"Those Anime Dolls"- Does the connection bother you?

Really? Huh, I didn't know that. I'll have to go ask the husband if he's heard of them. Thanks!

I wonder if all the hoopla is because "anime" is being used as a negative connotation? Like saying "Oh that's just some lame anime doll"? It really shouldn't be. While I've seen some anime styles that look like a 5-year-old helped, I've seen some truly beautiful stuff too. And, like many things, it took me awhile before I could appreciate the beauty. Now I notice things like linework, color, depth, detail, etc.

Same thing with dolls. At first glance many of them do have an anime "flavor". But after awhile I started to admire all the small details. Now I see them as being anime-born, but still having their own style.

 

Personally, I believe that ABJDs are NOT anime characters unless they are officially released as specific anime characters by the doll company in collaboration with the anime producers. I am not bothered by associating ABJDs with anime. I also collect vintage American and British plastic dolls (NOT Barbies). ABJDs are highly influenced by anime. For example, Howl is actually named Howl by Luts although he is not wizard Howl from Howl's Moving Castle because his release is not in collaboration with Studio Ghibli. Yuu from Dollzone is an assasin with a cross shaped scar on his face but he is named Yuu and not Kenshin although Kenshin fans can see the connection immediately.

I found BJDs through anime. I am deeply disappointed I am not able to find my dream doll, a SD size Rurouni Kenshin (Samurai X) officially released as Rurouni Kenshin by a Japanese company. I think Rurouni Kenshin is copyrighted by Watsuki Nobuhiro/Jump Comics/Shueisha/Sony Pictures Entertainment/Fugi TV.

Since I'm not able to find my dream doll, I've learned to accept BJDs for who they are. My first doll Isao Nanjou was bought for who he is and not because he reminds me of any anime character. Isao is a darling, he told me to buy him a red wig so that he can wear it and then I can pretend he is Kenshin. I told him not to worry too much, he only needs to be himself. He said to buy the F-38 because that doll will make me very happy.

 

ummm... sounds like a lot of people think that anime is strictly from japan. i'm not going to say that there's someone out there who does this best but i find myself more attracted to korean animes nowadays. so just cuz certain sculpts are from korea, doesn't mean that they're not influenced by anime.

and let's not forget that there will alway be some stupid people out there who are going to say stupid things... like the person who saw one miyazaki film and now proclaim themselves as "otaku" - like the guy who saw my SAILOR MERCURY pin (i'd consider her a recognisable character) and thought she was sen (WTF?). and it's people like that who annoy me, not just cuz they're completely clueless about bjd, but because they're clueless about everything.

i think what idrisfynn said summed it up best for me cuz i applaud the following...

standing ovation...

 

Anime might be an influence on BJD -- but it isn't the only influence. It's ignorant of someone to uphold that BJD = purely, or even substantially, anime dolls. Just as many people are pointing out that Barbie is Western and therefore less of an "anime doll," didn't they put out several Sailor Moon dolls years ago?

But I think we need to go a bit farther back than that. That said, although we're talking about ABJD, and although you'd be hardpressed to find the information these days, I do believe that VOLKS first came up with Ball Jointed Dolls (not necessarily Dollfie Dream) after seeing/hearing about the Ball Jointed Dolls some Westerner (A Scotsman, maybe?) made.

Personally, it does irk me -- even if just a tad. I'm not into anime with the squeaky voices and big explosions. Even Miyazaki, though I love his work, makes me want to turn down the volume. I know there are a lot of anime out there that aren't like that -- and that's a good thing. Although I shouldn't let it irk me -- emotions aren't quite like our brains. They don't think and they're highly illogical. So, regardless, it still irks me. As do the connotations that one who likes ABJD and has one or a few must love all forms of anime and know all about it!!! ← I get this all the time, and in public places like the movie theater, etc., when with other collectors. Although I'll probably never see the people who overheard in that place again, it still smarts that someone I don't know will have an opinion of me based on ill-founded hearsay, simply because I own a few dolls. I have other kinds of dolls, too -- porcelain, Batman figures, and the like. But I'm one of those people who is of the strong opinion that hobbies should be kept at home or in private with other hobbyists -- not thrown about with abandon in public...

That's only my opinion, though. If you don't want people to talk smack about what you like, just don't bring it up or give them reason to start talking. It's a bit harsh of a way to look at it, maybe, but it works for the most part.

