Sock dresses and the anger they seem to generate.

Then you need to stick to what was actually explicitly said, and not invent offenses that just happen to fit between the lines. That's where all this hysteria is stemming from.

 

I'm going to be a little more serious than I have been...

I've never followed a thread this far on DoA, and it's given me all sorts of laughs and snarky ideas. But at the same time, I'm sometimes a little... well, insulted by the idea that if I can't afford the bells and whistles and accessories of my dolls, then I shouldn't be in the hobby.

I may be oversensitive about things like this (actually, I probably am, but yay! discussion), but I can't help but resent the implication that dolls should be for people in a higher income bracket. I can't always afford to spend even $35 for doll clothing, and for me, that isn't cheap. Especially for a luxury item hanging out in my spare bedroom. I'm just darn fortunate that my girlfriend loves to sew, otherwise my dolls would be naked most of the time.

And because I can't end it with something that serious in this thread, I got back from the sock store yesterday, with loads of new material for all sorts of cute clothes for my girl. She's so spoiled...

 

I love that the awesome power of socks has generated so much discussion and giggles in one swoop That being said, my opinion would be:

- Do you have an aversion to sock dresses?
No. I think its a start of a long, fun process of bonding with your doll. Some of my favorite pictures were of my bald, first doll wearing only a hankie and the "temporary" cloak I made him. His silly cloak is now his wardrobe staple.

- Do you think it makes a doll less of a doll when it doesn't have what the average owner calls proper clothing?
Not at all. I sometimes won't post pics of my dolls because I am intimidated by what others will simply think of my crappy flash photos and cheap clothes even though I put a LOT of personal effort into my dolls (and not one sock has been involved). I'm really shy though, so it's my personal problem NOT necessarily the attitudes of others. From an artistic stand point, yes the better clothes/face-up/camera skill make for the more appealing pictures. But I think no owner should feel intimidated to post pictures of the doll they love because their doll lacks "quality". That's why I love the Gallery+ and normal Gallery! If I want exceptional work, I go to the Gallery+. If I want the community aspect and SOCKS!!!!!, I go to the other gallery.

- Do you think less of the owner when they choose to either have a temporary sock dress or a permanent sock dress?
Just as a starter, I think it's fine. The joys I find in the hobby come from constantly growing with your doll and their style, so eventually, you should upgrade from a sock dress. But I also can relate to personal style/taste you have for your doll. Some of the outfits my dolls wear are supposed to be shabby looking. So if you like the way your doll looks in a sock, keep it!

- Let me now how you feel about sock dresses in general.
Just love/enjoy your doll and don't give a hoot otherwise. In fact, I need to take a group photo soon... I think for the occasion I'll have them all wear socks!

 

So far in 12 pages of thread, only one person has said anything like "if you can't afford clothes for your doll maybe this isn't the hobby for you." The vast majority of nay-sayers (myself included) are simply saying "why use such a bad looking cop-out? Put some effort in!" Also I haven't heard anyone say "anything made from socks is automatically crap that's beneath my notice" if the end result looks good, no one cares that it's made of a sock. A sock that's simply had the toe cut off and the doll shoved in doesn't look good.

As for implying that only those of higher income brackets should have dolls, no one is saying that. Making your own doll clothes is very cheap (cheaper to buy fabric than to buy socks actually) and there are a ton of tutorials out there from super-easy ones meant for those who have never touched a sewing needle in their lives to advanced finishing and pattern making. You could get two $.50 fabric remnants and make your doll a shirt and pants for $1 or a dress for $.50 and have the free tutorials available to make something good even if you have no knowledge of sewing. Why wouldn't you use these awesome resources? Why buy such an expensive doll and dress it worse than a dollar store knock-off barbie? That would be like buying a beautiful mansion and letting the grass grow 6 feet tall because you'd have to pay the neighborhood kids $20 to mow it or spend an hour mowing it yourself. It's just a waste.

Even for those who absolutely HATE sewing or would never want to try, and don't want to spend any money to get their doll clothes (I don't see WHY but...) there are people on the forums giving away clothes for free. You could even find something you are good at like doll portraits or jewelry or weapons and do a trade with a seamstress for clothes. I see no reason to ever have a doll in a toe-cut sock.

 

Aside from the fact that anything that's not a necessity of life is a luxury regarless of the cost - These two examples only work if you're flying first class (or buying the largest and newest of televisions) and comparing that to buying the cheapest of tinies. I've certainly flown internationally for less than some of the Volks LEs on the Marketplace here. And honestly, I've flown nationally during sales times for about the same price as a BBB tiny - the costs aren't out of line with each other at all.

 

^^ I agree with this.

