Sock dresses and the anger they seem to generate.

Well said!! I agree 100%!

 

I want to THANK y'ALL for making my day!! I very seldom LOL while sitting at the 'puter...but I'm doing so now. Oh, the hilarity of it all! SIXTEEN PAGES!! On SOCKS!!! And I've even added to my quirky pool of DOA vocabulary...'sock people' 'sockness', 'sock issues'....!!! (snerk!) really, I have to stop, and go back and click on that Powerpoint window and get back to work. But the pull of the socks is strong....

Seriously, though, if you want to dress your doll in a sock, go nuts. It's your doll. Personally, I find the threads posted by newbies, especially the younger ones, with their not-yet-faceupped dolls wrapped in hankies or, yes, socks, to be quite charming.... the love these folks have for the doll they saved months or years for really shines through. And that's what matters here, how much you love your doll and how much joy he /she brings you, whether she's wrapped in a ratty old sock or garbed head to toe in BTSSB regalia.

 

I actually like the idea of making clothes out of something that's already been used or that will not be used for it's original purpose for one reason or another. In modern eco-speak, I like repurposing. And, I have made a dress out of a sock (and a used napkin!) (see thread at http://www.denofangels.com/forums/s...Dress-for-Your-Yo-SD-with-a-Sock-and-a-Napkin ) for my contribution to the sock wearing dolls. I don't have much time right now for sewing doll clothes, but I have saved old shirts, slacks and other things for making doll clothes. Socks are just one of the many items that can have new life beyond the foot before ending in a landfill. Sock it to me and SOCK ON!!!

 

- Do you have an aversion to sock dresses?
Nope. To each their own. If I don't like how it looks, I am fully free to just O_O at it, then navigate quietly away from the page. No need for rage, no need for harsh judgment. I'm free to feel the same way if I see a doll dressed in a colour I don't like, or with a wig I don't like. Sock dresses to me, are really just another garment. You could just as easily ask "What about cheap eyeballs? What about cheap wigs? What about expensive shoes? What about plastic props?" This mindset could apply to any facet of the BJD experience because there's always going to be the range of people who have a serious distaste for inexpensive stuff or cheap stuff, those who only love the most expensive, those who only love the higher quality, people who are in love with Barbie (and other department store doll) accessories, and people who are like the coupon clippers of the BJD world, always trying to find a new sensible way to accomplish what they want. It's a good thing!

- Do you think it makes a doll less of a doll when it doesn't have what the avarage owner calls proper clothing?
Nope, but I would be lying if I said I had never been a bit sad to see a gorgeous doll with a faceup that looked done with crayons, in the dark, after a shot of vodka, while riding a Tilt-O-Whirl. Chances are, most of you have too. The same applies to dress. Just because we don't like it doesn't mean we're bad people. Humans are naturally inclined to FEEL things and it doesn't make you a bad person for not liking what someone has done. What matters if how you react. If I don't like how a doll is dressed or faceupped, that is my business. That said, I don't hate sock dresses. Maybe they're not designer clothing, but at least they are SOMETHING, they show some effort. Same for less-than-good faceups. Maybe I don't love them, but at least someone is trying.

- Do you think less of the owner when they choose to either have a temporary sockdress or a permanent sock dress?
Nope, because at least it's something. Even if the person lacks the money, skill, knowledge, or willingness to purchase "proper" clothing, it doesn't mean they love their doll less.
For example: one of my friends dresses her baby in old shirt dresses - she cut apart her old favorite shirts and sewed and tied them back together to look like little dresses for her baby. It wasn't that she couldn't afford "proper" baby clothes (though it is very financially trying to be a single mother, so she couldn't afford designer clothing or anything), it wasn't that she didn't care enough. It's that it was practical, and it was what she wanted to do! And I'd seriously want to pop someone in the head if they ever implied it was because she cared less about her baby. Seriously, who are we to judge that sort of thing, in humans, pets, dolls, anything? And for the record, I love my friend's shirt dresses for her baby, they are seriously adorable!


- Let me now how you feel about sock dresses in general.
I probably pretty well summed it up in my previous posts. My dolls have never worn sock dresses and probably never will because it's not my style. I like to keep my dolls in professional looking clothing and each one has a few outfits, so I am set. As long as they're dressed, I'm okay with them not having a limitless wardrobe or anything. Like I said earlier, to each their own. Dress, faceup, wigging, eyeballs, the whole lot.

Your doll is your doll. Embrace it!

 

I don't see anything wrong with sockdresses, even the badly made ones. I've seen some beautifully-made outfits that noone would think it's made out of socks.

But think of this for a moment.

Say you're going to meet a bunch of new people for the first time. You want to make yourself look presentable, right? It doesn't even matter if you're rich and have plenty of brand new, fashionable clothes. You would at the very least, would try to look decent right?