[/pointless rant]

 

Well, I like anime and all, but the connection irritates me a little. I did find find BJDs through my interest in anime/manga/ect, but they really aren't "anime dolls" at all. I said something about not caring too much for the dolls with huge eyes, and a tiny nose and mouth to a friend of mine and she said "Well, they are anime dolls."

I won't pitch a fit about the connection, but it does bug me a little and I try to politely correct people who make the assumption.

 

Honestly, i don't see how anyone could be upset. So many people i've met that are seeing the dolls for the first time, look at them and immediately notice the 'japanese aesthetic". I do tell people that most are designed in a similar aesthetic as Manga or Anime. I'll be honest...Alot of people are alot LESS creeped out by a "manga or anime' doll, than just a grown person carrying around a random doll. I think if I were carrying around an "American Girl" doll, as compared to my BJD, i'd get some SERIOUS stares. But when people notice the Japanese aesthetic, they seem to be a bit more understanding.

And yes, while "anime" can be construed by some non-fans as something for losers, the same could be said for MANY hobbies or interests that have negative connetations. For example...

Star Trek is often construed as a fandom for losers with no life...which i think sux.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (which has actually had it's own cons now)
Anime/Manga (as stated above)
Comic books
Video Games
And even particular shows with a huge following like Heroes.

It all comes down to judgemental nature and ignorance.

I love Star Trek, (most of the shows anyways), I was a HUGE Buffy fan, Heroes is an obsession of mine, I'm an Avid video gamer, and comic reader. I also love anime, and now i'm into BJD. LOL I guess i'm just a big loser without hope of ever being 'normal'. But i don't wanna be normal. That's boring. LOL

If everyone in the world liked the same thing, the world would be a very boring place, and we'd have no interest in anyone around us.

Actually, BJD have been around for god-only-knows how long. I've seen some on the Antique's road show that were LITERALLY hundereds of years old, and made of wood. There was a guy who had one that dated back nearly 300 years. Alot of them were German, and French. Volks just took an existing type of doll and spun their twist on it. Nothing really original about it other than the aesthetic that they put on it. BJD are not a recent thing whatsoever. however, ABJD are definately more recent. So in all honesty, Volks didn't come up with anything. They just redesigned something that already existed.

 

I cannot deny that I see a connection between my dollfie dream dolls and anime XD

 

Of course they aren't strictly anime dolls and that's something bjd folks are probably well aware of, though non bjd people proably aren't going to necessarily know better. However, the influence from anime/manga is still there. Even if Barbie did put out a Sailer Moon doll (I'm not aware if they did or didn't so I'll take your word for it), stylistically Barbie still has nothing to do with anime or manga as compared to abjd.

Yes, ball jointed dolls were produced in Europe for a long time prior to Volks. However, they style of the sculpts Volks chose to do have been considerably different than their European predecessors. The style of Volks sculpts was heavily influenced by their figure kits that they had been making before they started producing Super Dolfies. So the jointing system was influences by European dolls, but the aesthetic qualities of the sculpts were influenced by anime.

Sometimes we feel what we feel, and most people would probably prefer not to have assumptions made about them, yet it's also part of life. Even if people take out all the connotations to anime instant dolly respect is not necessarily going to be forth coming. Lots of people have goofy ideas about dolls and doll owners without bringing other hobbies into it. I'm sure lots of folks here have run into at least some of these: If you're a woman then you must be into dolls because of your maternal instincts; If you're a guy then you must be gay or a pedophile; Adults who play with dolls are immature; How could someone spend that much on a doll?!; Your dolls are really creepy ewww! and so on and so on and so on. If it isn't one thing it will always be another.

I don't care that people aren't into anime just like I don't really care if someone isn't into modding or doing their own faceups. However, when people carry on about how they shouldn't have to pay for a default faceup or that they are *gasp* expected to sand their own seams it irks me. Same way that when people deny any connection to anime I get irked. Some things are a part of the hobby, at least to an extent. Not everybody has to personally like it, but to deny that those connections exist is like trying to rewrite bjd history and make the hobby into something that it isn't. I admit that I don't get that--if it's so offensive to some folks (not you necessasarily--speaking generally here), then why be here? Why not just accept some things as fact (because they are) and move on to whatever part of the hobby you like best?

