"Those Anime Dolls"- Does the connection bother you?

Personally, it doesn't bother me too much. seeing as the general public doesn't have widespread knowledge of what ABJD's are, it's acceptable to me. The thing that does tick me off is when the lump 'em in with Chucky.

Then again, not all ABJD fans are anime/manga enthusiasts. If I was not into anime and manga, I could see how this would tick me off.

PNdering at the fact it was from a manga magazine I first discovered BJD's I can see where the general public comes from.

Just my two cents.

 

Admittedly, I learned about BJDs at Anime Vegas, a few years ago. Whe I first saw them, I though they were interesting, but when I asked the price, and was told $200+, I got completely turned off from them. I thought it was insane. Recently, a friend of a friend, ironically enough, had one for the same convention the next year. I started liking them, although I had forgotten about the whole price and stuff.
I was researching goth lolita not too long ago, and somehow got referred to the Volks website. Instant love. I saw the dollfies first, and liked them until I realized you had to paint on the eyes, and they looked Anime-ish. I googled BJDs, and found Dream of Doll.

Until I read this rant, I didn't even realize that BJDs were so often connected to anime... I don't think they should be, at least, non-anime realted ones. I didn't even know you could get a BJD that was Anime themed until recently...
If my post was too off topic, just tell me, and I'll edit it...

 

I never said anything that disagreed with this. Duh, there are influences. What I was saying that while THERE ARE present influences from anime in BJDs, I personally don't think it's obvious enough to someone who has no knowledge of BJDs and there origin to automatically connect them with anime. To a person who knows that BJDs come from east asia, I could understand that person making that particular generalization, but I'm talking about someone who has no idea where BJDs come from. The person could be assuming the doll comes from the USA for all it matters. I have a hard time believing that if you went up to a person who had no prior knowledge of BJDs and showed them a more realistic mold, (just using Sard as an example here again) that they would automatically call it an "anime doll." While the influences are often present, they are not commonly obvious enough to the average non-doll person to recognize.

Okay, you've said this several times and insinuated that I simply do not know about anime. I'll clear this up. I have watched plenty of anime and read plenty of manga throughout my life. Tons actually. I know plenty about it but I *gasp* just do not like it much. I don't detest it, but I'm not fond of it either. I only made the statement about big eyes and pointy chins as a generalizing of the stereotypical anime character. I'm well aware that there are tons of anime characters that don't fit that criteria in the slightest. The reason I said that is because that is how many western people recognize anime. I never said that, that is the only way an anime character appears. I just used it as a generalization.

I am VERY aware of the art style once again and I'm not ignoring the connections. There are connections. I'm not denying that. I just said that I don't think the connections are obvious enough for someone who is not familiar with BJDs to make the assumption that these dolls are tied to anime. Yes, I did say that I do not approve of the connection, but that does not mean I'm condemning people who do see one. It's your opinion if you see a connection. I don't have a problem if people do see a connection because 99.99% of the time, it does not affect me in any way possible. I couldn't care less. But if someone came up to me IRL and asked if one of my dolls was "one of those anime dolls," I would have to tell them that they were not marketed as such and any connection to anime is in the eyes of the beholder.


When I say BJDs aren't anime dolls, I am stating that they were never marketed as such. BJD companies aren't going "Hey, this doll looks like your favorite anime character!" You'd be hard pressed to find any form of anime mentioned on most BJD companies websites. When someone says "anime doll" I picture a model figure that is clearly labeled as a certain anime character and marketed as such. Pullip has done several anime dolls and has more in the works. Those are anime dolls. Volks' Rozen Maiden line, those are anime dolls. Soom Sard? Not an anime doll. Influenced by anime? I personally don't think so but I'll give you that one, sure. The point is that he was not marketed with any connection to anime and shouldn't have a big "anime doll" sticker slapped on his pretty (very, very pretty) little forehead.

 

If you feel I haven't understood you, then you need to go back and make your points better. There are influences, they are pretty darn obvious, and the whole point of this thread is non-abjd people who think they are "anime dolls." Doesn't that tell you something? People throughout this thread (and elsewhere on the board from time to time) comment that random non-doll people will ask if they are anime dolls, so clearly a fair number of people do see those influences, so they must be more obvious than you give it credit for.

