The company goes bad - can you still enjoy their dolls?

freddiegirl, if you knew the antics and goings on in the film business, you might never want to see one again. It's rough I tell you. I agree with you about Polanski, I think he is just a vile spoiled pervert, but it doesn't change the fact that Tess and Rosemary's Baby are two of the films that affected me the most as a young woman. That explains a lot.
The CCC thing is so upsetting and mystifying I don't even know what to think about it. I was so fortunate to be "saved" from it.

 

I will not love my doll so much if I found its manufact company copy others doll.

 

While I think Elfdoll's current business practice is ridiculous, would it stop me from buying from them? Probably not if Rainman came up with some incredible sculpt that I couldn't live without. Luckily, that has not happened with his last four Rainy's. However, I would be still be a little concerned and only buy it through a credit card for which I could charge back if I didn't receive my goods. And that has more to do with DK's comments about them being a small company and therefore can't answer too many questions and her statement that she had to let go of some of her employees (red flags IMO) than her decision to limit membership and her inappropriate comments regarding her former US agent.

I certainly love the Rainy's I do have and DK's meltdown last summer never stopped my enjoyment of them.

 

Despite the fact that I think the people that run Elfdoll have recently gone insane, I would still buy one of their dolls if the opportunity arose and it was an absolutely stunning sculpt. But it would have to be stunning! Luckily I haven't had any bad experiences, though I felt like the folks at Luts charged me an arm to ship Peakswood Cue to me.

 

Wow, havent finished reading here yet, but I have bookmarked this thread. Stuck in utter limbo hell of being jerked around by Charles Stephan for over 9 months and all the suffering in the CCC waiting room, I do have plenty of feelings about this subject. Its definitely affected my feelings about the Fuuga Charles sent me in December - ahead of Fuugas which had been ordered months earlier than mine, and mine came with a broken head, and hand fell off, and is still costing me money, and sitting around like a parapalegic mess....

But my Fidelia Tiggy is my most favorite doll, and has been through alot over this on her blog below in my signature....

My CCC creatures are my favorite dolls and all have been affected by this, except for Tiggy who has been directly taking on "Chucky" in her blog for months now.

 

I said that my life experience told me LS's reactions indicated guilt. An emotional response doesn't make you guilty, but I have had enough experience to recognize a defensiveness that has a guilty taint to it. I trust my perceptions, and I get out quite enough, thanks.

I also think not trusting your own instincts just puts you in the passenger seat of your own life. Going over the CCC thread, it seems that people took a long time to look at the situation objectively. Call a spade a spade, there was swindling going on. Swindlers and the like aren't generally cool headed, meticulous planners. More often they are people like Madoff who allow their own greed and bent psychology drag them and others into a whirlpool that drags everyone down. I think it's a healthy thing to pay attention to our own warning system.

Interesting and very true points about the movie business. Watch "The Grifters" sometime. Good insights there into darker psychology.

 

Ha, ha, The Grifters is one of my favorite films. I love Jim Thompson anything.

The problem with CCC, is what was anyone to do? Fly to the Netherlands and kill him?

I think what I hate the most is a mob mentality. The whole "burn her she's a witch" mob mentality of attack when some alpha dog bites another and the mob smells blood and starts circling in for the kill. I've been a victim of that, and the lesson I learned is to think for myself, and not to make assumptions. Although yes Tumble I agree with you it is important to trust your instincts, accusing a person or company of an action, deed or ideal that you do not know of first hand is very dangerous. And can be unintentionally or not, cruel. What I wish for the human race is evolution, marked by the loss of the seeming necessity for cruelty to others. Starting with me. I have often been accused of meanness (my best friend told me I had a window of nice everyday. wow), but I am trying. Really.

 

The problem with Charles Stephan, Charles Creature Cabinet, CCC is that we just had no reason not to believe him until too late.

 

What a company does after I have bought a doll from them is meaningless to me with the dolls I have. Now would I buy from them again is another story, but I certainly would not consider my existing one tainted by association.

Think about it - if your best friend's father robbed a bank and was imprisoned, would you suddenly stop associating with your best friend? Have they changed as a person (other than someone who probably needs friendly support) simply because their father went bad? Only someone hopelessly shallow would do something like that.

heck even if one day someone came to me and said "They proved yesterday beyond a shadow of a doubt that your XXXX doll was recast from XXXX company's sculpt" I wouldn't love my doll any less. Ain't the doll's fault.

 

Precisely Yasha, the sins of the father cannot logically be visited upon the son. Hope I didn't sound like Spock there.
It's fine to try to be ethical when you buy things (for instance that is why I don't shop at Walmart, or buy from Avon) but unfortunately you can't be everywhere and know everything. And truly what I don't want to do is jump to conclusions without solid evidence. Solid evidence is not "he said she said" or "Who shot John" type logic. That's just emotionalism. And I don't attach that to objects like art. Which is what I consider my dolls to be.

