Recasting a company's doll in unavailable resin

is it really? because legally I don't think there's a problem. if I paid for one supia rosy and in the end, I still only have one supia rosy..... I wouldn't resell it because it is not supia resin and not enough a real supia to just "free into the wild". and by quality mod I mean: once I pay for the doll, I can do aaaaaaaaaaaaany kind of modification I want to it. recasting the doll so that the it is all even and you don't see the colour difference between the epoxy and the resin looks more quality. in the end, I paid the copyright for one Rosy and one Rosy remain. legally, could Supiadollz sew me?

and lol I just started a new debate with my parents xD
and my mom said: there is even a tiiiiiiny chance that if I make a copy and sell it but say it is a copy, I coulld get away with it. I wouldn't do it because it feels morally so wrong but my above expemble doesn't feel morally wrong. because, yes I repeat myself, but I pay for one doll and still only have one. (and for the extra details, reread my above paragraph).

edit: but for what is legal and what isn't, I think we have to keep in mind that the laws about copyright varies from a country to another.

 

Recasting is not modifying, though. Anything done to change, add to or subtract from the resin doll you purchased is a modification, which is fine. Making a mold and casting a new one is not included in that. If you (uh, general you, not you specifically) want epoxy and resin, or whatever other material and resin to match, have someone airbrush it. Making a cast of the modified part is not in itself a mod and therefore not covered by "it's your doll, do what you want". Yes, actually, depending on the country, they COULD theoretically sue you if they discovered you'd recast a doll. If people can (depending on their country) legally be liable for making an unauthorised copy of a DVD, they could certainly be liable for an illegal copy of a doll, whether it's being sold or kept for personal use. When you buy a doll you do NOT pay for any sort of copyright, you pay for that one single doll. You don't pay for the right to reproduce it, not for any reason. Whether you destroy or otherwise get rid of the original is irrelevant: the existence or not of the doll that was copied does not negate the illegality of the copy. You don't pay for the right to have a Rosy, you pay for the right to have that specific Rosy that the company created for you.*shrug* I don't really care what other people do, though. I know how I feel about it, others don't have to feel the same way.
ETA:Maybe I should say think, not do. Although really, neither are entirely true, it's just that there's very little I can do. I would love to be able to make everyone realise what a stupid, selfish, disrespectful and illegal thing it is, but I can't. All we can do is keep repeating that yes, it is illegal, and no, "personal use" is not an excuse for doing it and hope that it finally gets through to them. It does hurt the artists who sculpt the dolls, whether the person recasting makes a profit from the dolls they recast or not.

 

I'm sure the artists whose work you love would be appreciative to know how much you admire them if you take the time to ask them if you can reproduce their art. It costs nothing to ask and you could make someone's day by letting them know how much you enjoy their art. Even if they say no, your conscience is clear and you can still enjoy the art online or as a wallpaper without printing a hardcopy version.

There has recently been an issue with a Facebook group posting images of BJDs without owner permission and without crediting the owner/photographer. It does upset some people to have their work used in this way, so it clears things up neatly by asking before taking.

Making a recast is in no way the same as making a modification to an existing doll. Dying a doll green is modding, recasting a doll in green resin is creating a new doll illegally. Buying a doll doesn't mean you've bought reproduction rights.

Yes you can do aaaaaaany kind of mod you like, but recasting isn't a mod.

Most of the time I really don't care what other people do, but when it comes to illegal practices and recasts entering the hobby through people thinking 'it's okay' to make them I care a heck of a lot. I don't know anyone who has bought a recast by accident and has been happy with the purchase once they've found out. Most ethical people want to buy legitimate dolls and support the hard-working artists who make them. Hopefully it's only a minority who want to stifle creativity by buying and making recasts - really, which artist is going to be motivated to keep bringing out amazing sculpts and fantastically balanced bodies when their work keeps getting ripped off and they don't receive money for what they have made?

And before anyone says "Well, I paid for the original...", in this scenario, you paid for one doll. One. Not the rights to make as many of that sculpt as you like - even if you give the original away as a freebie.

Normalization and acceptance of recasting is insulting to the artists this hobby was built on.

 

Nope, not true.

