Should limiteds or oneoffs be modified or split into pieces?

See, I have the Asha LE30 Noir, and I have ripped out her eyelashes and replaced them with long black ones (instead of the red-tipped nonsense that Dollmore insisted on), started blushing her, sealed her makeup with gloss, changed out her wig (to the point of refusing to believe she was actually shipped to me with the monstrosity on her head), wired her, and many other minor mods. She's my doll, I paid through the nose for her, I want her to look like MY doll. I love her sculpt, but I would never judge someone for heavy modding a limited sculpt so that it more closely fits their dream doll.
but that's just me.

 

All of my BJDs are limiteds, and probably the most limited of them being Black Melody Narsha (15), and Custom House Petite Ai Raphael Little Prince (20?). I fall in love with the complete doll and tend to leave them that way, but that's just my preference. The only modifications I've made to any of my group have been separating fingers, seam removal, and of course I've changed eyes and wigs. But I believe that One-Offs should not be drastically altered...by all means change their clothes, let them try on different wigs and eyes...but wiping the original face-up, or sanding off physical features...I wouldn't. To me its like spray painting the Mona Lisa. Why not leave the One-Offs for another who would appreciate the masterpiece the artist created, and preserve that art intact? This is just my humble opinion, but why not just get the regular edition of the doll to modify to your heart's content?

Juli DC

 

Well, since I requested this topic (probably among others), I suppose I ought to reply. I suppose I might start by saying that limiteds with a pretty big release size (such as most volks limiteds) are, in my opinion, fair game. The only thing I really don't approve of even with large editions is selling off the wig, eyes, and outfit of a limited doll that has not or has barely even arrived yet... Be it to make minimum payment on the credit card or whatever, I just don't think its very respectful to go piece-mealing out a brand new limited before you're sure you will be keeping it. I see people do this and then sell the totally stripped doll a week or two after. Can't it wait?

I think differently of extremely limited dolls with runs of under 100 or so. I suppose I can understand if that head mold *really* is only available that once, but otherwise I think the face-up should be kept as-is, and the outfit kept stored in the box if not in use. I get that people will obviously do what they please with their dolls, but I think when the run is so small its a matter of respect for the artist to keep it more or less as-is.

I think we are mainly of one mind when it comes to one-offs, but I can think of a case where a pair of one-off dolls were released as a set (not just that they matched but you actually had to buy them together) and the person who bought them sold one of them and kept the other. I can only imagine how upsetting that would be to the artist. I suppose people think the dolls are so expensive they shouldn't have to care about that.

 

Even with one-offs, though, it's hard to take such a hard line stance. Sometimes one-offs are of REALLY difficult to find molds that would be enormously expensive if you bought one off of YJ or somewhere. Like, say, a Lady Sylvie or Cyndy or Tsukasa -- dolls that haven't had new versions in years -- one-off. I can totally understand getting that doll and wiping the faceup and selling off the clothes because it's the chance to get a sculpt you really love without paying a jacked up price for it. If it's a Kun or a Yori or a Syo, I can totally see the annoyance there. But with hard to find molds, I can understand wiping it as well.

 

I really feel the way julidc does.
I am a "you paid for it, you do what you want with it" sort of person. But when it comes to One-Offs or extreme limiteds, I feel like they are works of art. Especially with companies like Volks and Custom House, where all One-offs and some LEs are painted by established, saught after artists. To me, wiping the face-up of such an artist's work is just like defacing.
I am the kind of person who buys a doll with soo much research and thought, the doll is perfect or near perfect when default! I am just odd like that, but it has saved me much trouble. I think if you have to mod a doll to like it, then you should be looking for a different mold.
Sanding, sueding, glossing lips, and wiring are all acceptable, since they are not mods, they are enhancments. Especially eyelashes, as they usually need to be replaced every so often any way.
Sometimes I find most people are quick to assume the only way to get a certain mold is to wait for the One off or LE, patience and a good WTB add will almost always succeed!
*Jen

 

seconded :3

I mean.. if there was a basic or normal version of the doll you want to mod, then obviously you will buy that one instead because it will be cheaper. I think few people would buy an unique from custom house and then wipe the face-up off and sell the clothes, because the mold isn't different from the basic ones. If you buy a limited or one-off an then mod it, then there's probably because there's something that limited or unique doll you want to have that no other doll has, and then I don't think that someone who wants it the way it is from the company has more "rights" to own that doll or anything.

 

Of the four dolls I own, three are limiteds. Only my Vamp Elf Chiwoo have I modded, but the main reason I bought him was because I wanted a Vamp woosoo, yet couldn't afford one. And having him an elf worked better for his character. When I buy a doll I have absolutely no intention of selling it, so I think that if I want to change parts of it to suit me, then thats fine. A lot of this hobby is about customising a doll to make it your own, why should that be restricted to just general release dolls?