 

Eh, ignorant people say ignorant things. It'll always be that way. I'm not going to blow up in someone's face for assuming my doll is from this and this anime. Sometimes I find responses to my doll amusing and sometimes I just shrug it off. The doll community is still very small at this point compared to other hobbies and fandoms, so I really don't expect anyone to know much about them. So if someone calls my boy an "anime doll" I'd be like "whatever." I even call Larue a "dollfie" even though he's technically not a Japanese doll. Dollfie, bjd, doll...same difference. (seriously, someone corrected me on that subject once...I was like "wtf").

I also like anime and video games and the like, but that's not a direct reason I got into bjds. I just happen to be a fan and I happen to like dolls. ^^'

 

THis is basically what I am trying to say.

I understand that plenty of BJD sculpts have been influenced by anime but what I am trying to express that not all of BJDs are influenced by them. Also, what one person interprets as looking like an anime character is personal opinion as shown the Barbie vs. Sard example. It's all in personal opinion. There is no set answer.

To insinuate that I am in denial because I don't find much of a connection between BJDs in general and anime, that's a bit harsh, don't you think. Sure, certain companies and dolls do have a connection but that doesn't mean ALL BJDs do.

People see what they want to see. It's pure human nature. If you like anime, you are more likely to see a connection between your dolls and anime. If you don't, like me, you are less likely to find a connection.

 

That depends on what you mean...if you mean are the majority of bjds made to be anime characters--then no, of course they aren't. But a bjd doesn't have to be made to be specific character to be influenced by the style. It's like looking at any school of art: If you look at impressionist painters, each painter will be different, but yet there will still be traits consistent through out different artists' works that place them in the same group. Abjds are like that and so is manga/anime styled artwork.

People see what they want to see to an extent, but sometimes there are things that are genuinely there that they are missing. Just because they don't/don't want to see that it's there, doesn't mean that it isn't. These stylistic similarities really are there--if they weren't, then A. a lot of the assumptions about abjds and anime wouldn't exist and B. this board would be for all Asian dolls with ball joints, which it clearly isn't. There is aesthetic criteria at work that overlaps with what tends to be a very manga-esque style. The melding of that anime style with ball jointed dolls did not begin as some kind of coincidence.

That anime look was intentionally done by Volks who started out making figure kits. CP also sculpts anime figures, Gentaro Araki is also a hentai artist, I believe? Various companies put out specific anime characters (Blue Fairy Automail Jerome (Edward Elric)) and so on. Companies are also influenced by what other companies are doing, so some of those stylistic traits spread. No, many dolls aren't meant to be specific characters, and some companies may be more influenced by this than others, but when you step back and look at the hobby as a whole and its evolution, it has been influenced by anime quite a bit--it is how the whole thing began, after all. There is only so much of this that is actually debatable.

I think you are operating off of some assumptions--one is that art styles within anime/manga are very similar to each other and have very stereotypical traits (it consists of giant eyes and pointy chins), when there is really more variety than you realize. This kills your arguments that the less stereotypical anime type dolls (as opposed to early Volks sculpts/Dolfie Dreams) have nothing in common with anime. The other is that the connections to anime are more subjective in nature, when in fact there is a lot of evidence otherwise that anyone knowing the history of this hobby and some of the companies would know.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but I don't agree with where you're coming from and you haven't given me any logical reasons that hold up for me to agree with what you've been suggesting. You admit that you don't like anime and therefore you don't see the connections, however what that says is that you don't like anime so therefor you are ignoring the connections (or to give you the benefit of the doubt again, you aren't aware of them since you aren't very familiar with the art style), because they are there for all to see.

With the anime influences plainly there, then it is no wonder non-bjd people assume they are related to anime.

 

I wouldn't know about BJDs if it weren't for Anime, so the connection doesn't bother me in the slightest. I just explain to people that they aren't "anime dolls" if they are really interested.

 

It doesn't bother me at all. So what if they're connected, they kind of inevitably will as they carry the anime-esque aesthetic, they come from asia, etc etc, but I don't see it as a bad thing. I'm not a raving anime fan myself, I read some manga casually but I don't watch anime, but I'm not ashamed or bothered by the connection.
I dunno, it just seems like being offended would be an overreaction, kind of like you're being over defensive.