But if all you ever talk about is the big eyes and pointy chins then it appears that you are not aware of what anime and manga encompass. If you are aware of anime and manga beyond those generalizations then it shouldn't be so surprising that people draw connections between abjds and anime. The impression you give in this thread is that you want to distance yourself and dolls from anime (to not be seen as one of those 'anime dorks', I believe you put it?), have spoken frequently in generalizations, and have been arguing that stylistic similarities to anime are tenuous at best, and have stated that it's not something you like (which doesn't actually bother me. I don't care if people like it or not as long as they aren't rude about it). So, I'm sorry if I misjudged you, but the picture you painted was that of someone who wasn't aware of what was out there beyond the most general idea. Considering some people aren't at all interested and really aren't aware (which is not a crime btw), I'm not sure of how I was supposed to think otherwise. Frankly, my mind reading skills really suck, so all I have to go on is what you give me

And yet people do, so clearly you are somewhat off there in your expectations. There seems to be a disconnect between what you say is there and what a lot of other people (including non bjd folks) see.

It's not really about approving or disapproving it's about whats there or not there. The connections are genuinely there, so the person asking about the "anime doll" is not entirely incorrect--they clearly don't have all the info, but they are seeing an influence in the style that is actually there. There is a valid reason for the assumption. If it really was purely in the eye of the beholder there really wouldn't be much to debate about--there would be no right or wrong, just preference. However, that is not the case here.

I've never actually said bjds are "anime dolls"--they have strong anime influence, but most aren't not strictly related. Most people on this board know that, non-abjd people probably won't. Earlier you said that assumption would be "pure ignorance", but because the influences are there it's really not. Saying "anime doll" is a clumsy way for a non-abjd person to try and describe this new thing they are seeing that is anime influenced. See what I mean? This is what I and a lot of other people have been saying. We know that most bjds aren't marketed to be specific anime characters, but you can't say there isn't a connection between bjds and anime either. It's that connection that non abjd people are picking up on. Even though many abjds are not marketed to specifically be "anime dolls" the anime influence is there, the connections are there, abjds and anime are not entirely unrelated and therefor it should not be surprising or upsetting that people assume a relationship between the two.

 

Hello Taco and imhitomi,

I brought my Isao Nanjou doll to church, people in my local church know nothing about ABJDs and Japanese anime although they know about vintage German/European ball jointed dolls. When they saw my doll, they were first surprised to see a doll in the form of a beautiful young man, then, they thought he is porcelain. After finding out he a resin ball jointed doll from Japan, they asked to hold him and was surprised by his weight, he is heavy. They loved his outfit, of course, I dress him appropriately for church. They asked for his name, I had to spell Isao because that sounds like Esau in the bible. They were amused and I can almost hear the pastor's silent objections. They did not associate the doll with Japanese anime because they don't know much about anime. They were very surprised he is made in Japan. They thought he was made in Europe or America.

On a different occasion, I brought Isao to my company function. People know I'm into anime and they know about anime artform and styles. They immediately asked me which anime character is this doll from and his name. I had to explain he is not an anime character but his design is influenced by anime. I dressed him in his original outfit for this function. I would have loved it if he were an anime character but he is not.

So whether people associate BJDs with anime or not depends on how much they actually know about anime and ABJDs. I don't mind explaining to people and I even enjoy the conversations.

Anime characters are copyrighted by writers, artists, production companies etc. I have 12" anime character doll figures, they are marked appropriately on their boxes and copyrighted by both the doll/figure company and anime production company.

 

I think that people will associate things with what they think they know. Also, what I understand is that there are a lot of culturally unaware people. I just don't get why some get so angry over a cultural competency issue? I say, hand them a Haute Doll magazine or direct them to a BJD website and move on.

 

THIS. This is exactly my point. Some people will quickly connect BJDs to anime whereas others might never make the connection. It's not right or wrong. It's whether or not THE INDIVIDUAL PERSON sees the resemblence.