 

I can see what you mean by this, but it seems precisely like emotions attached to art to even refer to a doll as analogous to the child of criminal. The object in question doesn't have an independent spirit through which it can act to redeem itself. It's an object created by an individual, so the actions of that individual will follow it, at the very least because any discussion of the history of the object and its creation will include the history of the individual. The entirety of art history should certainly tell us that the scandal attached to an artist follows the creation.

 

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. Just prior to this whole thing hitting the fan -- or maybe AS it was hitting the fan? -- I purchased a 2nd hand light tan Big Ted. I think he's simply adorable but I haven't really connected to him the way I'd hoped to. I do think part of it came from being taken aback by the public ranting. Yeah, sure, call me an old fogey but public displays of profanity don't do much for me...

Still, I haven't given up on him and I still think the chibis are about the cutest things ever.

As to any of the others... well, I guess the number of DZs I own says something. I know they copied an early doll and I know they were accused of ripping off the Yukinojo body (cue choirs of angels -- and no, I don't mean that sarcastically, he is glorious). But the simple fact is that for some reason or other I love their early, clunky, nose-y sculpts. I just really do. And mine will stay here until the resin turns *black*

Elfdoll's customer service disaster last year hasn't changed my complete adoration of several of their sculpts. If the girls looked a little less... harsh, maybe? or if any of his newer boys really appealed to me, I'd still give them another shot, because Rainman does such beautiful work. Again, though, my Reds and my tan K will be here till they crumble.

If I were one of the people waiting on a Charles piggy or faery? Wow, that might be another story entirely. What a disaster. How could you possibly feel the same toward a doll that you had not yet received and who had caused you (indirectly) so much angst? That would be hard to do. My heart just broke reading that thread this afternoon.

ETA: Customhouse. I think I may have been one of the most fortunate people in the world. I didn't know them as a company in the "good old days" but absolutely fell head over heels for an older beauty who was sold here in the marketplace. Kaboom, dead as a doorknob, must have. She's ethereal and gorgeous and just a beautiful piece of doll. I'm so glad I have her. Makes the comparison to what people describe about the newer dolls seem perfectly painful.

 

I would be really upset if the resale value was killed by what the company did. Part of the nice things about dolls, is that you can resell them for close to the same amount if you decide you wanna move a different direction with the type of dolls you have, say SD to MSD or start to like boy dolls better than girl ones.

If the resale value dropped (or was unsellable, in the case of a copy) I would be extremely irritated, and it would make me feel differently about the doll.

 

Stella Maris, I live in Los Angeles so I am aware that the film industry is an ugly business but unfortunately the Polanksi case is one case that has been well publicized. Bottom line I cannot condone his actions and that also means that this colors his films for me. I too enjoyed Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown as well but there it is. I agree that if I knew more 'hard' facts about the film indusrty that it would marr my enjoyment of most movies. As far as Elfdoll is concerned I can be honest and say that their last meltdown has colored their dolls for me. I can also be honest and say that the decision to not buy from them again is an easy one as I'm not a huge fan of their sculpts or the quality of the resin. If this were Dollshe that had the meltdown it might be harder for me and perhaps my own selfishness would win out. I can admit that as well.

 

Yes and no - as others have said I suppose it would depend on the severity of the "bad" act and the company's response and apology (or lack thereof) whether or not I'd be soured permanently. Obviously re-casting, copying and theft are deal breakers for me, unless they overcome, like Dollzone.

I really tend to take issue with bad business practices, especially rudeness towards customers. The Demon Garden saga has forever turned me off to them, same with CCC. I'm grateful a place like DoA exists, otherwise we wouldn't be able to learn about what companies have done to various people, I would have been ticked off completely had I bought, say a DG body or CCC doll without knowing about the drama!

I have to say the Elfdoll thing irked me - not to the point where I'd find a thread and rant about it, I was just slightly miffed for a moment. I missed the sign ups, so I'm out of the loop - however I don't think I'd join even if they re-opened membership. I dunno, it just rubbed me the wrong way, kinda tarnished the dolls for me when I see them.

As for Custom House - this one is just sad. CH was the very first company I heard of some 7 or 8 years ago, long before I could ever afford my first doll, and I remember just being in awe of the gorgeous limiteds and array of beautiful products. So I was really surprised to find it completely different when I joined DoA a couple of years ago. I had been hoping to have one of the older, cooler, more high quality dolls of theirs, but not anymore.

 

No, I don't think it would affect the specific doll I owned, but if, hypothetically I found out my doll was a re-cast of another company's doll, then yes. I'd probably get kind of disgusted... :P

 

Stella M., I think you have always sounded perfectly nice - and I've read many of your posts. And I think we're pretty much on the same page.

And, ya know, I think CCC has been a perfect cad, but I have to admit I would be sorely tempted by several of his sculpts on the secondary market. Flexible ethics...

