Portraying Dollie Drug Use?

Well sure, but that's the basic rule of storytelling. Something must happen, the main character must make a journey (not only a physical one, but most importantly a mental/psychological one) for the story to stay interesting. Even a normal day of a junkie can be intruiging if the main character gets a call to act (whatever that call may be). He is now forced to decide to listen to it or not. If he listens, the story usually ends well, if not, well you have your basic bad ending.

To comment on the idea that stories covering drugabuse should be written to warn people:
The reason why we read stories is because we want to know what happens to the hero and because we want to see if we would make the same decissions as he did if we were in that same situation.
Of course there can still be a warning. The stories where the main character is a 'tragic hero' who dies because he made all the wrong decissions are stories to warn us. But the morale shouldn't be the most important part of what you'd like to tell; the hero's journey should be, because that's what interests people. That's what they relate to.

 

Drug use sort of grosses me out.

It's odd because I don't really get nearly as bothered by gore as much, but drug use is just something that irks me quite a bit.

That said, even if a story was good or interested, I'd have a harder time getting into it. Sympathizing or identifying with a character that uses drugs is also very difficult for me to do, so even if the story is interesting, it won't have nearly the same effect.

 

well it depends, is the photo story on an actual event or just a made educational photostory against drugs.

I think if it supports drugs I would probably be turned off immediately.

 

If I knew ahead of time there was going to be drug use in a doll photostory or something I can say honestly I wouldn't click on it, not even if it was of my favorite, super rare sculpt. I just honestly don't care to look at it, if someone wants to make one it doesn't bother me, not like I'm going to say "No! That's wrong! You can't do that!" or something, your doll, do what you want with it. I just don't care to see.

 

Haven't posted in Dolly debate in a while ^_^

While not necessarily appropriate on this forum (as others have said), I think it wouldn't be inappropriate, so long as it was handled appropriately. If it promoted drug use, or the doll was posed/made to look as if drug use was 'cool', then it's pretty much encouraging people to do something harmful - and dolls aside, I'd lose a good deal of respect for someone promoting that.

But on the other hand, if the dolls can provoke a thoughtful discussion, or used to tell a story about the negative affects of drug use - then I'd be all for it. Not talking about something won't make it go away; increasing awareness and the affects and consequences of drug use, however, can.

And sometimes in an odd way, dolls can tell a story better than people can. I know I'm hoping to tell a sad and gritty story with mine, when she arrives

 

As said before it totally comes down to how it's presented. If it's not plausable it's a turn off. For instance if someone has a character who constantly does hard core drugs, looks cool doing it, and never deals with the side affects of such behavior, I'd quit reading immediately. On the other hand, if the character did 'lived the high life' for awhile and fell I'd be interested. The same thing goes for Real vs. Made-up drugs and truly all photostories. If it's not plausable it's not worth the time.

 

OK so i just flammed here for almost nothing
im gonna try to re-say my point, but better....

i dont particuallry enjoy it. at the end all caracters are the same ''hes a a badass, he smokes/is alcoolic/on drugs & hes gay. hes also a murderer/vampire.
it bothers me so much!
im the kind of person who dreams of a better world (blahblahblah) and i think if ppl think THIS is cool, then its gonna stay the same forever!! and i also appreciate originality....
also, i had a friend who used to take drug and i kept yelling at her ''ur gonna destroy ur brain!!! why do u need such thing anyway??? u r focking stupid!!!''
i'd say pretty much the same thing to ppl who think its cool.

also, it bothers me that almost every BJD dude is homosexual. i got nothing against homosexuals, as i know it is not a personnal choice, that it can still be a very nice person, etc. (i really dont care about a person's sexuality, i never even ask) but yaoi-fangirls annoy me as hell.
as if being gay was the coolest thing in the world! ¬_¬
but im not gonna go any further than that about this subject as it is not the main one. just that i mentionned it when i first wrote this comment (and it started a war) just wanted to make it clear...er.

MY personal & humble opinion

 

Very well put! I agree, I WOULD be curious to know what goes on in that junkie's everyday life, what brought them to this point, how they handle everyday stressors, etc. Regardless of whether there is a moral to any story, and regardless of whether the story's message is ultimately one that agrees with the reader's own viewpoint, the journey should be the important bit. Some readers are squeamish about any story that doesn't take them on a journey that's identical to their own, & involves only morals that they share themselves. (i.e. casual "beach readers" ^^) But most serious readers want to explore other points of view, get inside the heads of different characters, and let that character/story take them somewhere that they might not otherwise ordinarily go.