It's legal to copy portions of a work (like a passage from a book) for non-profit, educational use. It's legal to make personal copies of downloaded (paid for) songs for personal use. But making copies to share with friends is actually not legal under US law (which is where you are from, according to your avatar).

 

I think owners of the original doll would know it was not cast in that resin, so you wouldn't really be able to share it except at sites that condone copying. If we all 'went it ourselves' why would companies be motivated to start offering thei dolls in different resins, which would be the win for everyone.

so, think about making 'copies for friends or my locker' this way: if you copy for ten friends, you have just taken ten dollars from that artist. That may be peanuts, you say, but if ten people each copy for ten friends that artist is now a hundred dollars short. Big name branded artists can take a bit of a hit, you say? What if a thousand fans copy for ten friends? And for a small independent artist producing in their basement that can mean they don't pay the bills that month.

If you choose to print a picture instead of buying the print of it, you are also taking money from that artist. I doubt Lagy Gaga is hurt if you print her albumn covers or press photos, but a small scale fledgling painter or illustrator? Heck yeah, they need the five or ten the print would cost more than they need your appreciation. Now, if a print is not available, it is preferable to ask but in that case you aren't actively choosing not to give the artist money. I know I printed plenty of band pictures for my locker when I was a wee bitty high schooler. But when it came time to get a skin for my laptop, I went through a legitimate site that pays the artists comission instead of bootlegging it.

Think about if you were the artist in question. Would you take 'oh, I love your music, my friend gave me all of it on a flash drive' as a compliment?

 

I currently have 5 EID ladies on my wish list and I am unsure about white, tanned or real skin dolls so the only option is normal skin of cos. The thought that all 5 dolls having the exact same skin colour isn't pleasant, I would love it if Iplehouse relaese an oriental skin. No dyeing as i fear it will ruin the doll. Recasting might be a option but I might ruin the doll and I lack the skills and resources. Besides, Iplehouse artists created that doll, it is their choice to release her in whatever skin tones they liked. I don't think we should challenge that by recasting their own doll in another resin. I am not saying dyeing is wrong here, it is the recasting it in a different colour part that irks me. Almost like taking something someone created and using it against them. My thoughts are a bit messed up and I hope it is understandable.
Maybe it is something like taking notes down in a novel you buy, which is fine and using the book to create another replica, which isn't alright.

 

All of these opinions make sense and please forgive me for arguing for the sake of argument. It's really very interesting...
What if I were to do the very same thing to a lesser doll like a Bratz or Monster High doll? No one would care, at least not as much because it's only a $10-$20 doll in most cases. If I did do this to a BJD, I would give the second doll to my friend. Fear not though, I won't be doing this in reality. Too much effort for something I can make completely from scratch with every detail I like. ^-^

 

I agree that people probably wouldn't care, not that is 'alright', but people wouldn't raise a big fuss over it. People view BJDs as more artistic objects than MH and Bratz.

I think there are too many myths flying around in this thread. It IS illegal to recast something without permission. The whole thing about 'no profit, personal use' is a myth. It still is illegal.

Recasting is not a modification, either. It is creating an entirely different doll, out of separate and different materials. A modification is taking the materials given, in this case the resin, and changing or adding or subtracting from them. Printing the Mona Lisa in a different color is still printing the Mona Lisa.

Bottom line, in my most humble opinion, if you want your doll a different color, dye it. "But I might mess it up!" Send it to an experienced customizer. "But that's expensive." Casting a doll is expensive.

 

Is there such a thing as a 'lesser doll'? Dolls off-topic for DoA aren't less important to collectors of those dolls. My Sekiguchi Momoko dolls are a different collection to my BJDs, but I appreciate them in the same way. There may be a similar disapproval to copying in the fashion doll hobby as in the BJD hobby - copying vinyl fashion dolls would be a different process to recasting a BJD. I don't know whether it would even be possible to recast a fashion doll in the same way bootleggers recast a BJD because a lot of fashion dolls are injection moulded in order to be mass-produced.

Mattel is very brand-protective - you can make your own fashion doll, just don't call her Barbie.

 

This. Mattel and Disney products.....don't mess with them!

As for the hypothetical recasting of any BJD, I am very gratified to see that just about everyone who posted in this thread has the moral fortitude to see recasting for what it is; illegal!