 

I don't like the Sard vs. Barbie argument, personally. It's like using Final Fantasy VII characters from the movie and saying there is absolutely no relation to anime. Yes, the characters have a certain amount of realism, but once one is familiar with anime and the japanese aesthetic, the connection to anime is undeniable. Realism can still be influenced by specific styles. There is such an obvious influence. Even the smallest eyes that I've seen (excluding Minimees) are still too large to be truly realistic in this Asian BJD aesthetic.

I would be impressed if someone displayed enough knowledge to recognize the Japanese influence in the aesthetic of my dolls. I would hope they would understand the dolls had more meaning and depth besides the anime-relation, but I don't think it really affects how I enjoy the hobby, so it doesn't particularly matter to me. We already battle the conception of childishness for collecting dolls, and that expectation of strangeness. Battling an apparent connection doesn't make sense to me.

 

... And when the weeaboos get sick of taking crap from the bigots, then they'll co-opt THAT word and make it their own-- like "geek", "bitch", "queer", and so many other slurs before. That's exactly as it should be. It's one of the best ways to disarm an enemy: eat their weapons & prove them harmless. After that, then the haters will have to come up with yet another derogatory term. And so on. Until they just learn to shut their fool mouths, & not call kettles black.

I don't care who calls me weird or finds my hobbies unacceptable, because (a) I'm too old for peer pressure, and (b) many so-called "normal" habits & hobbies seem verrry bizarre to me. What is so "normal" about paying $100 to have someone pour hot wax on your Happy Place & then rip it off in the shape of a Hitler-moustache? Isn't that just a TAD obsessive? Where does some spray-tan Botox bitch with a hideous $1400 handbag get off saying my priorities are messed up? I'm not sensitive about being associated with squealing anime teenyboppers, but I can't stand the fact that I am technically the same gender & species as those creatures. Guh. Give me a shrieky little bubblegum-breath newbie Inuyasha-freak anyday. (Besides: Today's irritating newbie anime-otaku chicks are tomorrow's elder stateswomen & keepers of the flame. Deep down, I can't help but feel oddly protective of the hypersonic little critters.)

Exactly-- I almost feel like congratulating them & giving them a doggie biscuit. "My, what a big word, 'anime'! Did somebody teach you that word on the TV today? Good girl!" [*pat pat*] With the quality of humanity around here lately, I'd be impressed if they even recognized a doll as "looking anime-like", or knew to use the term "dollfie"-- because it'd mean that s/he had once actually paid attention to something outside their immediate circle of influence, and might even be able to identify Japan on a map (or at least Canada). But I wouldn't waste my breath trying to educate such a person on the stylistic nuances between manga vs manhwa, or how only Volks makes true 'Dollfies', or how ABJD aren't always anime-themed... face it, they just don't care. Give 'em a shorthand answer & get on with your day.

 

i have a kind of mixed opinion.
i don't mind it because at least they know it is in fact asian
but it does bug me that they get lumped in with a million people in america who like/love anime
possibly assuming that EVERYONE has one when in fact they don't
on account of the price and up keep.

 

Maybe it's living in Seattle, but Japan has always been a part of my life... There were always plenty of mysterious and beautiful Japanese antiques around, glass net floats washing ashore at the beach, eating crispy nori at my mom's friend's house... learning Japanese words. Anime too was around (in my life) from the time I was 6 or so (I'm 41 now) and I loved the delicacy and grace of the images, the big-eyed girls and pretty colors. Something about Japan has always felt like home to me. So when BJD came along, it wasn't culture-shock to me at all, it was like coming home in the doll world!

I remember when Licca and Jenny were impossible to get, how I'd lust hopelessly after Takara You dolls that A Glenn Mandeville would write about in the old days of Doll Reader. Super Dollfie is that much better!

I can't imagine anyone having a problem with the anime/Japan connection and if they do it's their problem! Let them eat Himstedt (lol)!

Raven

 

It's because of anime I am even into BJD, I was into baby dolls but once I found BJD 3 years ago I was hooked. I named all of my BJD now after characters in Fruits Basket my #1 fav anime. So even with my name I do not mind if people think I have the dolls because of anime or vise versa.

 

Doesn't bother me... but I am an anime fan. However, I'm also a fan of MANY aspects of Japanese pop-culture. Anime was where I started, but now I'm a fan of Japanese music, street fashion, live action movies, cult cinema, AND dolls! People just think they're "anime dolls" because they DO resemble anime characters due to the Asian aesthetics, and that's just the only Japanese or Asian thing that's even close to being mainstream enough for most people to say "Ah, that's what that is."