I'm thinking of that recent HBO show 'Nurse Jackie'... That lady is clearly full of issues, but she's not a hopeless junkie, and she does gets through every day at her high-powered job. Her character has definitely not been glorified, but she hasn't been completely demonized, nor is she totally defined by her habit. I think that approach makes for some very "human" storytelling. It brings things like mental illnesses, drug habits, etc. down to the level of Ordinariness (instead of Evil), and thus turns them into traits that regular people have everyday.

I would quote this bit for emphasis especially:

... or, if not make the same decision: We at least wonder what we would possibly do, if we were in that situation. Drugs often change the way people think & decide; a good drug story can be a way to stretch the reader's ideas, about what might make us think & decide differently from the way we do now. And, since many drug stories are free to get as outlandish as they want to, they often give both writer and reader the freedom to explore such unfamiliar ideas. It can be a lesson or it can be a mere fantasy. A drug or a habit can provide a jumping-off point for "what if".

With me, instead, it's prostitution stories-- those give me SUCH fits of squirming disgust, yet I can't help reading them for the value of the "Well, crap, what would I do if that was me??" factor. :P Of course I grok that not everybody likes having their squirm-buttons pushed by stories/art, but that doesn't give them any right to claim it's not art.

 

I agree with this, and there are some potential pitfalls when people decide to heavily stress the moral of the story--namely that it can become very heavy handed to the point that it is distracting from the story as a whole and/or comes off as preaching to the viewer. If the artist really wants to use their story as a platform to give a warning/teach a lesson, then they need do so with care and make sure that what they are creating is still a balanced story.

 

Okay, so let me see here -- what I'm gathering from this is that you don't think anyone should make their dolls gay, drug addicted, or alcoholic.

This is the part where I disagree, and do it LOUDLY.

The hallmark of a really good character, in my opinion, is depth. Depth partially comes from flaws; nobody is good at everything. They have trials, personal temptations and demons that they have to overcome on their journeys. Drug addiction and alcoholism are two of many, many demons. (I won't even touch on your statements on homosexuality.) Eliminating ALL flaws and demons from any story, because it's 'stupid'? That's boring. Give me conflict and resolution, please.

It's all in how it's done, I think. Is it in the context of a larger story? Is it treated with the gravity and respect that it's due? Power to you. Does it glorify and/or glamorize drug addiction or other destructive behavior? Then I'd have a problem. Saying that nobody should ever do it and that it's 'stupid' is, I think, unnecessary.

 

Wow, I completely missed this last night. First of all, I'm not entirely sure where you're going with the whole gay dolls thing, but from what I can tell you seem to be way off the mark there. However, there are other threads for that, as to drug use...

If people where to cut out all themes that were negative and all character flaws then fiction would be a world of boring. Some people's characters aren't "nice", or at least don't always do "nice" things--after all, without conflict of some sort, stories would go nowhere, and I have a hard time finding interest in characters who are flawless human beings, because human beings by their very nature are flawed in some way. Besides, if done well, some things just make an interesting story--it's a way to look at a life that's very different from your own. You don't have to personally enjoy it, but that doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons for including it in a story or character's background.

 

Ah... I think Sahoma is not saying she/he is against homosexuality, but against the apparent "trend" of yaoi fangirlism and its non-realistic depiction of homosexuality...

...I think? Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick... I could see the potential for that all to blow out of proportion...

 

AH, i did not mean i was homophobe!!!
like kateb said, i'm against the trend thing of yaoi fangirls D:

and i just believe such bad habits should be completely erased from earth (well, not homosexuality, u cant control ur sexuality... but the fan girls and also homophobes should!!) and so making caracters with such problem is for me completely stupid!
i guess if its part of his/her PAST and that the caracter changed his habits, its ok... cuz at least he decided to change for good!
(yay, peace and love! wtf )

but tez, you are right, humans are not perfect AT ALL. but i dont believe that because of that, they should make their caracters with the worst problem imaginable... i believe if you have such bad habits and realize it, u should work to get rid of them!


i apoligize for hurting anyone's feeling. after all, it IS your right to do whatever you want with your caracters ^^ it was just MY thoughts.

 

You should take your sigs advice indeed. I have gay friends as well, and believe me they don't think there's anything wrong with themselves OR with me for making my dolls gay. I'm deeply offended that you have chosen to link homosexuality with self destructive habits like alcoholism and drug abuse

Nice people are boring, and there's nothing exciting to write about with two nice people. Frankly, I can only look at X number of cutesy "my dolly in flowers" pics before my brain starts screaming for some creatvity, some conflict:something NON cutsey. Every one of us has our weakk spot, god knows my temper gets me in trouble enough, and that's what makes us interesting. So why shouldn't my dolls also have weak spots and human failings?

 

So let me get this straight -- you still think no characters should ever have horrible problems.

Still disagreeing.

