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Recasting a company's doll in unavailable resin

Nov 10, 2007


    1. I think that's a bit different- In those cases you've purchased the information, the disc is just a medium for that information to be shared, so you've bought the content- the music or the software- more so than the actual physical disc. A doll is an object, and you aren't buying information which happens to be in doll form, you're buying a doll. You wouldn't make yourself a backup couch when you buy a counch, or make backup plates molded from the plates you buy, or sew yourself a backup blouse in case you rip yours... it's a different situation. : /
       
    2. Please, in my post I already said I personally don't think it is ok. However as I said also if you don't sell it I don't think it is LEGALLY wrong because you arent profitting from it and legality revolves completely around cashola in the USA. Most times anyways.

      Besides for those things there are a million plate manufaturers making hundreds of plates a day in mass factories. There is no way you can't find what you want in plates or couches unless you are a very very picky person. In my opinion, recasting is ONLY ok if NOTHING else works. If you have tried BEGGING the company and bleaching your doll and redying it... if NOTHING else works. if you really, really need the thing that badly. Then it is ok but you still shouldn't.


      EDIT: I mean, on one hand I sympathize for the person who wishes for another color. Because some companies simply WONT do things like that I think in fact it is rare to find a company that will. I sympathize with them enough to believe that they could do it if they really must, and enough to say that it isnt a crime worthy of death by stoning. I'm sorry if my feeling is wrong or offensive..
       
    3. Well, maybe it's just me. But if the colored Bambicrony elves taught us anything, maybe more companies aren't offering different colors because it is quite difficult to achieve those colors?

      I don't see why companies wouldn't offer at least a couple of dolls in different colors if there wasn't some difficulty in doing so.
       
    4. The BC elves are a whole other story. They used french resin I believe and also some people said they seemed to use the same mold-set for all the dolls and the dyes mixed and such.
      Translucent resin that is UV stable is hard to find and can only be used under extremely cautious conditions. Dyes that are stable as well are hard to mix and make sure they cure correctly.
      Opaque resin can be any color. As can be proved by many a number of toys and figures, decorations and whatnot. P.U. Resin is used for tons and tons of things just not everyone goes the extra mile and tries to use translucent.

      Translucent resin was made to emulate glass and be used in applications where it was emulating glass, or in the manufacture of durable 'glass' things. It wasn't made for what doll companies' use it for, case-in-point.
       
    5. BTW, according to the courts, when you buy software, you are NOT buying anything. You are merely purchasing the right to USE the software, which is why the companies reserve the right to limit your use to a single computer, or in the case of music, to limit how many times you can copy from the CD (Sony is the worst.). You are essentially RENTING the software, or the music. And just try to make a backup disc of some of the newest programs -- just try.

      Under the backup clause, which techinically came about with mass media portability, you are indeed allowed to make a back up copy for your own use. However, with media like dvds, selling the SOFTWARE that would enable you to do so is technically illegal!

      And the "no profit being made" has been around a long time as an excuse. We used it for SF fanzines from the beginning. But take a good look at the FBI warning notice at the beginning of DVD movies these days. They've inserted a special clause to address that. All the company has to claim is a perceived impact on THEIR profit.
       
    6. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you ^^; I was just trying to point out the reasons that making a backup of music or software is different from making a backup of a physical object. :)

      As for the legalities of doing things for profit vs. for yourself, I know to a lot of people profit is the main consideration (ie. not making money off of something means you have more freedom), but it may be different to the person who first made the thing you're altering- for example Anne Rice and her extreme reaction to fan fiction. Although nobody was making money off of fanfiction of her books/characters, she did "own" them and she was offended enough by the ways that other people altered her stories to take action. A court will probably find in favor of the owner of the copyright even if there's no direct profit involved.... if the copyright owner cares enough to pursue. *shrug* I remember a lot of fan sites of various TV shows being taken offline, ages ago, which weren't making money but which FOX didn't want to see around. Most of the time, though, that kind of thing is settled before the courts get involved, so I don't know what the actual legal system would tend to decide.
       
    7. People aren't saying that because they want to be spiteful and think that any recasts are ugly by default. We're saying that because unless you're experienced at casting dolls yourself, it's not easy to recast a doll perfectly. Plus, if we're talking about different coloured resins, it's also not easy to produce the exact colour you want evenly. I'm no expert at casting or resin-mixing, but from the artists' casts here on DoA, I can tell it's really not an easy job (and we've seen a number of botched castings too). We say that there's a high possibility that recasts will come out very much less than perfect or even an outright failure because that's common sense speaking.

