Should Second-Hand Buyers pay back YOUR shipping?

Sellers have the right to sell their things at whatever price they deem.
most probably , its the buyer who chooses.
depending if the buyer is ok with the price.

 

Personally, I think its absurd and pretentious for people to think they have a say in what someone can or can't do with their personal property... And that includes pricing, modding, splitting or destroying their dolls. :/

I don't think there is any lack of integrity or ethic/moral judgment in adding the cost of initial shipping to the resale of an item.

Now, adding the Paypal fee is another story. One that I'm a bit torn on. Its actually against paypal TOS. So its wrong on that count. As the seller is making the buyer pay their fees for their paypal service. And I find it further outrageous that some of those same sellers will rip into other sellers who do it when they have an item they want.

I don't charge the paypal fee because thats a fee I pay for a convenient service I signed up for. But I would be inclined to add the original cost of shipping of a discontinued item to the resale price of the item to recoup costs. But then I also consider supply and demand, and difficulty to replace, when I sell something. Because in many cases, I can NOT replace the item. Because supply is next to nothing (or even ooak) on many of the things I come across.

Sometimes, it seems some people in the community feel they have a RIGHT to the item they want at the price or condition they want it and any collector who dares price at retail or higher based on supply/demand is unethical. But thats just not how markets work. I have a Beryl listed on feeler. And because she is "second hand", this individual (who is not on DoA) lectured me on how I should sell it to her significantly BELOW original retail since she was second hand. But thats not how collectibles or markets work. And her condescension and pretentiousness spurred me to laugh in her face outright. Something I normally would never do. And when I put Beryl on feeler, I already knew that if I do sell her, I would not take less than what I paid in FULL for her, because there is no way I'd ever be able to replace her for less than I paid (if that) should I decide the sale was a mistake.

I think people need to remember...

An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Just because you're not willing, doesn't mean everyone else isn't.

An item can be prices as the current OWNER sees fit to value the item at.

The pricing and fate of an item is entirely up to the owner, no one else.

 

It seems that almost everyone is siding with the stand-point where adding the shipping price to a second-hand sale is wrong.
I agree with this, and the reason behind my opinion is this:

If a person buys a doll for $300, and they pay $10 for shipping, it's a brand-new doll.
The reason for buying the doll can differ from collecting, adding to your family, or simply to having a gorgeous doll.
But we must remember, that there are people out there that buy things and keep them new simply to resell them. (A practice that I, myself, do not agree upon, unless its land.)
But these people are always looking to make a profit from their purchase. So, I think these are the people who would inflate the price that way.
Normal doll owners are usually so happy to have their dolls, that they hold on to them for a while before saying Goodbye to their dollies. And when they do decide to sell, I haven't really seen any cases (myself anyway), where they don't carefully consider the actual value of the doll. After age, damage, defects, and original selling price, the only other thing that I've seen most commonly is emotional value. And usually, if they're too attached they won't let them go.

But I digress. Raising the price to include the original shipping price is too much to ask for, even if you ARE a sleezeball who only buys dolls to sell them at a higher price.
It was your burden to deal with, don't slap it onto an innocent doll-enthusiast.

 

I can't say that I like the idea of someone marking their item for shipping to them and then to me. But then again it's kind of like passing it along as though they never had the item.

I can't say that I like paying for that. However, I don't think I'd mind if they only put the cost of the item at Market+shipping to them and didn't charge me shipping. Granted, things don't work that way, but it'd not bother me all that much if things worked like that, I guess.

 

I just think that if you're going to do that, don't make it obvious. I will not buy a doll where it is transparently shown I will have to pay for someone else's shipping on top of the costs of the doll and in addition to the shipping fees and customs fees I will have to pay for myself. Charging the fees on top of the doll's value is quite cheeky, but making it obvious that's what you are doing takes the cake!

Obviously according to rarity and interest, the value of an item goes up or down, but I'm just left open-mouthed by people who put out an itemised list of how they came up with the price for their doll. Just decide on a flat figure and put that up. If someone wants to haggle, let them. Like Rage_Razor said, it's the owner that gets to decide.

