Sock dresses and the anger they seem to generate.

Lol im so guilty of this.. or rather.. sometimes my dolls dont even get sock dresses--They mostly lounge around naked... and do I care? not really lol I mean, i want them to look nice but i dont have the time to sew clothes as soon as they arrive and i definately dont want to spend 100's of dollars on more clothes. Really, I think its great that some people do have expensive dolls with expensive wardrobes but to me, the clothes dont effect the way i interact with my doll. I still love them, i still take them out and photograph them, i still cuddle them and play with them. so to me, the clothes arent a priority. Therefore I totally understand when clothes arent a big priority for other collectors either, we all come from different backgrounds and its easier to save up for a doll for some people than others
I keep hearing the argument that there is no point in buying an expensive doll if its just going to sit around in cheap clothes all day looking tacky... but really it doesnt matter what other people think because that doll is there in its tacky clothes making ME happy.

 

Whoa whoa whoa... I'm not here to judge one person at all..... I think Praesagium is JUST as entitled to their own opinion as any of the rest of us, regardless of how it comes across. So don't think I am judging any one person or any one group of people at all. Because that's not my intention. I seriously just want a discussion and yes, some people are getting quite defensive - and honestly, I'm not sure why. I'm not really very strong feeling towards the actual sock-dress either way. Whatever makes people happy. but as someone said a little bit ago - we are acting as if this is some HUGE world issue.

Socks cost like... $1.

Forum full of great posts, pictures, discussions, debates, and wonderful people and yet a large group (myself included) of people are heavily invested in a post about something that we could buy with pocket change on any given day. Wow.

Unless I get directed attacked, I'm out of this thread. I love you all. I hope everyone has more discussion but I simply feel as if anything else I say will be off topic. I'm attempting to be mature enough to know when to walk away.

Goodbye!

 

Yes, I agree. The people who are saying "but the analogies don't hold" should think for a second. He obviously was using artful and absurd exaggeration to make a point about the *underlying attitude* displayed by some of the posts here.

"Sarcasm is lost on you, Pinky."-- The Brain

 

I have seen gorgeous dolls dressed in nothing more than clever cling-wrap. I've seen hideous dolls in expensive OOAK outfits from Japan. And I've seen dolls in socks -- some that were beautiful, and some that weren't. The one thing all of the "nice" dolls had in common? The owners took good care of their dolls and arranged their clothing well, even if they only had that dreaded sock to work with. A sock doesn't have to look like a sock, after all.

From what I have seen, when most people use the phrase "sock dress" in a negative manner, they are referring to those outfits that aren't -- and were never intended to be -- well thought-out or even attractive. Outfits that show little care at all. It's not about the cost, the material, or about the privilege level of the owner. Anyone can take the time to think through the arrangement of a sock, or a scarf, or cloth napkin, or whatever, to a doll's best advantage.

The lady who shows up at a meet with a doll in a tube dress, with HANES blazoned across the center, the "heel" part bunching up at the waist, and dangling strings from where she used a dull pair of scissors to snip off the top and bottom? She has an ugly sock dress. But that's all there is to it. I don't think she's a bad person for it. I don't think her doll is inferior to mine because of it. I don't think I'm a superior person as a result. It's just that... I don't like that sock dress. I think it's hideous. I note it in my head, and then forget about it, because saying something would be pointless and rude.

That's all there is to it.

It's really not that big of a deal, is it?

 

I snorted soda through my nose reading that.......(ow.) *lol*

anyways, I have no aversion to sock dresses, most of them will look pretty if an owner puts a bit of effort into it. Uhm... My girl has a "Little black Dress" made from the cut off end of foot-less tights, That's only becuase she didn't have any other clothing at the time.

I don't' judge a person if their newly arrived Doll is dressed in a sock dress, who knows perhaps they will be buying other clothing or sewing together clothing for their new doll in the future.
The only thing that makes me frown is if that sock is dirty and used, but luckily I've never seen that yet.

For sock lovers, I applaud you for your resourcefulness in a time when the economy is tight.

As for Sock-haters:................well, we all have our own opinions.

 

Totaly the thing I was about to add to this discussion. Ive seen 'ugly' dolls (imo of course) that was wearing expensive clothings. Its doesnt change that they are still ugly for me. And I have seen really pretty dolls wearing beginner sewing clothes and they were still really pretty. When I take a look at dolls pictures I see theyre faces before theyre clothings, so if a doll is wearing socks I won't even notice it first.