      One of the mods says that recasts of dolls aren't allowed to be posted here on DoA, so no worries about hate PMs!
       
    8. My first reaction was to say “NO NO NO THAT'S BAD!!! {{insert over reaction}}”.

      But everyone has raised such good points. Should the recasted doll in question be enjoyed only by yourself, never ever offered for sale, and the original destroyed during the mold making process (and the molds destoryed too, of course), who is to say that any harm is coming from it?

      Now, a part of me still wants to say that morally the act is questionable. And I think it is clear that no one is enforcing recasting any dolls.

      Of course there are other methods to produce a dream doll, such as resin dying and even full body airbrushing as many have mentioned, but the fact still remains that if you want your doll to have a slightly translucent blue resin there is no way to get that desired affect unless the doll truly is cast in a translucent blue resin.

      Should a person have the skill, the determination, and the materials needed to undertake such a project I would not stand in their way. It shows a mass amount of dedication and talent to be able to recast a doll to a certain specification.

      However, would the results really be worth it? You'd be so limited to what you could do with your new piece. The doll could not be posted on any reputable website, could not attend dollmeets, really all this doll could do is exist to make you happy. I don't have a problem with the last point. However, would that be enough for someone who has taken such pains to create something they desired so strongly?
       
    9. It kind of begs what happens to the original doll. I'm mean, maybe I'm just a bit strange (I've picked up stray toys from the side of the road ^.^') but it seems kind of cruel. Like cloning yourself and giving your clone super powers, I guess. Makes you seem a bit superfluous really.

      Even if you didn't sell the original, I think it's a little harsh on the original doll. Would you leave him sitting around or legitimately use him, in the end negating the fact you didn't sell him and giving you two dolls for the price of one.

      There are also numerous very talented artists around who would assist in re-sculpting or dying your doll, whether for a price or not. Isn't resin meant to be poisonous in any case? Then it starts sounding dangerous.
       
    10. Given my lack of concern for the morals and/or approval of any internet community, or, for that matter, the world at large, as well as the abundant sculpting and casting supplies and know-how currently at my disposal...... yeah, hell, I'd do it. Except for the fact that re-casting a doll would be pricier and more time consuming and probably yield lesser results than buying a 'legal' doll would. That, and I have no burning desire for a company doll of a different color...yet.

      Would I sell copies? Heck no. There are far more lucrative illegal markets out there, should I lean towards that particular career path. It would be easier to make my own sculpt than worry about the impending wrath of the doll gods and those who serve them. Would I be tempted to hand out copies to my friends? Not once I realized that I could buy them a better doll more cheaply...or, for that matter, if my friends were even that lucky. Heh heh heh.

      Summary: Any 'immoral' aspects of such a project aren't really profitable enough to be worth it. Unless, you know, it's worth it to you.
       
    11. In no way would you get two dolls for the price of one. Personally casting a doll, from what I've seen and read, is twice the price of some of these cheaper company's full dolls, and definteily take into consideration that it won't take you just one try to get it right. Its not a money-saver, for sure.

      I'm interested about the 'never take it to a meet' thing also. Unless your meet group has enforced the rules of DOA, I don't see anything wrong with taking it to a meet, or to convention...or posting on the web, or posting on other doll forums, or posting in forums that might have a related subject, like if its your character for your stories, to post it on your story page, webcomic page, ect. The limit of exposure is only /here/, and we've all posted pictures of our dolls here in the gallery where you got 2 views and no responses. I love sharing and this community is important to me, definitely, but I think my personal webpage does a much better job sharing my dolls with the world. I just need to add a forum :D
       
    12. From a personal standpoint, it would be more expensive to recast. However, as far as the company is concerned? You did get two dolls for the price of one, since you only paid them the price of one. So in that regard, you are stealing the revenue of that second doll.

      Not to mention, I do wonder how many people would actually destroy the original. And how many who, after going to the work and expense of making all of those molds, would stop at just casting the one replacement. Or if it would become a cheap way to get bodies for option heads.
       