 

My point is that it's not just in the eye of the beholder--just because someone isn't aware of something (and some people really have had no exposure to anime) that doesn't mean that something doesn't exist. Therefor for you to say there is hardly any connection to anime--which I believe you said in your second post on this topic--is incorrect whether or not you believe the connection to be weak. See what I mean? In other words you're treating this like it's no more than a personal preference when it's obviously something more.

There's two different things going on here:

1)what actually exists in terms of connections to anime
2)what people unfamiliar with anime and/or unfamiliar with dolls are likely to notice

It doesn't particularly matter if people see a strong resemblance or not *except* that some people get huffy when people see a connection. My point in all of this is that the connection shouldn't be an issue, because it's a valid one (this is the point of the topic--is it a valid assumption to make, does it bother you, etc). If someone is going to argue against that or tell me it's all in the eye of the beholder, then I will disagree with them--not because I'm trying to be difficult--but because noting a relationship between the two is actually not just a valid personal opinion, but because it is factually correct (at least to an extent--some people might carry it too far).

I don't care if people make some kind of instant connection to anime or not, but I do care when people go around insisting that it's barely (if at all) related and getting upset because someone notices something that is plainly there. It's sort of like saying there's hardly a connection because I don't happen to notice it and I don't want it to be there--which is an argument that's full of holes.


(btw, I hope you don't think I'm being nasty or harsh, because I'm not--I just like to debate. It's nothing personal, I promise you)

 

I don't really see anything offensive in someone thinking my dolls are 'anime dolls.' I mean the vast majority of bjds could easily fit (stylistically) in various anime or japanese video games. I can only think of a small handfull that wouldn't (naripon toadstool, unidoll Ark, etc...). To think people who know a little about anime ONLY know big-eyed shojo is just not correct. That used to be true when things like sailor moon were popular but now it's things like Deathnote, fullmetal alchemist, soul eater, etc...a wider range of styles. If someone thinks your doll is an 'anime doll' that doesn't neccesarily mean they think it looks like sailor moon anymore.

 

To say that something doesn't reference a certain style because you ask someone who is ignorant of that influence and they said it doesn't is a bit of a fallacious argument.

If I showed someone a series of photographs painted over in colour like Andy Warhol's famous Marilyn Monroe portraits, and they said it reminded them of something else because they'd never heard of Andy Warhol.... it doesn't mean the photos aren't taking a stylistic influence from Warhol just because someone who knows nothing of him doesn't know enough to make the connection.

It's a really strange argument that because some people who don't know what anime is didn't think the doll looked like anime, it doesn't. What were they supposed to do, spontaneously imagine the idea, history, and name of anime, which they knew nothing about beforehand, to describe this stylized doll? : /

 

Lol, ditto. I'm a debater and planning on going to law school, haha.

 

I don't have one yet, but I wouldn't be offended at all anyway. I'm a big anime/manga/Japan geek and it's the reason I was first introduced to these dolls. I actually, despite my anime-nerd-dom, don't like the dolls that look anime very much. I collect figures and gashapon for that style. I prefer the dolls that have a more original and slightly realistic feel to them

 

erm I am one of those people who do make the connection to anime.
I think it's because the first time I saw a real one was at a con and yes, to be honest, their outfits and hair and often boy x boy action is very much like how an anime character might turn out in super awesome RL doll form.

Surprisingly though I don't like dolls whom are based on an anime character. I love let's say..Serena from Sailor moon but I don't think I'd want a doll of her if luts came out with her as a limited. If I did it'd be for show, not playing with.

But yerh, I think that got a bit off topic. No I'm not peeved at the people that make the connection, I always see it as a natural connection, based on m y experiance. People who are into dolls are often into anime as well though so what can yuo expect? No offense to those ont into it and everything.

 

This is the crux of it for me too. Whether or not you LIKE the connection between anime-style aesthetic & BJD, the connection is still valid (and it ain't going away).

And the shoe is no more pleasant when worn on the other foot: If you go to anime conventions nowadays, you'll run into plenty of anime otaku who are irritated & disgusted to be associated with Those Creepy Doll People.