As an anti-sock dress person, and fellow BJD owner, I have no income of my own. I think this hobby isn't about whether you can afford clothes from companies A, B, or C that cost a certain amount.

If anyone has read my posts around this forum, they'd know I'd gotten lucky this summer, and along with reserved gas money and change, I saved up for my first $347 doll - every penny, I saved up for by myself, because my parents thought a $300 doll was totally outrageous.

And this hobby is a little bit based on financial suffering for most of us. Of course, I do envy those who impulse buy dolls (I'm impulsive myself), because I know there's no way in hell I can do that - and get away with it. Most people have to wait - wait to buy, wait to own. And I can understand wanting to save a little money on finding a way to clothe our dolls for cheap. I wondered if I should order my doll, without clothes, and buy them - or sew them - later on. Well life gets in the way, and there has been no time for sewing since late this summer. So I can understand keeping them at least in a sock dress until something better comes along. Plus, not all outfits are $35. You'd be amazed at what you can find out there.

I feel bad that people think there's an air of superiority in the forums, based on how much your doll cost, or what you put into getting them the way they are now. I've never felt bad about Emma - basic face-up, one dress, one pair of shoes, the same wig from the company shots - I wanted the doll in the photographs, and that's what I got.

I didn't mod her at all - no sanding, no body blushing (not yet, anyway), no piercing, no face up by me - none of it. It was what I wanted, and I've said this countless times, and absolutely no one has said anything to make me feel inferior about what I've done with her. She was out of the box, and ready to go!

I also have to reiterate that you aren't your dolls. But at the same time, I still think it's an artist-thing (for some people). Lots of artists can take the heat and pressure, but some can't. Don't be afraid to post pics of your dolls in sock dresses, even when lots of people don't like sock dresses.

I'm not particularly fond of dreadlocks on dolls, for instance, but I don't care what you do. A doll is more than their sock dress, or their dreads. I'm not going to degrade myself, and troll DoA, posting on everyone's gallery post that I don't like certain parts of your doll. If I even go to the gallery thread (which I don't most of the time, because it doesn't interest me) and I see a doll wearing something I'm not fond of, I'm not going to say anything about it, simply because it's not my place.

A lot of people here are going by the rule "If you don't have something good to say, don't say anything at all." This whole thread was about if you like sock dresses or not, and those of use who don't are somehow offending people who do. If you didn't want to know that someone didn't like sock dresses, why did you come to this thread? I'm sure we all knew what we were getting into.

 

I don't know. I've been a working artist for over 30 years, had artwork in galleries and museums across the country, won numerous awards, etc., and the only people I have ever encountered who would come right out and say something like that (the familiar "my kid could do that".- Guess what, dude, he couldn't.) to an artist are usually pretty ignorant about art in general. I live in a community of artists, have not only had my own exhibits, but have hung numerous exhibits of other artists' works at galleries and art centers, and I literally have never heard another artist be less than supportive to another artist.
It isn't that they won't offer criticism, but "constructive" criticism is the key. Telling someone their artwork is ugly or they are lazy for not doing better or trying harder, I honestly have never heard that said.
Because I am an artist, I can't tell you how many people have hauled out snapshots of their, or their kid's, aunt's, whoever's paintings to show me. Some of them have been really, really horrible and it is clear they have no talent or no taste. But they are happy and proud of it. I would never say to them, "You know, your painting really sucks. It is unimaginative, derivative, and poorly executed. Go take some drawing lessons and learn some technique."
They are obviously involved in the art world in a way different from how I am, and I temper my comments accordingly. They aren't going to be seeking gallery representation or placement in museum shows, they are doing it because they enjoy it. Why should I take that away from them?
I also have friends who do artwork I really don't care for, who have it in galleries I wouldn't step foot into, but I would never say anything negative because they are sincere in their efforts and they have found an audience.
If someone is seriously interested in being an artist and asks for my opinion (like people do in the critiques thread here), then I will give them an honest opinion of how they might improve, things to think about, etc. But I would never just say- "Hey man, forget it, you suck."

I think I probably feel differently because I'm older (56) and have never been part of an online art community, like DA.

So I guess it's one reason why the whole "your doll is ugly and dresses weird" thing puzzles me. If people are happy with their doll, bad face-up and ratty wig and sock dress, then I'm happy for them., just as if someone has finally gotten that limited fullset they have been drooling over, I can enjoy their happiness and excitement as well. Those two doll owners obviously are approaching the hobby from different directions, but if they are enjoying themselves, great!

It's almost a Velveteen Rabbit thing- the important thing is that the doll is loved by its owner.

 

Thanks to the gallery here I now know what a sock dress even IS, and I must say, I think it's a rather cute and innovative solution for a first covering!
Like you swaddle a new baby in some leftover linens Just, endearing in a way .........