So would you wear some haphazardly-made outfit? Would you go to a party wearing a burlap bag, no matter how clean-looking it is, and expect people not to make a judgement?

So if you make a crappy sock dress, then post it online, then didn't get the reception you were hoping for...can you really be that surprised?

And yes, people judge. ALL the time. It doesn't matter who you are. It's human nature. If you tell me that you've never judged anyone based from their physical appearance then I will just have to say, "Watch out, your pants are on fire."

 

hehehe!
I love re-purposing!


And sock-it-to-me socks are freakn' aweeesome!
The mustache ones are my fav.
I should make a cut-off toe dress with that.
Cuz it be super duuuper cool!
And then make her a lil felt mustache to go along.
*squeek*

 

Of course no one thinks that anyone is an elitist for buying a $12 dress. Personally, I just wouldn't want to buy a $12 dress for my doll because doll clothes don't take a lot of cloth, and since I can sew, I know I can probably make that $12 dress for $2. I'd rather spend the remaining money on a pair of shoes or some other accessory that I can't make. It all adds up, after all. So when I get a new doll, she might just wear a sock for a little while until I have time to make something else...naked dolls just look cold to me. Yeah, I know that's really silly ^_^;;

 

A first attempt at sewing something isn't a dreaded sock dress. There's a difference between a beginner sewer trying to find fabric and notions, read a pattern, cut things out nicely, stitch it together, hem it, fix mistakes, etc., and someone taking scissors to a sock.

Really, as others have mentioned, it seems to be the time and effort far more than the cost that triggers the negative reactions. Many people spend a lot of time, creativity, and skill to get what they want out of the hobby. That's not only in making things, that's also in hunting down juuuust the right things to buy. It's hard from their perspective to really look highly on something that looks like it took nearly zero effort by anyone involved in the process. It really doesn't have to be a rich vs poor issue.

Hornisse made an excellent point. It doesn't matter how shallow or deep you think it is, clothes do have meaning, and people will either consciously or unconsciously react to them. Dolls represent the human form. The symbolism of what they wear comes with them - is in fact emphasized, because the best way to show that your doll is, say, a pirate is to put some really pirate-y clothes on them. If they're an emo vampire, they may just be in a fair amount of black. Perhaps part of the disdain of dreaded sock dresses is that they don't particularly read as anything (except perhaps as 'lazy' or 'cheap' to some).

I used to show horses. According to the rules, most kinds of halters (for example) were acceptable as long as they were clean and safe. However, different breeds have different styles of tack, and each discipline has traditionally acceptable kinds of clothing. If you went too far outside of the accepted norm, even if you weren't breaking rules, the judge wasn't going to place you. I'm not talking about on a safety/humane treatment level, but purely on a presentation level. It indicated a lack of preparation and understanding that could be remedied by showing basic interest in the breed/discipline itself, i.e. reading, flipping through magazines, going online. Most hobbies have an "gold standard" and that brings along with it snobbery and pricetage obsession, but below that there is a basic level that most people find acceptable. The "anger" may not be "OMG, whut are you DOing with ur doll, you disgusting poor person!" snobbery. It may also be, "I'm doing my best, why aren't you?"

It's not acceptable to go around saying nasty things to people about their dolls in any format for any reason. In the case of DoA, it's also not allowed. However, people are entirely allowed to get tired of seeing things they don't like, and to express that dislike. I'm in the "sock apathy" camp, myself. I see neither sock dresses nor sock dress hate in the places I look.

 

Thanks Kim! I was not so enlightened by my Google search. Those eyeballs sound so cool, I am so happy I am a YJ moron sometimes.
Awakened Dreams your girl looks adorable in her sock. Maybe you should sew the fake fur to the bottom???

There are entire books and magazines devoted to re-purposing or upcycling. I do it myself for humans. Unfortunately I cannot find a sock that would git my fat a** or I would make me and my doll matching outfits. Heh. And another thing, I am getting a Dahlia, how the heck am I going to find a sock that size? I know I'm being bratty, but this just brings out the brat in me.
The truth is the sharing on this forum being done by photographs, you can have an amazing photograph of a doll in a handkerchief and a horrible one of a doll in Baby the Stars Shine Bright. Meetups are a different story, if I brought my doll to a meetup in a sock dress I would hope it would be a gorgeous sock dress, just as I wouldn't go myself to a meetup with no makeup wearing my bathrobe I wouldn't take my doll with no faceup in an old sweat sock because it wouldn't show either of us to our best advantage.
Sylphide you hit the nail right on the head, and you made me all misty eyed. Especially knowing the type of clothing you can sew. Socks wouldn't stand a chance, even they would be gorgeous.

