Really, Dollmore? Blatant Kuroshitsuji rip-off

The only thing bothering me is that they don't even make mention of the correct inspiration.

It's my understanding, that in Japan the copyright laws are a lot looser than here in North America; that things like Doujinshi (fan made comics) can use characters from official works, and still sell their comic in a normal store without catching any legal flack, because it's considered free advertising, and promotes the growth of the fan base.
Like other people have mentioned, the Dollmore dress is in no way cutting in to the profits of the original designer. What bothers me is that they don't even provide the free advertising by mentioning the source in thanks for just taking the design.

 

Well, it's obvious they aren't going to answer my email either. XD

 

I hope it remains on Dollmore for a while I totally want to get it!

 

Welcome to the murky world of "fair use" legislation. The creators of the manga could say that Dollmore unfairly took a design original to the manga but based on Cecil Beaton's designs from My Fair Lady and is making money off the back of that design, however, Dollmore can counter with the fact that their dress is a transformative work that is also based on Cecil Beaton's designs from My Fair Lady and coincidentally shares some similarities with the dress from the manga but is not an exact replica.

Den of Angels rules are a bit different to international law. What clarifies members' rights on this forum doesn't really have anything to do with the legal position that different countries take on transformative fair use.

As for me, I'm still waiting for someone who is really bothered by this to get in touch with the publishers of Kuroshitsuji so we know how they feel. We haven't even had a reply from Dollmore either...and no one seems to have got in touch with the estate of Cecil Beaton to inquire whether the estate thinks both design and dress are transformative enough of the original My Fair Lady design, so it's still all speculation and hot air. If someone did feel strongly enough about this they'd have notified the copyright holder asap.

 

If it's any sort of issue with legal overtones, don't expect companies or owners to put stuff in writing about it and e-mail it to you. That would be silly behavior on their part.

 

Both South Korea and Japan are signatories of the Berne Convention that governs international copyright protection. Most first-world countries are. It is incredibly rare in this day and age for copyright protection to end at an author's/artist's national border.

I would like to recommend that declaratory statements about the law be avoided in the thread unless the poster is well-versed in the complexities of international copyright. This is the kind of discussion that can easily lead to a lot of problematic misunderstandings. It would be a shame for DoA to become the source of erroneous beliefs about what is and is not legal in our global economy.

 

No, perhaps not. But at least if someone was actually that bothered about this they would make sure that the copyright holders knew about this issue, whether they later publicly commented on it or not, at least they would know and would have the option to pursue it themselves. All I'm seeing here is a lot of "Hmm, not bad. I don't mind it." and "Hmm, really bad. I do mind it." which I don't think the OP intended when they started the thread.

 

Dollmore new releases are not Porno Dollie Offerings. You must be referring to the lingerie models that have been recently released, with large breasts and provocative pictures. If that is not your taste, keep it to yourself, yet I dont think this commentary pertains to this thread, which discusses a particular dress that was replicated without reference to its original design.

 

well, they can do it if they bought rights.

Is there any proof that they didn't buy rights?

 

Someone once made a very poor copy of one of my paintings and posted it on Elfwood (big gallery site for amateur fantasy art). Although I try and make my living by my artwork and had made that image into prints, the copy-ist wasn't selling her image, so no big deal.

But she claimed that she had come up with the image herself, which I thought was stupid to do on a public site since someone had come by and found the image and sent it to me--so things like that you usually can't get away with!

I emailed the girl and told her that I didn't mind what she did and there was no real legal redress as far as suing her for loss of income (although copyrights ARE copyrights), but I understood copying as a learning tool, but claiming something as being theirs when it was recognizably someone else's creation--even when VERY POORLY done, it was recognizable--- was just a bit pathetic on her part.

Now, if she had just said she was trying to copy a piece of mine to learn something, or because she really liked the piece... hey, what would that have hurt her? (And then all those of you who think that free advertising by copy-ists is a good thing might have some basis to stand on... even when SOME of us would rather NOT have the "free" advertising, thank you very much!!! I have images stolen from me all over the internet and people will come up and say--oh, YOU did that? --So it does NOT help me when people do not know I did the image!!! And people rarely are able to track stuff like that down. Many people here have only found out about the anime because THE OP POSTED AND COMPLAINED about it. So much for "free advertising" for those who haven't read this post and buy from Dollmore.)

ANYWAY--nothing done by Dollmore may be illegal, but I think they are being disingenuous when they cite their "inspiration." If they respected the artist they copied from enough to think it made a cool dress to sell, they could at least credit their copying correctly. But it seems most people could care less about the original designer.... I'm not surprised, sadly.

 

april: we aren't talking about someone copying a drawing. Dollmore supposedly made a dress from an image that they saw. They didn't outright copy the drawing and claim it as their own artwork.
To tell you the truth anime companies actually encourage cosplay because it draws attention to the anime. Since your situation is completely different to the situation with Dollmore I don't really see how it applies here

I do agree though that it would have been better for them to just say where the design came from and call it a cosplay dress.

Honestly I don't think we'll ever come to a conclusion with this one. Some people thinks it's ok and some don't. At the end of the day though it isn't really our place to decide. If the current copyright holders want to peruse a case I'm sure they will do so.

