The company goes bad - can you still enjoy their dolls?

It wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the dolls I have, but it might well impact future purchases from that company.

Years ago there was a dispute involving two companies; with accusing the other of copying their doll body for a new male doll. It was a huge mess, and having handled and examined both bodies, at length in person, I knew first-hand that the accusation was completely trumped up. After alot of name calling on one conpanies part, and a court case where the other was exonerated, the accusing company went off and created a whole new line,on a new style body, mostly on the premise that it "couldn't be copied."

I don't like the new dolls at all (nor do alot of people it seems), so for that reason I never bought any of the new line, even though I adore the older dolls. The whole scenario also left a very bad taste in my mouth in terms of how that company behaved, so even if I liked the dolls that the company was currently producing, It's unlikely I'd be buying any.

On another company; I love some of the imaginitive sculpts a newer company produces, but their production times, errors and damages in delivery, have soured me from doing business with them in general, in the future. Not that I don't love their dolls, I just dislike their business practices and choose to not support their endeavor.

Now, neither of these companies did anything illegal, were not thieves or otherwise criminal. I just don't like the way they do business, so I choose to take my business elsewhere, and deal with companies that have earned my respect, both for the quality of their products, and also how they conduct themselves in the doll market.

Do these incidences affect how much I like the dolls I already have? Absolutely not. I love the dolls I have, but I don't need or want any more from either of these two companies.

 

Gayle, do you have any links to show that Dollmore were eventually exonerated? The last I heard was that despite overwhelming evidence on the part of Dollshe, the court case was never actually resolved either way. It's something that an awful lot of people have an opinion on, but no one can say for sure what the truth of the matter is.

I only have dolls from Volks and Camellia Dynasty, and as far as I'm aware neither of those companies have done anything that I could find shameful or ruin my experience with those dolls.

There are a few companies I absolutely will never purchase dolls from based on their past behaviour, be it copying or terrible customer service or both, but I retain the right to keep the identity of those companies to myself. I've no interest in ruining someone else's business, and since I have no dealings with those companies, I can't offer any reviews either, I just know that no matter how lovely the dolls, there are certain companies whose business practices just do not jive with my personal ethics, and I wouldn't be able to buy from them without feeling that I'd compromised myself uncomfortably.

 

I got my information from the US rep for the accused comany at the time. I have no other verification except for that, but she has always been a very honest person. Then again, perhaps in communication (she is Korean) there could have been minor points of misunderstanding.

Needless to say, my point really wasn't to drag out old sludge, but only to illustrate the reasons I make choices to not buy from certain companies after certain sorts of experiences.

 

That's what I heard too.

I'm in the camp that no company's acts post-purchase would sully the enjoyment of the dolls I already own, but it might impact my purchases in the future. If Luts suddenly went down the toilet I might elect not to purchase another doll from them, but it doesn't make me love the Delfs I own now any less. The idea is sort of silly, honestly.

It also depends on what you define 'go bad' as. A lot of people had some really sour feelings towards Elfdoll when they essentially shut down distribution outside their membership. I don't hold those same sour feelings and it won't stop me from purchasing the Elfdoll I want after I'm in a financial position to do so, and it most certainly doesn't impact my adoration for the Elfdoll I already own. I refuse to allow other people's pearl-clutching hurt feelings to color my opinions, unless those hurt feelings are due to concrete evidence of a company's wrongdoing or slipshod nature. (It is possibly worth noting that my definition of 'concrete evidence' is very strict.)

 

It's actually nice to see that people seem to care so much about this issue. It's a nice break from the "whatever" and "lol" attitude I encounter so much, and am so sick of.

I agree with the quote regarding LS. It was her attitude that to me answered the question. My life experience told me that the guilty are quite capable of stridently crying their innocence. It doesn't make sense to people who are basically honest, we wouldn't do that - but isn't that why we are constantly reading books and watching dramas that dissect criminal psychology? I'd go further - I had doubts about the earlier sculpts - I sculpt myself and I thought Ted and others seemed somewhat clumsy in illogical ways. Just sayin'...