 

But in this hobby there is no written "Gold Standard" the way there is for showing horses, cats, dogs, etc. What baffles me is, and I loathe having to use a clichè, that refusing to buy a doll simply because "first rate" clothing or accessories isn't in the budget is much like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The doll you may be coveting may not always be there, even if it's not a limited full set. Just ask anyone who put off buying certain Super Gems.

 

- Do you have an aversion to sock dresses?
I honestly, am not a fan.

- Do you think it makes a doll less of a doll when it doesn't have what the avarage owner calls proper clothing?
No not really. I dont like them, but when I first got my doll, she had no clothes and so I was forced to make her random clothes out of stuff like socks. ( I was 15, no job.) It means you love them, and you try, even when you have no finances.

- Do you think less of the owner when they choose to either have a temporary sockdress or a permanent sock dress?
Temporary sock dress: Thats fine
Permanent sock dress: Not so much. I could understand if it was ridiculously cute for a sock dress, but most sock dresses are fugly.

- Let me now how you feel about sock dresses in general.
Like I said, I'm not a fan...but at least your doll isn't runnin around naked.

 

Thank you! You may be young, but you hit the nail straight on the head.

I noticed as well from the same people, snobbery about what camera you have too. I use a two year old Fuji 10megapixel digital camera that I paid $200 instead of a $1000 SLR with 25 different lenses. Guess my camera isn't good enough.

 

I want to add to my above post because I think I'm of two minds about it.

Do I like the look of sock dresses that are just socks with the toes cut off and worn like a sack? No.
Do I hate sack like sock dresses and the people who utilize them? No.
Do I think people could get professional clothing on a budget? Absolutely. I do so.
Would I ever utilize a sack like sock dress? No.
Can socks be made into awesome stuff? Absolutely. It's just knit fabric, after all.
Is it okay that I don't really like the look of sack like sock dresses? Yes, and it's okay if you feel that way too.

So this is all to say, I'm totally of a live and let live attitude. I am a human with opinions, therefore there will always be styles that I don't like. Sack like sock dresses just happen to fall into the category of things I don't like. All that matters to me is that my dolls don't wear what I don't want them to not wear. If someone wants their doll to have a completely sock wardrobe, that's fine! Whether it's awesomely high quality sock wear or more beginner's level sockwear, it doesn't matter. I reserve the right to look away, and people have the same right with my dolls if mine wear something they don't like.

 

Well, it certainly looks like the belief from certain quarters that anyone who admits to having standards is a terrible, terrible Elitist is in no danger of going extinct any time soon... Pity, that. You'd think we would have moved beyond that by now.

That said, using a sock as raw material for an outfit is no better or worse than using any other kind of repurposed fabric.

It's not what you start with that matters.

It's what you do with it.

That sock can be used to make something impressive, or it can be used to make something awful. The results can look good on your doll, or they can look like something the cat dragged in... People's reactions are going to depend a lot more on that than they will on where you got the fabric.

 

Having standards doesn't make you an Elitist, it just makes you kind of a snob.
haha!
We are all snobs to some degree, no one is truly humble. Especially when it comes to a hobby or something you really love to.
We want to see the best, and maybe without realizing we snob the noobie ugly doll, spoken out or not.
Your not a terrible person for that, but people also shouldn't be super surprised and defensive when some one else calls you out.
I'm rude, I'm a snob, I'm not perfect I'm a human being.
And I'm ok with what anyone chooses to think about me or my dolls.
Socks or not.


No one is really saying anything different by this point.
I should probably stop following this it's getting kinda boring.
*yawns*

^_~

 

Oh and don't forget "sock perps / sock perpetrators." That one had me snorting soda out my nose with the gales of laughter.


*****
and on a more serious note: NO. Having standards does NOT make you an elitist.

Expecting others to agree with and abide by YOUR standards makes you... well, maybe not an elitist, but at the very least a little unrealistic.

That comment kind of clicked on something that's been bothering me for eons in this hobby, and it usually ends up taking on the term "elitist." I think it's the same thing that bothers me about people associating terms like "unpatriotic" or something less pleasant, to others who don't share a particular point of view. No, disagreeing with a person in X office does not imply lack of respect for the office, it implies lack of agreement with the person.

Likewise, having standards for your doll collection is actually a very GOOD thing, in my mind, as long as you only apply them to yourself. Or anyone who happens to share your point of view about standards. That way you always have an idea of where you're going, what you will or won't accept for your own collection, and what you'd prefer to look at from other people's.

The problems always seem to arise when a set of standards get applied to a huge swath of people with different ideas, from different means and different points of view. In this particular thread we've seen the "elitist" label get tossed around a lot, as well as the "careless" or "sloppy" label. I wonder if it's not actually just different sets of "this is pretty" going on, rather than elitism or its opposite.