Those people can just suck it up and deal with it, too. Same as I have to deal with the risk of being associated with the supremely irritating Gwen Stefani, merely because we both happen to be female homo sapiens who have Italian surnames and are often located in California. I have about as much in common with her as "Death Note" has with a Dollfie Dream-- but the connection is still there (thanks a lot, God).

That's an excellent analogy. Beats hell out of my anti-Stefani rant.

 

And amusingly enough, fellow Kenshin fan, I have the Volks limited edition, officially sprinkled with holy water and blessed by all sides, Kenshin doll.

And he's off-topic for this forum

Now THAT's an "anime doll."


I'm amused by the "but most of the dolls are made in Korea" comments. Wade through the credits on a whole fat lot of the current anime. You'll notice a preponderance of Korean names.

My point, if there is one, is that sweeping generalizations based on incomplete knowledge are never a good thing.

 

I’m kind of confused by the people posting in this thread who seem to think that “one of those anime dolls” = “character doll,” when I’m fairly sure that what is meant is closer to “a doll in the aesthetic style associated with anime”!

It’s true that only a few companies have released dolls that are specifically associated with specific series or characters. It’s also true that not everything that comes from Japan is manga, and that not all manga/manhwa (? New term for me—I’m guessing it’s Korean manga?) comes from Japan. But I think the connection that makes people go “Oh, is that one of those anime dolls?” is something different from assuming the doll is based on a particular character—it’s about the overall aesthetic, and although the hobby is broader now and there are sculpts that look less classically “anime,” I still see an ongoing connection aesthetically that has nothing to do with whether or not a sculpt is *meant* to look like Ishida Uryuu.

 

I think there's a HUGE overlap in the two fandoms.

So many ABJD owners are also anime fans. The aesthetic is there, and so many companies have run anime based dolls. On the flip side, so many anime fans wish they could own ABJD, because of the massive amount of them you see at anime cons and within the anime general fandom.

Sure, it's easy enough that there are plenty of non-anime fans who own ABJDs, but the aesthetic is undeniably there with the bigger companies. The big eyes, small mouth, the goth/punk clothing that most companies offer in droves. It's all very much the same look that most mainstream anime carries.

So it's sort of natural that someone who sees both, and doesn't know much about either, would make that connection. If anything, I wouldn't even consider that ignorant. I would consider it observant that they noticed the likeness and tried to connect it to something they probably are a little more familiar with.

 

I discovered BJD through an art site (DeviantArt so I for one didn't discover the dolls via anime, although I do enjoy a handful of anime/manga, I wouldn't say I was a mega fan.

It does annoy me a tiny bit when someone groups all these together as just 'that japanese stuff' or even 'those anime things'. Not everything from Japan has to do with Anime.

It only really annoys me when the culprit is obviously clueless and doesn't want to be informed, and simply is just being annoying for the sake of it, if you get what I mean.

Plus, my Luna hasn't really got a typical Animesque face anyway. That, and the fact that she was born OOCly(made) in CHINA.

 

I think there is an overlap between the two fandoms, and this is coming from someone who fell for BJDs because of their poseability and customisation facets, rather from a love of anime or manga. The nearest I get to those things is Pokémon and I've seen a few episodes of Full Metal Panic! I'm not into anime, so if someone asked me if my doll was 'one of those anime dolls', I'd have to say no.

However, having a passing familiarity with anime, I can see a connection with the earlier BJDs, there are facial and body similarities between drawn anime characters and sculpted dolls. My dolls aren't anime dolls, but I couldn't deny that there is a similarity because there clearly is.

 

I'm completely unbothered by the association of BJDs with anime. I'm not big into anime myself, but the very first BJDs I saw were Isao Nanjou and Jun Tachibana on the cover of a doll magazine at my parents' house, and I immediately could tell they were Japanese. I remember saying to my mother "They look like anime characters." It's the big eyes and small mouth, the pixie-like face and pointy noses that BJDs often have. They DO look like anime characters, even if they're not. It's just part of the Asian aesthetic.