If you are set on recouping everything you spent on the doll, that's your prerogative, but don't try and persuade me as a buyer to purchase your doll, when you're also telling me I have to pay for everything you did, shipping included. This hobby is expensive enough without having to pay twice for shipping and tax, when buyers should really only have to handle their own shipping and tax.

 

I admit I was quite surprised to see some sellers charge more for a secondhand doll with defects than the original price. I would expect a price drop, not a price rise. I consider these dolls collector items, and defects usually mean a drastic drop in price. However, I don't think any informed buyer would buy such an item, and trying to enforce a rule limiting how much a seller should charge would be too bureaucratic, but perhaps I'm wrong.

 

It's not something I'd do.
As has been mentioned before in a few threads including this one, I don't want to know the breakdown of the costs. Sometimes the "whys" of selling are, I feel, an interesting point to add, i.e. "I'm leaving the hobby" or "we didn't bond" ... it makes me feel more a little more secure about viewing a sale.

 

its really hard to say if a seller is charging too much there are other factors to consider like faceups. alot of dolls have custom faceups that either they or another artist did and there price will reflect that. and since faceup artists charge different prices. there is no reason to think that just because the doll is being sold by the company for X amount the doll being sold in the marketplace wouldnt be higher especially if it has a custom faceup all things to take into consideration when buying a doll that may be higher then the company has the doll for. In the end the seller can sell the doll for whatever they like and if a buyer doesnt like the price they can go elsewhere and often do .Ive been fortunate to not have to need to sell a doll but more I just decide too so for me taken a huge loss just isnt worth it and I wont do it. I take pride in my dolls and they all have unique faceups by talented faceup artists I think to look at a price and determine well thats not fair one should consider any mods or faceups body blushings etc when deciding if they want to pay the price the seller is asking. if not then they simply dont buy it. on clothing I always ask less unless its brand new then I sell it as such , I think alot of sellers pretty much do the same things with there clothing shoes etc. but as far as dolls go it really depends whats been done on the doll or what items may come with the doll etc etc etc

 

^ This is an excellent point and pretty much reflects my own opinion on this topic. Good show, tigerbaby! Also, with regards to price policing, I agree with many others here: The seller has the right to decide the price and what it entails, but the market is what makes the final decision.

 

I call that doll renting. People who wants to touch, see, try a doll but can't afford to buy it. So they buy it to play with it, add a little something and resell way to high. There's a guy on ebay selling a nude Sabik for 930$ + 80$ shipping, I sent him some hate mail!
In any domain, when you own something it's value is diminished, even if it's not even open, because when you buy from a store, you pay for a warranty, for customer service, for their selection, for the risk that they are taking ordering in bulk an item that might not sell, for knowing that nothing can't go wrong. These are all small things that are included into the price without being listed. When you buy from someone, if the hands break in shipping that person can't send you replacement... of if that person disappear out of the blue, there's nothing you can do either, that also should diminished the price of an item.

 

I actually find this a little appalling. Are you proud of sending this person hate mail over the price he decided to try and sell his Sabik? Hate mail is harassment. This person has every right to decide whatever selling price he chooses. If the market decides it's too much, he'll lower it. If someone comes along and decides it's worth the price, good for him! If you don't like the price, don't buy. I believe harassing a seller about prices is in exceptionally poor taste. Just because you don't believe it to be the right price doesn't entitle you to lash out at someone.

In this hobby, dolls don't immediately decrease in value as soon as they are purchased. Whether they increase or decrease in value is dependent on things like customizations and availability. A limited, hard to find doll or a doll with a faceup by a well-known artist will increase their value beyond what was paid for them. That's just the nature of this hobby. In fact, it's common with every hobby I've ever encountered.

With regards to "doll renting" I don't doubt that people buy limited’s with the intent of investment and then sell them when their value is higher. I do believe, however, that they still have as much of a right to buy and sell that doll as anyone else. Whether or not they 'love or value a doll enough' should not exclude them from the right to buy and sell. I'm pretty sure there's another thread around here about BJDs as investments.

You have a right to disagree with the behavior of someone who buys to "try a doll" or to make an investment - but it doesn't mean that their actions are wrong and warrant harassment or discrimination. This is a free market - people have the right to buy what they want for whatever reason they want and then sell for whatever they think they can get.

I'm still amazed you actually sent someone hate mail for something you have no right to control.