Don't mind me, I'm just "thinking out loud" here. But this keeps cropping up over and over again in various situations, and someone always ends up getting hurt or disgruntled by the angst and walks away. I wonder if we could figure it out so that it could be stopped. ---- naaah, I'm probably being unrealistic

 

^^ Yes!

And, really - where are these 'elitists?!'

I really wish some people would stop trying to say anyone who doesn't agree is either rich, a snob, or an elitist (heck, why not all three?) The fact that there are STILL people insisting upon this stereotype is really getting tired. It's immature, and - to be frank - I can only read so many 'elitist snob' posts before I want to roll my eyes and sigh.

Why? Because it's sad. It's sad that there are tons and tons of people here in this thread - like me - who have to continue to reassure other people about this issue. Maybe there's a very small 1% of rich people on DoA, let alone in the BJD hobby, who also happen to be snobby elitists - but (once again) I can assure you, no one's acting like they are, here.

But hey, if you really want to call everyone who might disagree with you outright wrong without understanding their POV, go ahead. I can only go on for so long about the same topic before I notice that no one's listening - and that's something all of us "snobby, rich, elitists", who didn't want to dress their doll in a sock, should realize.

I believe this, in some way. It's what this entire thread pretty much was supposed to be about - what, in your opinion, do you think about sock dresses: do you like them, or don't you? I didn't, and I said why I didn't. I don't think they're pretty (with the exception of a well-done dress, made from socks) and they look bad, for the most part, and I don't like looking at bad clothes.

If this question was 'what is your opinion of chocolate ice cream?' and I said I didn't care for chocolate much, are people going to get mad at me for not liking it? It's all a preference of taste, and I don't get why people are making such a fuss for others to deal with.

^Indeed

 

I feel like pointing this out for what is starting to feel like the hundredth time -- no one has said anything about "first rate" clothing, or having to spend lots of money, or being an expert seamstress etc etc etc. People have been treating this like it's either a sock dress or Doll Heart with nothing in between and that's what really baffles me. If someone wants to use a sock dress, that's fine, but this idea that they're people's only recourse is hard to take seriously.

As for standards... there wouldn't be written standards here, but then what timid was talking about wasn't anything official either. All groups have their own sort of culture, norms and expectations regarding various things. This hobby isn't really any different. So as far as it goes, the example is not necessarily a bad one. However, as dolls aren't competitive people are free to do what they want.

I agree with you here. My question is, though, are people really holding each other to their own standards? If anti-sock people (*giggle*) were trying to harass and force sock people into changing their footwear ways, I would say there would be an issue. However, in this case, people are merely responding to the question "what do you think of sock dresses." The OP even asked how sock dresses made people feel about owners who used them. A lot of the opinions given are the sorts of things that don't come up unless asked -- which is why there is always inherent danger in threads like this.

And just in general (not a response to the above quote)
Whether people want to admit it or not, there are always things that each of us have an unfavorable attitude towards whether it be something as innocuous as a sock dress or as serious as political and environmental issues. Sure in the grand scheme of things sock dresses are small potatoes, but as it's a doll forum and not a political one, most debates/discussions are about complete nonissues

 

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Why can't people let go of this whole mentality. It's not an elitist or a pauper thing. It's a choice, and you can not judge someone for choosing to NOT spend money on something but just the same you can not judge someone FOR spending money. I myself would opt to the cheaper route due to my personal finances, but FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, its a topic about how appealing socks are in the aesthetic!

People can not judge other people as "wealthy" or "poor" based on their views on socks, they further can not blame someone who maybe makes three times as much as them for wanting to save their money and not buy fancy clothes. It is a matter of choice as I have said all along. For or against, all of us are worthy collectors, we are all in our way "right" and this thread is now almost completely off topic.

Please stop attacking the right of each person to their own view or their right to collect dolls based on your personal views. Both sides! If you feel someone should stay out of the hobby due to their inability to afford something and you tell them that of course they are going to get upset! Likewise if you tell someone they are an elitist and should shut up because you don't agree with their standards of course they are going to get upset. Respect other people's opinions BOTH parties.

At first I thought this conversation and topic was fun and silly but the last few pages have grown rather heated. This is why I felt the need to comment. I am sorry if something I said contributed to this madness. It was meant as friendly constructive commentary. For those being misinterpreted, let it go! For those getting offended, let it go! It's SOCKS!

 

^I agree. Things are getting too heated, and it is driving me a tad insane. Yet, I'm being pulled back in, anyway. And it's true - the same stuff is being said a dozen times, no one's listening, and we've come to a stalemate on the whole situation. As thorough as my posts have been, I've been getting fed up.

(I think I should apologize if my last post was a tad angrier than one can expect of me. It has not been a good Monday - at all - and even though no one was offended by my tone, sounding like a madwoman wasn't my intent...)