As for "extreme limiteds" (or under 100 as roux said), I still think its up to the person. I'm not going to pay $1000 for a doll just to have it sit on a shelf so that it stays in perfect condition. I buy my dolls to play with them. Because of this, my Dollmore Black Lilith's (which was an LE50) face up is coming off, and I have to get her a new one. It makes me sad that I have to wipe off her faceup, but at the same time its exciting, as she is becoming more unique.

 

Personally, I do not like the idea of modifying an extremely limited (say, less than ten) or one-off doll. I think that one-offs, and possibly some of the really rare limiteds, are "art" or close to it, and that it is both unwise and in bad taste to alter them. I think the "I bought it, I own it, I can do whatever I want to it" argument is a little too simple - how would you feel if someone "modified" a beautiful painting or a statue? Sure, they are the property of their owners - but just as you would cringe to see someone buying a lovely painting only to dab on a few inexpert globs of paint of their own, so would I wince to see one-off dolls being modified. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is morally wrong, since these are sold as dolls and not as fine art items - i.e., while a painter sells his/her painting expecting you to hang it on the wall and not use it as a trampoline, the bjd manufacturer sells his/her doll understanding that you might modify it or play with it - but nonetheless I disapprove.

When it's a larger edition of limiteds, though, I think it matters less; I trust there will always be a few collectors keeping their dolls in mint condition, so the artist's work is not completely lost.

 

I have to say that I had been itching to sand my sister's chris but she would probably murder me if I do so.

To me limited is perfectly okay to mod. Certain dolls are only available as a limited edition and people who like the sculpt would have no choice but to get the LE. My sis and I hated how the white cat chris default face up and clothes are. I wiped his face a couple of days after his arrival and my sister rather borrow my boys' clothes while she wait for his new clothes to get here. I used to want a scarface cecile and I told myself I would have wiped his pink face up off and sand his cheek down the moment he got here. (kind of glad I got over him by now actually)

I don't know why people would buy one offs/unique/etc to mod though ^^"
Its kind of.. wierd to do that. I have to admit that my unique jun is no longer anything close to being a unique. I didn't like how he looked in that wig so I changed it the moment I got a new one. His lips paint rubbed off sometime ago and I had to get him repainted. His default clothes being so old frayed abit and is now kept in a box =S

For one-offs, my stand about face up would be wait till it gets damaged or rubbed off, then it makes sense to change it.

 

I believe the answer will vary with different doll owners. Some doll owners collect dolls like artworks, so they'll keep one-off's or limiteds as they are. Displaying them in glass cabinets and sometimes bringing them out to photograph. There are also large numbers of doll owners who collect dolls to 'play with'. Playing means having fun with changing a doll's eye/hair/clothes, faceup and sometimes features (modding). I myself belong to the latter group. I have my own plans for how my doll will dress and look like. For one-offs, the reason I'll buy one is because I like the doll mold and it's difficult to get as a standard doll, or the clothes, or both.

If the mold I like is rare and I don't fancy the clothes that much, I'll get the one-off and sell the clothes off to someone who will have more use for it. Initially yes, the clothes are meant for that one-off doll, but having plans of my own, I'd like to dress my doll the way I want to and someone else who likes that set of clothes can love it more than me by buying them off me. I'll feel bad if a special set of clothes is not well-publicised, so why not let it go to someone who will have more use of these specially-made clothes instead of keeping them in a box where it'll never see daylight? The art and quality of the seamstress will not be lost. One-off's are just one of the ways to showcase seamstresses and faceup artists' talents. I'd be happy to keep the original faceup if I like it. But if I don't/if it's fading off, I'll have it changed. I'll definetly feel the pain of wiping that expensive faceup off (as it's a one off and you pay for the faceup) but I'd rather spend more to make that doll into the perfect one for me.

About modding, it's also much what the latter group of doll owners do. To attain the doll of your dreams and if the default doesn't quite make it, we'll have to change it. That's the main thing. The doll hobby allows for customizations, so there shouldn't be any limits to whether one can mod a standard doll or a limited doll or not. I bet the faceup artists know that too. So in events where one-off's and limiteds are displayed, their original beauty will be showcased and the individual artists featured for their faceup and sewing talents. Afterwhich, it's up to the owners to do what they wish to their dolls. It can sound selfish, but who doesn't want to own a doll we'll love to pieces? Some like them default, some like them modded. It's a matter of differing tastes. :] There is no should or should not in this hobby.

Some see one-offs/standards like paintings/artworks, others see them as an outlet for creativity and a form of expression by doing mods/changing them. ^^

 

I have to admit that it makes me cringe a bit when I think about it... HOWEVER--I have seen fabulous mods on limiteds and they make the doll so much more precious...

SO... I guess it must be OK. Whether a mod or split is good or bad is such a personal decision and must be up to the owner to decide.