 

It may sound strange, but if I found out that a company I had a doll from a company that did something horrendous then I wouldn't dislike the doll, I would feel bad for it and most likely make a photostory where said doll laments about the fall of their "birth company". For me, it would kind of be akin to finding out the hospital I was born in started doing illegal organ harvesting. I would be freaked out, and definitely wouldn't go back to them for treatment, but it wouldn't taint me as a person. Does that make sense?
Anyway, I would like to thank the people who started this thread and posted stuff. Up until, oh, an hour or two ago I was seriously considering buying one of the CCC doll, then I decided to troll some forums and BAM! My eyes have been opened. Perhaps I should read more on this site then the photostories. ^_^
And Tumble, I think it's definitely OK to get the CCC dolls second hand. After all, it's not like you are sending money to this Charles bastard, and you would most likely be helping people who are not leeches. There ya go! Now your ethics can stop flexing and you can buy a second hand CCC guilt free :P

I do have a question, though. What did this Dollk or Dolk company do?

 

Yes, most of my CCC's are second hand, and so full of life, and I know that this person who has been doing all this really sick stuff for 10 months now to his customers somehow created these animate incredible dolls. I have to say though that for some reason I have the hardest time bonding to my second hand ones. I so want to love them, I marvel at them, but somehow I sense him behind these sculpts and what he has been doing to so many and what made these just do not line up.

Yoshi was of his sister, a fairy tale... Its for some reason hardest for me with the second hand sculpts I do not know why. I know like I said, Tiggy who is my favorite doll, has tackled stuff directly in many ways, including disowning her "Darth Evader MoldyMort Father" and doing alot to help others on her blog and elsewhere.

The damaged Fuuga coming to me when so many were already waiting has been almost impossible to either let go of, or bond to, The others which are second hand I try, and yet I see Charles in these, and I do not understand how the person who has been doing all these things could have made these. The only other one that I have bonded reasonably well to is the mole I got from DDE to help sell the overstock of unface upped dolls he sent them (after months of wrangling and so much work to even get that damn partial shipment finally mailed, and then having to help out when they were freaked by all these no faceupped dolls and the ones who needed to be fixed and hooking DDE up with who could help with these things too)

The Firefly Fairy thread is a refuge which nearly tore apart over all this. We know that picturing our dolls makes them more desireable and its taken alot of united effort to keep that thread a refuge, open and welcoming to all, even the many who do not have fireflies because of all this, to keep that thread one thing that Charles has not been able to take from us.

But some have left, because they want to believe in and hope in Charles. Or they are too dismayed by the whole thing, or feel too terrible about having a firefly when so many are still waiting.

Its been devastating because it isnt just the dolls themselves. Its the community which formed around the dolls. My life would be so very different if Tiggy had never come into it, and I had never gotten this incredible sense of community, and belonging and the touchpoint that the the firefly community and thread just is.

I remain in the CCC waiting room because more than all the jerking around that Charles has done by witholding these dolls, its the loss of community that he has kept so many from.

Maybe you will not understand what I am talking about, but some will.

The horrible irony of the waiting room is that Charles chose to withhold dolls from those who supported him through all the pleas for understanding, we waited past the possible dates to file for refunds. Even now, these people just want their dolls. Dolls that every so often Charles will suddenly surface, indirectly through someone else and let us know he has and "they are all shipping out next week"

Its a sort of limbo rollercoaster that is too excruciating to even describe. So somehow we just have been through too much to be able to approach this discussion from purely cerebral and or philosophical conceptualizations. We live these very questions each day, and so far, there really just is no end in sight of whether or not these dolls will ever come.

You cant just walk away because you dont want to abandon those who are waiting, so we go on and on and on, and in the Netherlands is a man who created beautiful things, who somewhere along the way decided that the dolls are his currency, and he just will not send what he owes people unless he has no choice.

Suddenly last week the people who got false tracking numbers two months ago, a few got notices, the rest just suddenly checked and the packages were mailed around May 31st, so clearly Charles has some contact with the waiting room and is aware that legally he cannot get away with never sending the dolls that had tracking numbers. But many of us have accounts that never changed from payment verified, so we do not know.

A terrible limbo. Each time we have some hope, it is dashed and then raised and then dashed and its a bloody nightmare trying to cope with laws that just will only go so far and after many calls to authorities, and filings with various agencies, we keep hitting walls.

So I wish all this was merely philosophical, but I live this one daily, and I do not know what it will take to end this. Because of what Tiggy has brought into my life however, I will not stop trying to get the rest of everyones dollls, even though after months of this I just am so burned out I cant even describe it.

And every week or day there is some new bizarre twist to all this...much of it we cannot put on thread, so please forgive my just venting a bit here.

Some of you did hop over and offered good suggestions, and support. This is incredibly appreciated, and hopefully we will in time figure out what it takes to just get these dolls home.
Thank you.