 

putting my two cents in...
This doesn't seem to be uncommon among BJD-makers... Kon'D does hightops that are identical to Converses, right down to the logo. And I think a lot of owners appreciate it, because it allows them to cosplay their dolls, but not have to make the costumes themselves.
Sure, it might seem like ripping off an original creation, but it also opens up a new world for fans of the anime, where they might even make a doll that looks identical to the character, because they have the clothes to do so...

 

IMO, it's just like buying full set cosplay (for humans) of your favorite character off Ebay or other websites. ^_^

 

I don't think people lack ethics because they aren't jumping all over Dollmore. If people don't like it, fine (and I can understand where you're coming from too), however, it might also do you some good to understand where other people might be seeing things differently. There's the letter of the law when it comes to things like this, and there's how things actually work. When it comes to anime and manga it is common for people to make and sell (though in a way that doesn't directly compete with the originals) fan art, fan comics, character costumes, etc. It's part of the culture, and for the most part it's tolerated.

This Dollmore dress really isn't any different as it is not competing with the original for sales, and while Dollmore may seem like a big company to us, in the grand scheme of doll and toy companies it probably isn't and won't sell a huge volume--not at all dissimilar to purchasing a cosplay costume or buying a fan comic. If the original maker of the manga where to come out and be upset about this, then perhaps we would have a different story, but right now Dollmore's actions are in line with a lot of activities that happen along the edges of the anime/manga world.

So once again, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but it isn't as clear cut as many of the other instances of copying that come up around here concerning dolls or actual doll garments that were ripped off. It's also less about what is actually legal/illegal under copyright law and more about what is likely to be tolerated by the copyright holders.

 

maybe it's like cosplay for dolls, but i really think that they should give credit to the one who thought of it first, i mean, the author of kuroshitsuji must've (probably, i don't know) worked really hard for ciel's dress (woah, that sounded weird) anyways, they should be more considerate and think about the hard work someone did to think of the design, it's not easy

 

Actually.... It looks like a cover art work - or maybe a special design art work, like on a poster or a card. In other words, not an every-day outfit for Ciel.

While my word may not say much, but having done a bit of fashion design and drawing, coming up with a dress, starting with search of inspiration and finishing with a complete inked and colour piece (mind you, dresses are my weak points. I don't like dresses, so coming up with them is hard for me), it takes me about 4 hours. And I'm an amateur. I think someone who does these things professionally would probably take a lot less time and effort, so I wouldn't be all like "OMG LOTS OF HARD WORK".

Coming up with a regular character-specific outfit takes longer, but this isn't what we're talking about here.

To be honest, if I were to post some of my fashion designs on the internet and find out that some doll company made a doll dress of it, I don't think I'd care. Not like I'd ever have the patience to make the dresses anyways. I'd probably request a free dress, though.

 

This is an excellent plan, particularly since anyone who was that well versed would probably be leery of making blanket statements on the Internet for very good reasons.

 

From Wikipedia:

Copyright may apply to a wide range of creative, intellectual, scientific, or artistic forms, or "works". Specifics vary by jurisdiction, but these can include poems, theses, plays, other literary works, movies, dances, musical compositions, audio recordings, paintings, drawings, sculptures, photographs, software, radio and television and broadcasts.

Copyright does not cover ideas and information themselves, only the form or manner in which they are expressed. For example, the copyright to a Mickey Mouse cartoon restricts others from making copies of the cartoon or creating derivative works based on Disney's particular anthropomorphic mouse, but it does not prohibit the creation of other works about anthropomorphic mice in general, so long as they're not copies or adaptations of Disney's mouse. In many jurisdictions, copyright law makes exceptions to these restrictions when the work is copied for the purpose of commentary or other related uses (See Fair Use, Fair Dealing). However, other laws — such as trademark and patent law — may impose additional restrictions that copyright does not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

Please note that this does not include dress designs.

 

You definately need a life, if this is getting you all upset and frothing. Walk away from the computer for awhile and deal with real people.

My god its a freaking doll dress.

 

Does it REALLY matter? Who is it hurting? The person who designed the dress for the anime (apparently) took the idea from "My Fair Lady" and then the dress was modeled after the anime. No one is going to see the dress and say "Hey, now that I found a 3-D dress for dolls that looks like that, I no longer have any interest in buying the anime and supporting those artists. These things are totally interchangable and one directly affects the other." In my opinion, it's exactly like cosplay. If you wear a costume inspired by but not modeled EXACTLY after an anime costume on the street, you'd probably be a bit weirded out if someone stomped up to you and started yelling at you for "stealing ideas". It's not hurting ANYONE. If your feelings are hurt, ask yourself why. Was that dress, originally from My Fair Lady, your idea and design? Was the anime dress your idea and design? If the answer to both of those is no, and it probably is, then ask yourself why you're so upset. Is it hurting you? Is it hurting anyone? If it's not hurting anyone, then what is the problem?

Too long, didn't read: I agree with toshirodragon. "My god its a freaking doll dress." Get upset over the injustice of how humans can be treated over more important matters than the stealing/borrowing of ideas. (Also, think about how that dress is making people HAPPY. What is the point of life if it's not to be happy?)

That's just my opinion.