 

Do be careful what you brag about, just in case you're thinking about taking this "crusade" of yours into the DOA Marketplace:

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187247

"11. No price policing. Sellers are free to set the prices on their items; heckling sellers over prices is not permitted. Questions about the source or condition of the item are fine, as are questions about what is included for the price."​

Price-policing is a despicable habit to get into, so don't get too used to it. eBay might not care if you harass their sellers so crassly, but around here you can't tell people how much they should charge.
(More basically, it also doesn't reflect well on your ethics or make people want to do business with you.)

 

I didn't actually send hate mail, I thought the humor was obvious. But I did sent him a calculation which proves that he's selling the " no waiting time " for 220$. Considering that the person had 3 feedback as a seller, I also ask him how much of the security from buying from the store should be taken out of his price...
I've been shopping for a Sabik for months (have one layaway right now) and I have to admit that it slightly upset me to see him a button click away... but for a ridiculous price!

There is definitly some business to be done in the doll hobby and this includes buy and re-selling limited editions. What I was talking about is people who will delibaratly buy a doll to add their face to their collection and re-sell it later trying not to lose a dime. Comparing the doll hobby to any other (being a business owner I DO know what I'm talking about here) if you buy a "well available" product and re-sell it, it's price should be off, at least, 10% just for owning it. What do you think is the price you can put on
- The selection that a store can offer
- Their costumer service
- The security : to know you're getting a fresh new item, that you can take actions if you don't receive it, that your doll is gonna be carefully packaged, that they're not gonna close tomorrow and never send you your doll....
- The warranty : if a peice is broken they will replace it, if it's lost in the mail they will replace it, if it's damaged they will replace it ....
These are things that aren't listed in prices but still cost money to the company!

 

I didn't send hatemail, I guess the humoristic tone of voice I type this is only existant in my head . What I did is send him a letter showing him that his item was 220$ overpriced.
And I am very well aware of the marketplace rules, thank you.

 

Maiko_Star

Well I'm sure more people who read your post thought you DID send hatemail to that person, as you said that you did. There was no 'lolz' or emoticon smiley to sway us otherwise. You also seemed quite angry about the situation, so maybe you should be more careful when 'joking' about sending hatemail.

Also, people can sell their dolls at whatever price they want. Dolls aren't like new cars. As a business owner and adult, I'm sure you know how it is when you purchase a new car and drive it off the lot. You lose about 20% off what you paid for it, right? Maybe you are new to the hobby, but it doesn't really always work like that with dolls. More often than not, I have seen people be able to make the money they spent RIGHT back. I mean, I'd rather pay an extra $75 to buy a second hand doll that is two states away than pay $75 less and wait forever and a day. That's just me.

You also have to keep in mind that 1.) That person might be a member here, and exploiting them like you are because you don't agree with their pricing isn't really kind of you. They can ask what they want for it, the doll may have a lot of sentimental value. Do you expect people to sell things at EXACTLY what they paid for them? Hahaha, of course not! I mean, if you were selling something limited and dear to you, I guarantee that you wouldn't mind making some extra money if someone was willing to pay it! My #2.) to keep in mind is that something may have come up with this person and that may be the money that they NEED. I'd feel really bad if I was pissing and moaning and pining over someone's pricing when I find out that they had an expensive medical bill our their car broke down.

No one's forcing you to pay that price. You have apparantly found another doll in your price range. You can let it go now.

 

I think a point was made in the Elitism thread on how important it is to be clear in typing and to try and avoid sarcasm since it can be easily misinterpreted.

I honestly still believe that sending a person a message saying that their product is overpriced by 'x' amount and that they should reduce it to account for 'x', 'x', and 'x' is rude and, frankly, a little pretentious. Since when are you the one that determines the value of a doll? Are you basing this amount on the price of the Sabik you bought and personally determined was a reasonable amount? You don't know yet whether the Sabik in question is overpriced until someone buys it. If someone does end up buying it, well, guess what - it was a good price even though it may have been out of reach for you. When buying pre-released limiteds, sometimes you get a good price and sometimes you don't. Once you buy one, you never know whether the next will sell for less or more than you paid.