Imo again. What I see first is the beauty of the mold and the makeup and then after there is the clothing.

 

I think you've said all I wanted to say better than how I could say it, so I'll just add a +1 to this.

 

This is probably the big difference between the two camps here. I think elaborate doll clothing makes the doll more charming and gives it more personality. So, I do put a lot of emphasis on clothes. To me, a sock dress just won't give the doll the personality he needs. Some people think the doll itself gives it the personality it needs.

 

Whoa! That's a mighty big assumption, and one I wouldn't make at all -- sometimes friends do just want to help each other out. That's happened amongst people that I'm friends with and it's all quite innocent. Yes there are people out there that when money of any type gets involved can be trouble, but there's just as many people who really do just want to help someone out. And again, clothing doesn't even take large sums of money. I'm not quite getting what you seem to be getting from her(?) posts.

It doesn't have to match both dictionary definitions -- one is enough. Besides, think about it objectively for a moment. BJDs may not be hugely expensive to someone with a higher income level/lower bills just as a very expensive sports car may be easily affordable to some folks. That's always going to vary, but at the same time, they aren't really cheap either. The are also not necessities. Your own experience being able to afford them does not negate their luxury item status.

You may not like the argument about being able to buy clothes if you were able to save up for the doll, but there's some truth to it too. If you bought the doll you either have the income, or have the tenacity to save till you were able to afford it. When you then factor in that you can get decent clothes for a fraction of a cost of a doll -- you do the math. Now if you're saving and it's going to take a bit, that's where quick make due clothing like the dreaded sock dress comes in handy and makes sense, but there shouldn't be any reason that someone can't come up with one decent outfit for their doll if they able to buy the doll in the first place. At some point choice and preference comes into play rather than a long term inability to dress them in other clothing. If this issue was really about people picking on financially stressed folks, I would be royally pissed -- but this is a taste/preference/choice issue rather than one of necessities unless you're talking about short term sock usage (I seriously can't believe we have 11 pages on socks LOL).

I would be diagnosed with sock apathy more than anything else -- I don't really care all that much. It's just that some of the reasoning being used to defend the socks doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If someone wants to dress their doll in cut up footwear, they certainly can, but I would rather people just own it in that case rather than coming up with reasons that don't have a lot to do with the reality of the hobby.

 

Indeed it does x3 Hence why I didn't want to continue on that subject since it is off topic. But I agree, that's why I would never comment or directly insult someone's art ability when it comes to their doll. ^^;

 

Yes, I've never really understood why that is. Never had that experience in the vintage doll community, for instance, and it is something that surprised and distressed me in this one. Until I realized- some people just like confrontation, and if you don't, then don't read the "discussion" threads. Normally I don't- but I was really bored yesterday, lol I tend to stick to specific doll threads because they tend to be positive and supportive.

 

I know I said I was done, but I *was* mentioned again.

^__^ I agree with you Taco. I honestly do. Thanks for not being mean. You worded your counterpoint very well.

 

Maybe it's an 'art' thing? Like, people get angry that you think their art (sock dress) is crummy, and low quality/lazy work, and they get up in your business because of it?

I have seen some strange pieces hanging in galleries that I just didn't understand what made them special. I could've made some of what I saw last weekend, for instance. I also see a lot of runway fashions that make me wonder why the designer is famous, or who (aside from Lady Gaga) would wear it.

So, I guess if someone were to tell a BJD owner - who might have put work into other parts of the doll - that some part of their expensive doll is sloppy, maybe that might irritate them? But at the same time, it's still up to the owner to think about what is being said, and not to lash out at other's opinions.

If you're going to be that sensitive about a sock dress, you might as well not post your pics for fear someone out there isn't going to like them. You have to be willing to hear different opinions, because art is subjective.

 

Oh man! This forum never, ever changes!!!

Don't call us out for being 'elitists' cuz that's just rude!

 

As opposed to the "You're not allowed to dislike things, or you are an elitist jerk" half of the forum? And no, I'm not just talking about any single thread. I see this mentality a lot here. I never seen so many people so afraid that people don't like the exact same thing they do. In some of the other forums I frequent, people will just outright tell you all the time that (in their opinion, of course) "X" thing about you (your art, your bjds, your sock dresses) outright suck.