    13. Rather than recasting a doll perhaps a petition for the company to look into casting dolls in resin colors is more appropriate. (Unless of course the person's intent is to have a one of a kind no one else can have one like this doll) The company doesn't have to listen but they at least get an idea of interest. There's also the other option commissioning an artist to sculpt the doll you want and pay bobobie to cast and mold the doll in blue resin. Not a cheap endeavor either way but more likely to produce quality controlled parts

      What I found amusing is the example mold used is it really someone's "dream" doll or is it that one is looking to have a one of a kind of a popular mold.

      If it's a "dream" doll of a character I envision and money is not an object I'd commission an artist that specializes in casting in colored resin to sculpt and cast the dream doll with the features that interest me the most.

      Recasting an existing doll in colored resin is stealing from the company and the original artist. The expense of recasting makes it doubtful the person would then destroy the original doll and mold.
       
    14. I don't approve of the idea mostly because I consider these dolls art. I guess you could compare this idea to making a print of a famous painting but somehow these dolls just have so much life to them in their owners' and makers' eyes that I think it would very likely be offensive to their original sculptors.

      On the other hand, if you really wanted a certain mold in another shade of resin or what not and you were able to get permission from the owners of the copyright and the original creators then I think it would be a perfectly acceptable idea. The fact is that Barbie will sue your butt off if you misuse any of their molds or even their names (I had a fanfic site names bondagebarbie.com and they threatened to sue me!), so protecting the designs of your dolls is certainly considered a legitimate claim in court. :)
       
    15. exactly!

      This is not even close to the same situation as copying the masters for art study, or making a backup copies of a CD (which, btw, you are only allowed to use 1 at any time - you cannot use it on your ipod and let your sister play the cd on her stereo).

      The more appropriate analogy is: I made a piece of art and you wanted it, but in different colors. so you decided to copy it the way you wanted it. Even if you never tried to sell it, it is a violation of my copyright as an unauthorized derivative. If you really want it you should commission it from me - copying it yourself deprives me of that income. Even if you bought the original in the 'wrong' colors, it does not give you the right to make a copy/derivative for your own use.

      I wonder why this is even a debate? it's clearly wrong, both ethically/morally and legally.
       
    16. It was vaguely touched on, on page two, but I'm curious... what do people think of recasting just a piece of a doll for modding purposes?

      Hypothetical situation: If someone were making a Suigintou doll, what would people think of them buying a doll with a three part torso and then recasting the middle torso in a clear resin to make her missing middle piece? Would the situation change because it's only a piece that is being recast? What if the original torso piece were destroyed once the cast was made versus if the original torso piece were not destroyed?
       
    17. That's true.. I dunno, there are a lot of points for and against it, but the scorned customer part of me thinks that the companies should either accomodate their customers' wishes for other colors (at a price, if they must. Blue/yellow/red/white/flesh dyes usually come in packs as far as I've seen so they are likely just tossing the blue's and whatnot anyways) or get over it.

      :( Because personally, if I really really wanted another color, and bleaching/dying wouldnt produce a sufficient color (except if you used a BW doll as a base which you cant even order normally from Volks if I remember correctly) I wouldn't know what to do.
      (Oh, and I wasn't offended.. I just don't wanna come off as being insensitive to the issue. I am, I just don't see it as reasonable to fully and faithfully support companies who occaisionally tell their customers that things are how they are and to get over them.. which if you look around, just about every company has so far. )
       
    18. "get over it" as in they should allow their work to be copied? that's a bit ridiculous. Why should companies accept illegal copying or maing of illegal derivatives?

      Would you go to Picasso and say "sorry Mr Picasso, I love your paintings, but enough of the blue. I want yellow and if you don't start painting yellow you should just accept that I'm going to copy it".

      No company or artist is required to fulfill every customers wish, but that does not mean you can take matters into your own hands.
       
    19. No! Not as in allowing it to be copied. I already said I don't agree with it but eesh companies could at least standardize BW so that people can dye the dolls easily and however they choose.

      EDIT: Meh... please do not reply to me anymore because I have done enough damage to myself and others and I am no longer going to reply. I'm sorry for sounding so dumb. Sometimes I wish on the internet meanings were not misconstrued so easily.
       
    20. I'm sure the button-maker thought of his design as a form of art. In some cases, perhaps even copyrighted it. By the same token, I'm sure there are people who don't see dolls as art. I don't happen to be one of them, but I don't feel you can differentiate.

      edited to add, And this is a debate because the issues are not as clear as some people wrongly think they are.