 

I think, for those who are so amused/bemused/startled by the intensity of this thread, that part of it is that the elitist snob! issue keeps coming up EVERYWHERE.

Just as it's not right to look down on someone for not having the money to buy expensive brand name doll clothes, it's not right to make comments about people who buy Dollheart or what have you. There's a weird dichotomy, especially in North American culture, of both paying a lot of attention to those with more money, wanting to be them, or using them as scapegoats, sneering at them, etc. Having less OR more money or owning less or more expensive things than other people does not make you inherently wiser/kinder/smarter/better/more creative/more skilled/more talented.

Anybody who's going around flaming or being nasty to people's faces about any aspect of their doll we can write off as a useful human being to associate with in our hobby time. However, someone stating they don't like sock dresses in a thread/conversation not directed at any individual or even individual doll? Not the same thing.

 

Oh geez... wow, if you had that in your first post about the deal I utterly missed it. Um, kinda puts a different shade of the spectrum on the entirety! Apologies!! -- and really, I wasn't reacting so much to your particular situation as to the reactions to it.

Guilty on the charge of not reading thoroughly enough, and I do apologize! (Especially since the "not-reading" thing is something that bugs the snot out of me when someone else does it!)

I still think the "gently as she goes" idea ought to apply in more situations than it usually does these days - not just here, but everywhere. There's a reason that "the golden rule" is a cliche.

 

Nope, it wasn't. At the time I didn't think it was relevant info, but as you can see, it became relevant once you offered your counter-point. Just because I remember that situation clearly doesn't mean everyone else automatically knows everything I do about

I do want to repost the second half of my initial post, albeit edited a bit; I feel it got lost in the kerfluffle that happened as a result.


I don't like sock clothing anymore than I like pink, yellow, rhinestones, sequins, Justin Timberlake, frogs, desktop computers, plaid and Legally Blonde, but you can bet that when I go to the cinema (look at the gallery), I'm going to go see Let the Right One In (dolls that match my tastes/the sock contest entries during DoA 5th anniversary) instead of House Bunny (dolls in fuzzy Nike sports socks).

However, don't cry foul if you ask an entire theatre (DoA) on their opinion of House Bunny (sock clothing) and get mad, fling insults and call names when not everybody likes it. That's kind of silly.

That's also the funny thing about this thread: we were asked our opinions! If you wish to protect yourself from wolves, do not become a lamb. If you don't want your feelings hurt, don't ask for opinions.

 

Hey...wait a minute!!! If you are from Glitterville how can you not like rhinestones??????

As an admitted costume addict (in fact, just spent the weekend as costume mistress for a group of trainees from a world-famous classical ballet company who came here to perform), having glued and sewed on at least one million rhinestones and sequins on various rhythmic gymnastics, professional ballet and circus costumes in the past twelve years.....I confess to a complete love of sparkly things. I love rhinestones. My dolls don't generally wear them, though, unless they are part of a costume.

 

D8 Don't tell the Glitterville police!!

I actually finally gave into my personal love for rhinestones on some shirts, as long as aren't stuck on the chest or butt in the word "Angel", "Kiss" , "Juicy", etc ... However, rhinestones + skulls = !!!

My dolls tend to go in historical garb or naked though. I look like a pervert when I have no clothing for my dolls. I actually really like having them sitting about naked. The human body is so pretty!

 

I have to wonder how many of the people who have outright said "You shouldn't be in this hobby if you can't afford anything but a sock dress" have actually understood that there are people reading this topic who can't afford anything but a sock dress. People who might have fallen on hard times, or who scrimped and saved and mowed lawns and babysat to get their first doll.

In effect, those people just told the "have-nots" "You are not good enough/rich enough" to be in our club.

Wow.

Way to be welcoming to the hobby, Heathers.

 

I quite agree! I couldn't afford to clothe my dolls if I didn't know how to turn fabric scraps into something more and not everyone can sew! As in any hobby there are people in different places in their lives who have different realities. Also, just as in any hobby, there are those who are very interested in participating who wait on the sidelines for months or years till they get the chance to finally join. Their devotion to the hobby isn't any less simply because they could not afford to rush out and buy a doll the moment they fell in love. On the contrary, saving up and squirreling away funds gives them a great appreciation for the doll they finally purchase.

That is not to say that those who have the funds on hand and purchase their dolls right away do not have a sincere devotion either. As I said reality is different for everyone, but one should not complain about someone saving up for months to buy a doll that they then have to dress in sock dresses due to a lack of funds. Besides sock dresses can be cute.

For those lucky enough to have spare fabric like myself, or spare change, we should count our blessings and respect those who lack the things we have.

And maybe, in a hobby that prizes unique design and personal taste, we should respect peoples fashion choices for their dolls, even if to you it is something unworthy...like a sock.