I would echo others in this thread. We can't control the ethics behind all our purchases - but the day we simply give up trying, well, that's a sad day. I know it's complex; wonderful art can come through not so wonderful people - but I must admit what I learn of an artist's life affects me. I'm a French Impressionist fangirl, have been since I was little, and I know learning the Gauguin left his family to poverty (5 kids, come on!) to go paint girls in grass skirts in Tahiti...well, while I can appreciate what his work meant to the progression of the art of painting, I have what we keep referring to here as zee sour taste.

Maybe what it comes down to is our own honest response. Emotions aren't right or wrong, they just are. We have them, then we choose what to do with 'em. If a situation with a BJD company or artist affects us, then of course it will affect how we feel about the dolls. I have the Elfdoll issue - missed the sign up, can't get access to the site, wah... It's fuzzy, I can't figure out if there is a right or wrong there. But it doesn't affect how I love my 2 ED's. Copying, sweatshops? That would affect me, so how I felt about the dolls would likely be affected too.

It's a really interesting question.

Side note: I'm reading through the CCC threads now, I was seriously thinking of getting one down the line so want to know what the upshot of it all is. Wow, long threads!

 

Excellent post *tumble* Your Gauguin example really hit the mark with me personally because I LOVE his artwork but never got any of his prints because of his horrible behavior.

After thinking further on this, I know I wouldn't buy from Domuya because they copy another company's IP. I don't think they have been sued or anything, and I doubt the company being stolen from is even aware of it, but it makes me feel that if Domuya's artist can't stand on their own two feet and produce original concepts then I shouldn't be subject to the really high price point demanded for these resin dolls. I feel BJDs, more than anything, are works of art. Copies, even of IP that originally had nothing to do with BJDs, don't interest me. Not for what they cost.

If I want my doll to cosplay a fantasy character from a popular video game, I'll do it myself.

 

I gotta agree with what a lot of people have said. If a company goes bad, honestly it wont make me regret buying any dolls in my possession. It just means I probably wont buy from them direct.

 

...Domuya? I wasn't aware they did custom dolls.

 

Err...not custom. They have a few dolls that "borrow" heavily from a popular video game but mostly in costumes/accessories. It's just part of the whole package in my opinion. If others feel that the sculpts themselves are unique enough and that's all that matters then that's up to the buyer to decide

 

I think if I have ill feelings toward a company, it will reflect onto my doll that I purchased from there. Especially if the company did recast or copying.................. wrongful business practice, horrible customer service etc......

I can't ignore the fact that the doll is in fact from there. I cannot help it ><

 

Honestly, being away and hearing about the LS issue upset me a little. I've been around a while, and seen the whole DZ conflict come and go... but the LS, well that was just what Tumble and other say, it was about attitude! DZ is a great company, and honestly, I don't hold it against them... but to see people get so heated and angry, well, yes, that is unprofessional. But when dealing with a non-company (or an unestablished company headed by a younger 'artist', I think that's oftentimes what you get.

The difference with LS and DZ was that one handled it responsibly, not letting passion and anger cloud the resolution. There can still be resolution for LS, but she's created a lot of anger along the way.

While I can't recall who said it... It is not the doll's fault. I do still enjoy my LS, but I am saddened that a controversy started over her lines. I feel nothing for the company, I feel everything for LS (disillusionment).

