no "correct" or "incorrect" way to show any experience. And I would think that a former drug-user would definitely qualify as "having done research"... so I am wondering why that person's story always must have a sad ending before people will read it.

Each person's experience with any substance will differ from another person's experience with that same substance. So, if Person A didn't have their life harmed by a drug, I am wondering why it's unacceptable to hear their story.... when their experience may have nothing to do with Person B whose life was harmed by the same drug. Why must one person's experience be made to apply to somebody else in the audience?

Mainly I'm trying to get people to examine the assumption that earthly pleasures (here, a drug) is always immoral, somehow, unless the person suffers for it later. Why are some experiences only palatable when treated as cautionary tales, and not as adventures/experiences for their own sake? Primal fear of experience? Centuries of Judaeo-Christian conditioning? Other?

[So many questions. ^^ But the Devil and his Advocates all wanna know.]

 

I see no issue in portraying drug abuse, as long as it is portrayed as it accurately as possible.

One of my dolls to be is going to be based on a character of mine, who is a heroin addict. So I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I found anything wrong with it.

My two cents~~

 

It was recently all over the papers that the actress Helen Mirren took cocaine in the Eighties;

And what stopped her was not descent into madness/chaos/poverty/disease, it was because a Nazi war criminal had been found to profit from the cocaine trade and Mirren couldn't stand the idea that her little lines here and there at a party were all supporting this monster.

Drug taking doesn't have to be ugly and the life of a drug taker doesn't have to become ugly through drugs...but therein lies the difference between the partaker and the addict.

The addict is moved towards the substance, they can't think of anything else, the drug is the most important thing and it doesn't matter if you step on your grandmother's back to reach it. The occasional partaker can take it or leave it, they can have it and enjoy it, but they don't spend their life chasing it.

It's not acceptable to only hear the 'good' part of drug taking, such as it is, because that can glorify the drug and the act of consuming it and the lifestyle surrounding it. But a story such as Helen Mirren's drug taking, with a definite beginning (a young actress in London for the first time) middle (enjoying parties with her peers) and end (social conscience winning out over hedonism) is instructive. Not only does it teach that drugs don't have to transform everyone into a glassy-eyed zombie, it reiterates that drugs can be bad in ways beyond the obvious physical consequences; The people who profit from drugs make their profit on the despair of others. The man at the top won't pay his coca growers a fair wage compared to the money he is making, they remain in cruel poverty, their children grow up to be his growers and drug runners too, and the people who take his "chalky charlie" repeatedly become ill and withdrawn until the next line. He sits at the top of the empire raking in money and souls, until someone like Helen Mirren, an occasional user of his drug, realises that their actions at a party in the bright lights and the smoke has consequences for the poorly-treated people half the world away.

I am rambling now. But I think that there is definitely scope for a photostory like that, it makes a difference compared to the hopeless, bleak addiction stories out there.

 

My guess is that stories which revolve around characters who do nothing but drugs are 1) hard to believe and 2) boring. Can you give an example of a drug "adventure" that had a happy ending as a direct result of the drugs?

 

Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas, just off the top of my head. Love or hate its gory excess, that story undeniably dissects the issue head-on, never flinches from the good or bad of it, is told directly 'from the trenches', and places the drug issue squarely in the context of its time & culture.

But now you mention it, that's another part of the question I'd like to ask-- setting F&L aside for a moment-- why would the story have to be all ABOUT the drug? That is: why the "direct result of the drugs" requirement? A believable drug-using person may not have those drugs as the center of his/her story.... drug-usage may just be 1 facet of that character. If drugs are not the character's whole raison d'etre, why is it necessary that the ending/climax/lesson have anything to do with drugs?

Sorry, but those are both just matters of opinion. I don't mean your subjective views. I meant people to really think about the underlying reasons for their reactions to such stories.

For a better example of what I'm driving at.... I'm thinking of Chuck Palahniuk's lurid yet powerfully thoughtful oeuvre. (Fight Club, Choke, Invisible Monsters, etc.) Many of his characters are popping a bazillion chemicals per minute, as but their substance abuse winds up being barely noticeable in the background of their other antics. In these stories, the antics & events are so wild, you would find the whole thing unbelievable if the characters weren't on drugs. Such authors use a person's drug-habits the way another author uses a person's shopping-habits-- a character quirk, not to be dwelled-upon.

That's an excellent example of another facet to consider-- people whose experiences led them to reject other repercussions of a substance-use, which may have nothing to do with personal destruction. Also an excellent example of the Road of Excess actually leading to Wisdom (i.e. learning), instead of destruction/addiction/misery/etc. Most partygoers in the 80s did cocaine (it was The Thing back then), and nobody yet talked about the politics or the warlords, so Helen Mirren's experience was also relevant to that time/culture.... She happened to drop out of it for political reasons before everyone else did. Whether it's a character learning to reject, or enjoy/accept, a substance, whenever they show awareness of what they're actually doing, I too think such a story would be interesting to read.

(Also, basically, Helen Mirren. Herself!)

 

A couple issues at play, I think. First is that the average Joe's knowledge of drugs comes from a combination of health class and the media... both of which normally focus on negative, quantitative scientific and sociological data against drug use. People expect a fictional character's drug experiences to follow what they feel is a proven scientific norm, and it feels "fake" when a drug portrayal has a happy ending. Part of it is suspension of disbelief.

A lot of times, stories revolve around the unusual and exceptional... and in that way, a drug-story with a happy ending isn't out of the question. But I think that it's hard for people to relate to because it tends to fall outside the realm of their experience. Sometimes it's unpalatable just because it feels poorly researched rather than edgy or exploratory. (Especially when the story is presented with poor dialogue and lackluster visuals.)