 

I love the way the thread is named! It's so funny and cutely placed. lol
It just bleeds practicality!

- Do you have an aversion to sock dresses?
You know, I never thought of it! My sister once made a beautiful, and simply embroidered dress for our barbies and the simplicity of it alone made us cherish it!

- Do you think it makes a doll less of a doll when it doesn't have what the avarage owner calls proper clothing?
A doll can still look tacky,with even the best of clothing! Paying a lot for a doll outfit seems to me like a personal goal you should want as a special occasion, not a necessity. And believe me, you get broke and need SOMETHING for them to wear.
Might as well make it comfy!


- Do you think less of the owner when they choose to either have a temporary sockdress or a permanent sock dress?
At that point I look at what the owner gives their other dolls. It could be that they just have eccentric tastes. Or, it could be that they favor a doll over another, and with that I have the problem.

I know that every owner probably has their favorite, but I do not like seeing neglect for anything, especially something that someone else would love to have. But in the end it's not my place to judge because I'm sure I don't know the full story.

- Let me now how you feel about sock dresses in general.
I really am pretty neutral about them, and after this thread want to see some. lol

Hope this helps!

 

instead, i see people's saying 'if you cant give the basic maintainance of a lamborghini, then why force your self for getting one?'

 

I've got to agree with cirquemom on a few things. I'm also a professional artist and I know better than to spout opinions on what art is good and what isn't. Everyone has opinions... but they aren't always things that need to be aired in public! Constructive Criticism is always about how to help someone out, not cutting them down... and opinions have pretty much nothing to do with it... something may not be working as well as it could be, or may be fixed, is different than saying "I don't like that kind of stuff."

Age, I hope, might also help. If people our age are STILL caring so much about what OTHER people's dolls are wearing, we still need to grow up some!

And it's also fair to say that some people are getting upset for very little reason. Yeah, there are some people out there who are not very nice or friendly or civil or polite... But they are the minority. I think if there were a poll with actual numbers, those saying that "people with not enough money shouldn't be in the hobby" or that " I think your taste in proper doll clothes sucks" are very, very few in number.

So--forget about the people who might hate your sock dresses... there may only be one or two who will ever get a chance to see your doll, much less tell you to your face and make you feel miserable. MOST people will be nice and polite and many will actually think your sock dresses are just wonderful!

 

Yes, yes, yes. And to that I will add that anybody who has ever reached a professional level in the arts a) most assuredly didn't start out at that level, and b) had one or more kind and nurturing allies who knew just how and when to praise, just how and when to critique, and just how and when to diplomatically say "My! That's a picture/story/dress!"

Clorista wisely wrote: As in any hobby there are people in different places in their lives who have different realities. Also, just as in any hobby, there are those who are very interested in participating who wait on the sidelines for months or years till they get the chance to finally join.

Yes, yes, yes again.

A little kindness goes a long way. We all start out beginners in life.

And now I have been far too serious in a debate I have enjoyed for its liveliness, (general) good nature, and sense of humor.

 

^^ Love your idea! And I agree. It's like when other women ask their boyfriends if they look fat in something: there is no right answer, really:

No = lies!
Yes = how dare you?!

If you plan to dress your doll in a basic sock dress, I don't have to like it, but you don't have to care. I have never seen someone attack someone's gallery thread because their doll's in a sock dress.

I'm not calling you stupid or dumb... I just don't like sock dresses.

Let's get something straight here, since I've said it before - but am neither the first or last to say it - anyone can do what they want. We have to respect that some people can't get outfits for their dolls right away. And we also have to agree to something else:

Dolls =/= actual kids

I think we can all agree that kids need clothes. Dolls aren't actual people, so it's understandable that a doll might have to go without certain human elements (like clothes) for a while. No one can go and complain that your doll's naked, nor can someone really say that just because your doll isn't dressed, means you shouldn't have a doll. It's not 'doll cruelty' to me if your resinite is bare for all to see.

I don't think that's fair. Should hobbiests who have dolls be setting standards for who qualifies to get one? It upsets me that sometimes people feel that they, or their doll, isn't good enough because they didn't do XYZ.

"If you can't afford X, you shouldn't have a doll..." Sure, some of us can consider ourselves 'hardcore' BJD hobbyists, but most people want others to appreciate their dolls, (as well as convert some), and I don't think we're doing the hobby a favor by dictating who qualifies.

I didn't want to wait any longer to get a pair of pants and a shirt (should have, though!), so I bought a dress for my doll, and it's a pain! It keeps riding up her, and it's annoying when you try to take pics because her underwear is ALWAYS on show! But I blame myself. I'd suggest getting something that isn't going to ride up, if you can help it.