 

My feelings for Custom House have been soured. When I entered the hobby, they were a reliable company with a strong image; you knew a CH doll when you saw one. Their frequent uniques and limiteds were incredible works of art all, it was a joy to look through the gallery of sold uniques. But sometime around 2006-2007 they closed down their standard line to work on a new body, and it took them over a year to reopen. In that year they completely revamped the company. They changed the look, faceup style, resin color and bodies of the dolls. They also fired the faceup artists who helped define the CH style. Their business plans seemed to change drastically too. They introduced multiple new lines of dolls which seemed to fall by the wayside when they couldn't keep up with orders. They also had, for a short time, a special "full choice system" which I don't believe exists anymore. Not to mention that bout of 6 month wait times and the strange sales they have all the time... anyway, the point is I felt like the soul of the company that I had come to know and love had gone. I purchased one of their renewed dolls, Sram. He was my dream doll. But when I got him, I could tell that he wasn't the same doll I had pined over from their old site. I missed the spirit their older dolls had. I ended up selling him after a long year of trying to like him. Even though there are more sculpts from CH that I like, if I want a doll with that old CH spirit, I'll go to Rosen Lied.

So yes, it can sour my feelings on a company, and on their dolls. But I actually began to treasure my old CH dolls even more! I had a VERY hard time selling my CH Unique Junior Ai Irang(whiteskin)... she was probably one of THE most rare dolls they've ever released! I felt like I had to preserve a remaining bit of CH history. In the end I did decide to sell her, because I was just keeping her like a museum piece and I really wasn't loving her for her anymore. I hope she is enjoyed even more where she is now.

 

What nakitama just said!

I can't imagine ever letting go of my core group of "old" CH dolls--they were my first BJDs, and they're precious to me. I just wish more BJD owners realized what a difference there is between CH as it exists now and the original CH dolls, company, customer service, and quality. It makes me a little sad when I see relatively new members of DoA running down all CH dolls (even though they've never actually seen or touched an older one) just because they only know about the company in its current state.

 

To nakitama and Cynthia in FlintHills: I also am in the same boat as you because I have purchased a unique Ai Temptation Cebee from Custom House back on 2006. And to see where CH is at now also saddens me a great deal. It's a shame people are are now buying CH don't know how great CH used to be. I also treasure my Cebee greatly.

 

I completely and utterly agree with the Custom House thing! When I first started into the hobby I remember that CH was building an image almost as solid as Volks, and their artistry was amazing! I pined over one of the Unique line based off of a Korean Drama forever.... and then it all went away, to be replaced with this older, yet paradoxically more immature company. T_T

Anyway, back on topic, I really don't know definitively.... I'm in the boat with several other people of 'does it involve me personally? If not I'd feel really sorry for the people involved and make a note that will influence future purchases'. There's just so much money involved in this hobby that I don't feel secure giving it to someone that I know has been publicly and notably irresponsible in the past. Mistrusting someone you're giving large sums to doesn't add up to me, so I wouldn't do it. If I loved the doll so much that I'd take the risk, then that means that I only have myself to blame if something happens, for trusting the person despite others' kind advice.
However, I don't view everyone that way! That's my personal rule concerning such purchases, but if someone else is scammed I'd be more likely to be angry on their behalf, certainly! No one deserves to be scammed. O_O

 

This reminds me, that despite of loving about 10 sculpts from their line-up enough to warrant a purchase and their great customer service, I refuse to purchase a doll from DollMore becuase of how poorly they secure their items for shipping! It's so bizarre to me that they make lovely doll boxes with their dolls snug and safe inside, only to haphazardly toss that box into a random larger box with zero extra packing to keep it all safe and sturdy as it goes through international shipping.

 

I had some firsthand experience with something similar (but not really the same) as this.

When I got Ty (Ringdoll Ryan) I was super excited, except for two things: One, Ty didn't come with the promised 'free gift' (I ordered during a promotion) and two (and more importantly) Ty didn't come with a birth card. After getting into contact with both the supplier and Ringdoll, and not having this issue resolved after repeated emailing, eventually I gave up.

Does it affect how much I love Ty? Not in the slightest.
Does it affect how I view the companies in question? You betcha.

But Ty won't be stained by the same brush, because he's my baby, and it's not his fault that I didn't get what I was supposed to.