[edit] I have a Volks One-Off... I will keep him as he is because I liked him--and his outfit--as he was when I bought him. I change his clothes and wigs, of course. I won't change his eyes, as they are a part of who he is. (Plus they're glued in!! ) But that's my own personal decision.

 

For me, it depends on what you call a modification. If sanding seams counts, then yeah I've modified a limited doll, and I don't regret it one bit! I have a Bambicrony LSG elf Pepe, and who knows how many of those were made. It is probably the more popular color and sculpt of the release, but he is still limited. I didn't purchase the Viya face up because I wanted something less girly and more original. Would that be considered a modification as well? Does that make him more or less desirable? It is only in the eye of the beholder.

I've also purchased a Unidoll UH-17 with default face up, limited to 200. Because his face up was free, if I ever decide I don't like it I won't have any problems wiping it off and giving him a new one. He is the sculpt out of my dreams, why shouldn't I enjoy him to his full potential? If he was sitting around and I was unhappy with him because of something so simple as a face up issue, I would much rather have it fixed than feel I should sell him to someone else who Might enjoy him as he is.

If I someday decide to cut a gaping hole in his chest and make him a zombie, I doubt I'll feel bad about it. I bought him, he's mine to do with as I please. But I don't feel I would rush into it. Modifications are like tattoos on humans. Once they go on they can't be reversed. Any efforts to go back and erase tattoos will cost much more than they did in the first place and leave scars. You will never be the same again. Limited dolls are the same way.

Senseless and bad modifications bother me though. If there is a way to get what you desire with out modifying a limited doll, then that route should be taken. Changing a one-off just because you CAN (even though you really don't need to) is just senseless and takes away someone else's opportunity to enjoy the limited. When other options are available, I feel that they should be taken when ever possible.

 

It's a pretty grey area when it comes to these dolls as the whole purpose for their existance is to be personalised. My opinions are torn in that respect.

In the case of other types of dolls (not BJD)eagerly sought by collectors then yes I would say it's wrong to modify them greatly (replace the eyes, cut the hair, etc) then try to sell them off for the same price as a mint condition one as it is no longer the doll you bought and you have made the doll less valuable (ever watched any antiques programmes????). Example: There's a very sought after make of almost lifesize childlike doll some of which are incredibly endearing the cost of which runs into hundreds of £, all limited editions, each year's collection has specially designed clothing, specially made german handblown glass eyes, and sometimes very complex human hair wigs. Now yes I know some people want to make them fit in with the 'family' and change their clothes or perhaps let down tied up hair, etc... that's fair enough I have no problem with that as those things can be put back more or less to the way they were if they wanted to part with them later on. I do however hate seeing ones for sale with cut hair and replaced eyes as the whole character of that particular model has now been destroyed and usually that's why they try and resell them. I recently saw a dark skinned one, from a collection that was all about different nationalities, for sale with her long curly hair straightened, badly cut and her dark hazel eyes replaced with hideous cheap looking blue ones and they had the audacity to ask the same price as they would for an as new version. If they didn't like the way it looked, why buy it in the first place??
Now with BJDs the whole point is customisation, as many have said the only way of perhaps getting a particular head mold with say elf ears or a certain resin colour is to buy a limited so I'm fine with that, I can understand why people would do so, in that case then if someone feels they need to change a few things to bond with them then to an extent that's fine, your doll, you payed for it.
My only issue would come with someone who say bought a limited version of an easily purchased doll where the 'limited' part was a face up by a particular artist, specially designed clothes, wig, and such but no actual changes in the physical shape then as soon as they got the doll they scrubbed off the face, removed and sold the clothes, wig, blah blah and in fact removed everything that made that doll a limited when they could have just as easily bought a normal basic version of exactly the same doll. Now that to me seems a bit strange and rather selfish. Fine if all you did was change the wig or clothes to suit (personally I would keep those in a safe place just in case for any reason the doll had to be rehomed so they can be put back to the way they were)but to remove even the hard work of the person that went to the trouble of painting the face for you?? What was the point in doing that other than greed from selling off the accessories!

That's just my opinion, some may agree, some may disagree. We all have our own standards and versions of right and wrong.

 

The thing is, people view them differently--I do see bjds as art to an extent, however they are art created by both the orginal artists and their owners, due to the customization factors. I don't see it as defacement when customization is such a large part of the hobby. I would probably choose not to mod a very limited run doll, however, I can't be mad that someone else would. Also, these rare dolls will not stay pristine unless they are put on a shelf and not messed with much. Faceups eventually come off, and wigs can get funky afterawhile. While it's ok, to put them on a shelf to admire them (people should do what makes them happy), this has been a hobby where keeping things in mint condition isn't as important.