With regard to earthly pleasures, morality aside... there are few that do not contain some sort of "risk." Promiscuity comes with the risk of disease or unwanted pregnancy, gambling comes with the risk of debt, drug use comes with the risk of irreparable damage to your mind or body. Heck, eat too much chocolate and you'll be a fatty. Cautionary tales exist in all cultures, and aren't always advocating safety by pure absinence... often, there is a path of responsible behavior that involves moderation and weighing (and reducing) your risks against the consequences.

Is it good writing to present behaviors or personalities that are so far-fetched that the author needs to have drug use as an excuse? For pure entertainment, pulp pop, why not?

I suppose part of it falls into the question of why you are creating and what you are trying to say.... drug use, like many risky behaviors, can really be a powerful tool for commenting on society or developing a character.

Additionally, some ideas need to be pulled into the abstract to make their point clearly... And short of going sci-fi and dropping in an alien, drugs are one way to get someone who is thinking from somewhere outside of the normal social, moral, or even human viewpoint.

I don't hate drug use portrayals, but I prefer it to be a thought-out element rather than something tossed in for cheap laughs or shock value.

 

I think whether or not a person really can harbour drug addiction without any negative consequences at all is another debate :P
I mean sure, if that person really did have no negative consequences, no mental, physical or social problems as a result of their addiction, then I guess its ok to retell their story.
There is a big difference between using a drug a few times and not having any problems from it, and then full blown addiction, where everything in your day and what you do revolves around getting the next hit/line/whatever. People have obssessed over things that aren't potentially harmful drugs (eg WoW just off the top of my head) and as a result have withdrawn from society and have their lives and money and time devoted solely to support their obsession/addiction.
I guess in the end it's all relative though. I personally believe when a person withdraws from society it's a sign of a negative toll being taken on the person when they used to be more social (if they were a social person to begin with), whereas other people may not see it as the same, and more like time devoted to their new 'hobby'.
I think in the end it's the author's responsibility to portray things correctly. If you want to show a character who isn't affected by drugs as much as John Smith, it might be a good idea to mention it, rather than downplaying the drugs, or else the idea that such and such character isn't affected by the drugs will get lost and it will just seem like drugs will affect most people in the same way.

As for why earthly pleasures are seen as immoral, it's probably due to judeo-christian conditioning. Different cultures used different mind altering substances in their rituals for eons. Granted the potency of their substances were probably not as strong as the stuff on the street today, but that's besides the point.
I personally believe that all things should be taken in moderation. An illicit drug has negative consequences when abused, just like panadol, alcohol, overeating, and so on. As for drug addiction, it's an example of something taken way out of moderation, to the point where the person physically and mentally depends on it. Just because they aren't feeling any outward symptoms apart from the addiction, it doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't being effected by the use of the drug - it can literally change the way the brain is wired up and they way it behaves. Some would argue that this is ok if the person is still alive and 'well', but me being a biology student, I don't like the idea of permanently altering brain function, and in my opinion that would count as a negative point of drug addiction.
Ah. Rambling. Stop now. :P

 

They are really more of essays, but I highly recommend reading through The Doors of Perception and Heaven and Hell, both by Aldous Huxley. In fact, I recommend them to anyone in this thread with an "all drugs are bad" mentality.

 

I suppose I don't ever have to worry about this, as my only drug-using character, Taurus, will likely never be made into a doll. (I don't think his 'enabler', Leo, will be appearing either)

In my opinion, people need to stop reading into things, and take these portrayls at face value - a fantasy story involving dolls. It's no different than reading a book, watching a television show or anything else portraying these vices.

I don't think it should be something just slapped on there for the sake of it, but if it's part of the character, I don't see any problem with it at all. Although warnings in the title are a good idea, for those sensative to the topic.

I think Latte has it right, with the it being the author's responsibility to portray things correctly.

 

My opinion is the same for pretty much any of these as long as the post is labelled so if it offends someone they can avoid it and as long as it doesn't break any rules of the forum I have no issues. I am some times a little urked when drug use is portrayed as glamorous, but I wouldn't go and rant at the author I would probably just avoid their photostories/shoots in future. I do like somewhat darker storylines so I don't have any problem with portraying drug use, though I completely understand why some people would and if I posted a drug related photo story I would make sure it was appropriately labelled.

 

(Yes, HM is !)

I've thought of another thing...

While I think Melvin Burgess' Junk (published as Smack in the USA) is a masterpiece of adolescent literature and everyone should read it, I was very uncomfortable reading it at school. The book is very visual and shows so many facets of addiction, and drugs were (and still are) so out of my realm of experience I didn't know what to do with the information the book gave. It was a book about drugs, but it was also a book about people. They didn't turn into zombies, they didn't rob grandmothers, they were naturally flawed and naturally gifted as any human being is, but I was very uneasy about it because I couldn't understand the peer pressure.

I have always been extremely stubborn and if I don't want to do something, you can't shift me. It would be easier to get Mohammed to go to the mountain Peer pressure was something that happened to someone else. Friends started smoking after school, I left them. Friends started drinking in parks, I left them too. I recently learned that my best friend from primary school left a rehab program for heroin addiction and knowing the person she was I wasn't surprised. She could be led, whereas I'd never be pushed...so I couldn't put myself in the place of the characters in Junk, who were persuaded that taking heroin would be a good idea, even though they knew that it was a) extremely addictive and b) detrimental to their health.

For a doll to be a drug taker/addict, they'd have to first be persuaded to take drugs...and I'm not the most empathetic person in the world - If I can't be persuaded...how could a doll be persuaded when they aren't real and susceptible to peer pressure?