I think if anything happened with any other dolls I got, the feeling would be much the same.

 

Something I learned a long time ago, art has very little to do with the artist. What I mean by that is that horrid, shallow, inconsiderate, obnoxious people can be the creators of fantastic, moving, beautiful art. Of course when a wonderful person is the artist, the experience is that much better, but most of the time we need to be able to separate the two, in our minds.
I learned this from filmmakers, some of the sweetest people make truly bad art and some absolute a-holes make the films that can change your life, or stay with you and live forever in your memories.

As far as LS goes, I still remain completely unconvinced that her Serenity was a copy. Seriously? There are so many dolls that "look like" other dolls. One example off the top of my head, the new Luts Spica resembles a Volks School C, the only difference being an open mouth. I looked at all the photos in that situation and still was not sold. And as far as her bad behavior, I can say from my own real life experience, there is nothing so horrifying as being falsely accused. Of anything. And no matter what you do there will be those who put thier own spin on it to make it seem as if your outrage or bad behavior proves your guilt. Being upset and indiscreet does not make you guilty, it just makes you obnoxious. And perhaps not using the best judgment at the time. No, sorry, attitude does not prove anything. That's just ridiculous. If that's what real life experience leads you to believe you should get out more.
CCC, well that's pretty cut and dried. What the root of the situation is remains unknown, but basically it all comes down to commerce, doesn't it?

As far as Elfdoll goes I really have to ROTFL, just picturing the pearl clutching hurt feeling crowd that can't be bothered to sign up for a membership that, hello, did not cost any money, just a click of the mouse and a couple lines to type, which clearly the outraged are capable of as they filled up an entire thread with their mooing and moaning. Not to mention the outrage. Which I am sure I will be the recipient of as soon as I hit Submit Reply. One more thread to ban myself from.

 

I am extremely opinionated and not very forgiving when it comes to BJDs. There are a lot of doll companies that I will not patronize due to their behavior for assorted reasons: recasting other dolls, really obviously using other dolls as "inspiration" even just for marketing purposes, failing to handle customer service issues in a rational manner, blitzing doll forums with advertising and fake customer reviews, drastic drops in quality, weird ranty defensive outbursts. I hold other businesses in the hobby to the same standards so face-up artists can easily fall into the Never or Never Again category as well.

I've steered clear of most of the companies I find distasteful in some way before making a purchase from them, so that distaste doesn't touch my own collection. Sadly Custom House is one of those companies for me too. They used to be fantastic and I treasure my Unique Choa and even the memory of acquiring her, but the second Choa head I purchased was such poor quality by comparison and the associated Dollcatch Stella head is exponentially worse. I won't buy any new dolls from them, but I kind of think of it as though CH no longer really exists.
I've gotten some really awful customer service from Luts in the past and I was so furious I bought nothing for several years. Since then they've really worked hard to turn things around and I'm a happy customer again. Never did really impact my love for my Shiwoo.

In most cases where there was some logistical nightmare in getting a doll, I don't really associate that with the doll, just the person (or shipping agency or shopping cart) who failed in some way. It's harder when it's the artist or face-up artist who created my doll behaves thoughtlessly and I stumble across it online. I just can't help remembering the unkind words when I look at my doll. I guess I just have to keep it in mind that I can make pretty things too, and I am a right b i t c h sometimes.

 

I love my two Dollshes and bought them both second-hand so no, it wouldn't 'tarnish' them for me. But...if I know that a company engages in bad business practices than I wouldn't buy from them again. I do feel bad for all the people waiting for the CCC dolls; I hope that situation sorts itself out soon.

And yes, sometimes it's easy to seperate the artist from the art but sometimes the behaviour of the artist can contaminate how you feel about their work forever. Just look at the recent Polanski case. That ruined some very fine films for me. It's just personal choice and the ability to be able to seperate emotions. Some people are better than others at this.