 

The reponses to this topic are really interesting, seeing as there are the people who see the limited doll, packaged as a limited character/entity as an art form, or the doll as a more flexible art form that allows the owner to cast their own creativity. Because I'm more interested in teh customisation aspects of this hobby and I've this idea that the companies producing these dolls are kind of intending these dolls to be customised (I have no idea where I picked this idea up from, by the way), I don't think that there's really a problem in customising - since that seems to be such a large part of the hobby. It's a bit like having a really expensive and amazing chair in a gallery or museum as opposed to using it... not a very good example, but I hope people get what I mean.

 

quite frankly, it is no one's right to tell anyone else what they should or should not do with their own doll. If i spend 800+ dollars on a limited doll, there better not be anyone standing up to tell me what i can or can't do with it. It's my doll, my money, and my right to do with it as i will, wether it be leaving it as it is, or taking a permanent marker and coloring it black. It is not up to us to point at anyone who changes a limited doll. Their money, thier doll, their rights. Just my opinion.

 

I, too, am one who requested this topic, well, sort of. I am speaking only to the one-off issue.

Although I agree that it is your doll to do with whatever you please, it truly breaks my heart to see people buy these gorgeous one-offs and then proceed to sell off the outfit and wig. And occasionally the faceups are wiped. Or the head is put on another body, etc.

It's just that there are others out there for whom this is their dream doll, and it's just very hard to watch what I consider to be a downward spiral. Personally I would not try for a one-off if I was not completely in love with the entire package.

I think that breaking up limiteds is a completely different subject. I'm not sure why both thoughts were combined into one thread here. JMHO.

I am very curious to know if others feel this way about the one-offs, particularly the Volks dolls which we now have better access to at the NY and LA Dolpas and Teas.

 

With limiteds I don't have so much of a problem with splits. Especially if the limited is limited because of outfit.

I do feel it is your doll to do with as you please but I still cringe when I see a particularly lovely one-off with an altered faceup.

One-off to me seem like they are works of art that you are lucky enough to win the chance of owning. It's like taking a Monet and adding modifications to it.

 

I'm a bit torn on the subject of one-offs, as opposed to limiteds (which I feel can be altered, split, etc. with no issues whatsoever).
I attended the last NYC dolpa and I did put in for a one-off (the jun t.) but I didn't win. Looking back, even though I loved the doll, a part of me is glad that I didn't win her. I would have felt pressure not to change her at all, and probably wouldn't have been able to bond with a doll that I could never make my own. For what it's worth, I would not have sold her costume or wig. I would have kept them together and safe as part of her original set. As for the face-up, unless you don't handle the doll at all, isn't the face-up going to fade eventually anyway?
Yes, they are one of a kind and it's a bit sad to see the face-up wiped or the costume changed. On the other hand, if someone's dream doll is a mold which they couldn't otherwise get, and that mold shows up as a one-off, should they forego the chance to have their dream doll so that someone else can get theirs? Is one person's dream doll worth more than someone else's? I guess one could make the point that almost any mold can be had if you're willing to pay enough. Therefore, buying a one-off for that purpose shouldn't be necessary. But if a one-off is $900 as opposed to paying $2000 on the secondary market for a popular limited sculpt, I don't think it's fair to tell someone they can't buy that doll unless they keep it exactly the same.

Edited to add: I'd be curious to hear Volks' "official" opinion on the care and feeding of one-offs, since they are the ones creating the gorgeous one-of-a-kind costumes and the individual face-ups. If they feel that the dolls really should be treated quite differently, not changed and not re-painted, etc, then I would be all means say that those who purchase one-offs should respect that. If they were to say that the one-offs should be personalized just like any other doll, then IMO people shouldn't argue with that either. Volks always stressed the customization and "make it your own" aspect of their dolls, so it would be interesting to hear how they feel on this topic.

 

Misa1 on the faceup Volks does offer at least in Japan faceup retake for their dolls. With one-offs they are only available to their original owner.

1) You can't request other faceup. (= custom makeup)
2) If you want them to put new eyelashes by glue, you need to pay 1,050yen + eyelash cost.
3) FCS, One Off model can't accept this service after you changed original faceup (over makeup, other customer's faceup etc). Limited models like Shirou are OK. (Even if you removed/changed faceups, you can accept this service.)
4) If you had modified head mold, you can't accept this service. But you can trade that head for brand new head. (Then you need to pay the cost for it.)

I took the information from ria_ria's faceup satogaeri services.


I have a question to add to the debate open to all not specifically to Misa1 then lets say your dream doll is the default faceup Jun T. and you got a one-off Jun T. You have access to and can get the one-off Jun T. faceup remade to the default Jun T. faceup this would still cost less than getting the standard limited Jun T. on second market is this right to do?

edit: My personal opinion would be no and it would seem rather rude to ask of volks and insulting to their artist. I'd more likely try to find someone to trade with. I personally wouldn't have put in for the one-off unless I wanted it in the first place.