You're advocating taking the realism out of fiction. When characters have no problems whatsoever, then they're uninteresting. If people choose to illustrate a character working through such an issue (or succumbing to it eventually) that's not only their right, that's potentially very good storytelling. Portraying characters that lack the flaws so present in humanity limits one of the things that draws readers/viewers to a story -- the human element. I find fluffy endless peace and love with no conflict to be suffocatingly boring, but those are my own personal tastes. You may believe such bad things should be erased from the earth -- that's a great sentiment, but avoiding them entirely in art and fiction is just ignoring the problem which isn't conducive to educating and eradicating such negative behaviors.

Show me an addict struggling to overcome his weaknesses. Show me relapses and the agony it can cause. That's good storytelling as long as it's kept realistic. Flaws, weaknesses...those are fascinating to explore through the medium of fiction, whether it be written or enacted via doll photostory.

If you choose to only read tales with characters that lack any major flaws and avoid those that explore destructive behavior, that's your right. Don't denigrate those people who choose to explore the psychological impact of those flaws through their fiction. My feelings are by no means hurt, but if you want to avoid offending people I'd avoid blanket statements that involve the word 'stupid' since it comes off really insulting.

 

i take back what i said. i was just trying to say my point of view. i TRIED to stay polite but i dont know another that compansate for 'stupid' but that is polite! D:
BTW toshirodragon, i wrote my sig AFTER it.... because i realized that i just kept making poeple mad while it was not my point!
i did not take the fictions in considaration, it did not crossed my mind since i dont read them, but it is true it would be boring....
i just believe humans should get rid of their bad habits, so i thougt: their dolls too!

it is true that linking homosexuality with acohol and drugs was not smart of me... i did not really meant to link them. it was just an exemple.

appenrantly everyone got my thought worst than what it should be... i just dont have enough words to express it properly! and i've never good with words anyway, even with my first language......
and so, for the second time, I APOLOGIZE for hurting anyone's feeling!

 

I have to disagree with you as well and I don't think that ignoring or forbidding problems like drug abuse in stories will make the world a better place. Turning a blind eye will most likely only cause more trouble. We (humans) aren't perfect and that won't change no matter how hard we try.

 

u HAVE your right to think/like whatever you want, ITS TRUE!! so let me believe what i want as well. i KNOW i cant change humans, but everybody can dream, no?
what i meant is as long as it exists its in story, it'll for sure exist in real life as well. its sure if it doesnt exist in story it doesnt necesseraly mean it wont exist for real! i realize that as well...

aaand, im gonna stop here before i start talking again and offend someone

 

One of the reasons material like this comes up in this hobby is because a lot of people use their dolls as a means to tell a story--sometimes the characters existed before the doll, sometimes people will buy a doll and build a character and story around it. The same themes that appear in any kind of story telling such as books, movies, TV shows, plays etc will also exist in photostories and photoshoots. The same things that make a good story in a novel, will also make a good story with dolls (and some of our dolls' characters even exist in writing as well as in photographs). On top of that, it's a hobby that has a lot of folks who are a little older, so their doll related fictional material maybe more geared towards an audience of other adults and tackle some darker themes.

The way I enjoy the bjd hobby is through creating characters and writing stories about them (or putting some pre-existing characters in doll bodies)--it's what I'm into the most, more than customizing, sewing, and photography. Because of that, the way I develop my characters and relate to them may be a little different--I know what types of literary characters interest me and that carries over into my dolls. I just can't relate to or find perfection interesting, and sometimes I put my characters through bad stuff so I can them see them find the strength to deal with it. I don't have my dolls so they can be examples of perfection or flawless beauty, denizens of some perfect world. Rather I like them to be like real people, and even my fantasy characters are subject to their own issues, mistakes and bad habits.

It would be nice to live in a world where many of the things that plague people didn't exist, and I don't think you'll find much disagreement there However, that's not the world we live in, and realistically, though we humans can and should try and improve things for ourselves and our fellow man, there is no such thing as utopia and people will never be perfect and suffering will never be completely eradicated. One of the ways people deal with the difficulties that surround us is through art.

On another note, I thought you had been complaining about yaoi not being realistic rather than saying being gay was bad, but I hadn't been 100% sure. The thing to keep in mind, is that it isn't about real gay people or the gay community. It's created namely for straight women (though there are gay men that enjoy it too--something to keep in mind--it isn't universally thought of as being offensive), and so the attractive male characters naturally take center stage. It should be enjoyed for what it is (if it's the sort of thing you're into), and not taken as a statement about actually being gay. And of course expecting any kind of erotic material to actually be realistic is unrealistic in itself. Romance stories are meant to be fantasies and have little to no bearing on the real world. If this is a topic that interests you, there are some older threads that deal with this more fully here in the debate forum--I don't want to drag this thread too OT.