I like how this forum isn't as harsh as some others. But in some ways, I think it's not as honest either. Maybe it's just my experiences, but I don't like "protective bubbles" people put around themselves where if you don't like something, you're not allowed to even whisper it on some other thread half-way across the forum. Sure, say you disagree with the "elitist sock dress haters", but as long as people aren't harassing sock dress gallery threads, I don't think there is any problem with complaining about this fashion.

I'll keep to the standards of DOA when I post here, but I just think that people put themselves out there in the public (like posting sock dresses on a public website), they can't always expect people are going to be nice. Same for the other way around. I guess, I'm one of those "elitists" because I don't like sock dresses. Oh well, I've certainly been called worst.

 

It's amazing how heated the discussion can get when you're talking about sock dresses. 11 pages of sock dress love, hate, and apathy has inspired me to cut the toes off a couple socks and stick something classy in the gallery.

Warning: Ugly sock dresses ahead

Personally I think my dolls look beautiful, even in a crappy old sock, but if you don't it's not something I'd argue about. It's not like I fix them up so they'll look good to random people on the internet; they just have to look good to me.

 

Exactly! If I don't like a picture I'm not going to harrass someone, I'm going to step away. I'm not THAT important.

It's like Lizzard said. Sockdresses can be beautiful when someone puts thought into it. Most of the 'negative' sock dresses lack that. I don't think those owners are less than me. I usually think that they either:
1. don't care, or
2 don't know what their pictures are conveying.

Either way, I forget about them. It's not like I keep a list in the back of my mind of all the owners who, at one point, made a decission I wouldn't have. There are more important things in life.

He contradicted himself by writing his post, because everything he wrote there was judgemental. Apparently he believed that everyone who didn't like to see (the bad kind of) sockdresses, were looking down on the owners. Most - if not all - of us don't.

TrevviesBaby it's fantastic that to you they aren't luxury items, but the fact is that they ARE. You don´t need them to live. Just like you don´t need a TV, a radio, or a PS3 to survive, these dolls do not contribute to a longer lifespam.

I don't think so. Speaking as a professional artist, most of us are very well capable of getting critique even if it isn't what we wanted to hear. It comes with the territory.

Personally I think it is more a tendency of today's world. Call it the 'me-generation'. Nowadays many people tend to overreact over relatively small things. It is as if we no longer accept any form of 'negative' feedback about ourselves. And at the same time we want everybody to know who we are, what we've been through and want a pat on our back for it. (I mean, there is a reason tv-shows like dr.Phil and Oprah are so incredibly popular)

The other side of the coin is that we no longer give polite opinions, but want to be as bold as possible in an attempt to get praise for daring to be so mean, cruel and edgy.
15 minutes of fame, without having to work your butt off for it.

 

You've all seen the winning, by definition, 'sock dress' of the contest DoA held called Sock couture (or something to that effect) yeah? Really you can make something amazing out of anything.

I think people who are saying "If you cant afford doll clothes you shouldn't have a doll at all" are ridiculous! Not all of everyone is in good financial situations NOW but were when we got into the hobby.

At the end of the day fabric is fabric and not all of us are blessed by the sewing fairy nor are we blessed by the money fairy. Even when I DID have money I could never justify spending $20-40 posting for a a pair of doll trousers.

Sometimes I think people on here dont live on the real world. XD Getting all worked up about SOCKS!

 

The only sock dresses or outfits I can recall are pretty awesome. It was from that one DOA contest. I don't recall seeing any badly made ones, but then again I could care less.

In fact, I have a dress made from the sleeve of a shirt. It was supposed to be a substitute until I could find something else fitting to the look. But I have not found anything I like better than it. From that I have a couple doll dresses, and a shirt that I still wear ;-P

 

Wait, seriously? So people can't give their generic opinions without going five steps ahead to see what someone else is going to misread in self-conscious paranoia?

But... this is a "whatever" topic. We're not talking about stem-cell research or abortion or the war in Iraq. We're talking about whether or not we like sock dresses, which are pretty much the least important thing on the internet.

This. It's okay if we don't all like the same things.

You are not your dolls. Even if someone says "Your doll is ugly," they are not saying you are ugly. If someone says they don't like sock dresses, they're not saying that they don't like you. I think people would feel a little better if they would realize that their resin is being judged on its beauty or uniqueness because that's all that can be observed.... but as owners, they have personality and other redeeming traits and a limitless potential for just about anything.