 

I spent years working for a patent, copyright and trademark attorney. I can tell you right now that recasting an existing doll, even for your own personal not-for-profit use, is illegal, immoral, and will cause rabid lemurs to devour your face.

...Well, okay, maybe I made that last part up. But seriously, don't do it. You'd be better off either (a) dyeing the company doll to suit your tastes or (b) sculpting and casting a completely original doll.

 

As an artist selling resin masks and costumes, would personally feel like my art was ripped off. Taken from it's original form and customized into something wacky and embarrassing. Though, with me, I will cast in a clear blue resin is desired, so I guess that's that.

Legally though, this is perfectly OK (I was told. I'll look at it again because most people here are saying it's illegal D: which I would support). As long as the person doesn't sell the doll and only makes one copy. If they made several, I would very much dislike it, and that would be against the law.

 

A painter would feel ripped off, if he sees his work painted in different colours in someone else's house. It's copying, it's illegal. Try doing this to Disney, or some other big company and they would rip you a new one. They'd sue you if you used one of their copyrighted names without permission, imagine what they'd do if you wave your own purple-and-blue Pinnochio in front of their faces.

I agree. Even if it weren't illegal to make a copy, doing it without contacting the artist first, could create serious problems. The artist could feel slighted, hurt or could get the wrong impression of what you want to achieve with the copy ("she likes my work, that's why she's stealing it... but of course..."). Just talking to someone could prevent a whole lot of hurt feelings and distrust, even if the owner says "no" to your request.

Besides, everybody likes to be given a compliment.

 

When you buy a doll, you buy the right to own that particular doll and not the right to reproduce the doll. If you want to reproduce the doll, you will need to acquire the rights of reproduction (by buying the rights or asking for permission). It's that simple.
If you do reproduce the doll without the right to do so, you're doing it illegally. Some people may not care about that, but it's still illegal.

 

I think it's problematic, because the doll's mold design is still someone else's intellectual property. It's still using someone else's work without credit or permission, even if the goal is to make something the original company didn't make with it.

Of course, if you contact the original artist or company for permission and receive it, it's no longer a problem. If the person who wanted to do the recasting really didn't think it was wrong, there'd be no problem to ask first, would there?

 

Disclaimer: all "you"s used are general and are not directed at anyone in particular.

I'll echo what majority have already said - when you buy a doll, you purchase that specific doll to do with as you please, you do not purchase the right to make copies of that doll regardless of intended use.

If your dream doll does not exist, you have the options already presented:

-modify the doll you bought to your taste
-negotiate with the company to cast a custom doll for you for a price
-purchase/request copying rights from the company (and, respect the company's decision)
-commission an original doll to be sculpted and cast by a talented artist
-accept the fact that you can't always get what you want

The fact is, recasting a doll even for personal use is illegal (in the USA, at least, I'm not sure about other countries); you may disagree with the law and even challenge it in court, but until you successfully change the law, you'd be breaking it by recasting a doll.

Putting aside the legal aspect, I also believe that recasting a doll without being given permission is ethically and morally wrong; and, it is extremely disrespectful to the original artist. What if the artist only wanted a set number of dolls of that sculpt to exist in the world? By recasting, you are increasing that number by 1, despite the artist's wishes. What if the artist only feels comfortable casting his creations himself? What if the artist doesn't want a sub-par copy of his doll to be created? The list of "what if"s goes on and on.

Also, I'd like to mention that it is absolutely fair to reason that if a person chooses to break the law and make an illegal recast, then that person may also break other laws, such as selling the recast to an unsuspecting buyer. Our ethics are judged by our actions.

 

Yea I guess it's illegal. But I know a lady In my area who owns a recast minifee in blue skin. I asked her why did she dye the doll she said she didn't its a recast I'm kinda poor. Ever since then we became friends

 

Legally? Probably won't get you in trouble. (Not because it's LEGAL and GOOD, but because people do bad things all the time and if they keep it private, they won't get caught. That's just life, unfortunately.)

Ethically--BAD. You are still stealing the work of the sculptor.

Also BAD-- even if you don't intend to sell it, you could become incapacitated somehow, or say, it was stolen, then it would be out in the general Marketplace and people could buy it, knowing it was a fake or not knowing... And that just messes with buyers and the ability for everyone to buy and sell dolls on the second-hand market.