As far as feedback goes, how often a person has sold previously does not influence the cost of the doll itself. The value of a doll remains the same whether a person has never sold before or has sold plenty. The reason that a buyer may choose seller A with lots of feedback over seller B with little feedback will probably be because they feel more secure. However, another buyer may decide that choosing seller B is worth the risk to get the doll. It's a matter of buyer beware and has nothing to do with the value of the doll itself.

The second-hand market is very informal. Often times sellers are individual people with a limited amount of items. Comparing the second-hand market to the retail market is an uneven comparison with uneven expectations. Big stores may have their prices valued on selection, customer service, security and warranty, but the criteria for evaluating doll prices in the second-hand market are entirely different. Second-hand prices for dolls are valued on such things as availability, rarity, demand, whether or not it's complete, alterations made and the popularity of such alterations. These values are what determine the price that people can expect to sell their dolls, and whether or not that price will allow them to recoup such costs like shipping and customs fees.

 

When I am pricing a doll to sell, I do take shipping into account, since I aim to recoup my costs as much as possible. However . . it really depends on the doll and the company. If it is a standard doll I basically price it so it will cost the buyer around the same as buying from the company, overall. As for limited dolls though I will price them to recover all of my costs if the market will bear it. When I buy a limited on the secondary market I don't expect the luxury of being able to pay exact retail plus shipping to me only. So why would I sell one that way? And I certainly don't like the idea of "doll renting". It just can be hard to tell what a limited looks like IRL when all you have to go by when buying is glossy company promo pics!

I am surprised by how relatively few people seem to care about wait times; maybe I am just impatient. So many companies have long waits these days but marketplace sellers have the doll in hand so you may not save money but you may save time! Example: Company A takes 8 weeks to ship their dolls. There is someone on the marketplace in the same country as you selling a doll from company A for the retail cost including an extra $40 to cover their shipping costs. So if you buy from the marketplace seller, you pay a little more -- but you will probably get your doll 7 weeks faster.

Ultimately sellers can charge whatever they want. And buyers can choose to buy from them or not.

 

Should Second-Hand Buyers pay back YOUR shipping?

erm.. What do you mean - MY shipping? it's DOLL'S shipping - and as it was rightly said here, it's part of the doll's price. I can bring price down because of wear and tear, but I surely add to it shipping price. Otherwise doll's shipping will be a gift to the person who buys. And really, I'm not prepared to give 50-140$ gift to total stranger just because (s)he buys a doll from me.

 

No, it is YOUR shipping. If you buy a doll direct from the company (or another seller) you pay the price of the doll + shipping to you. If I then buy the doll from you, I am going to be paying for my own shipping, which is often just as much as the original shipping costs that you would have paid. Why should I pay for your costs as well as my own? The shipping costs are NOT part of the value of the doll...that's why shipping and handling fees are added at the end of the transaction. If it was part of a doll's value, it would be right up there on the sales page as one total price, but it isn't.

While you're at it, heck, why not throw in your customs fees too, cos I'll have to pay my own when the time comes as well

 

Jescissa,
well, I see why we're in disagreement here ))) You'll see it easily too if you look not only in post, but left of it - to profile.
I'm from Russia. It's last EMS zone for some companies and next-to-last in all others. Shipment fees are really HUGE - sometimes they go up almost to half of a doll, especially from China. On the contrary, internal shipment is rather cheap... and moreover, most people buying secondhand dolls live in the same or next town and all is done without post altogether. And usually it's too much bother to sell from here to other countries.
Of course it may be different if buyer-to-buyer shipping costs more than company-to buyer. But here it is quite the opposite and I can't have any opinion on situation I never seen - only on what I know.
Here it looks like this: I paid not only for doll, I paid a lot of money to bring the doll to my country. And if it stays inside - that price stays too. As i said, I'm not ready to do it as a gift to complete stranger. (S)he anyways got it cheaper because doll is not new... or (s)he is free to buy new for full price and shipment at the company.
(All of above goes as what-if, I haven't sell any dolls of mine and not going too... but I've looked to some second-hand dolls on internal market AND think it's fully justified that price of shipment was included. Here it really is so. Moreover, what I wanted to say with my previous comment is that the answer here VERY much depends on circumstances. If I paid, say, 20$ for shipment, it would be hardly worth mentioning.)