Thoughts on a guy doll having breasts?

To Jess:

Yes I'm sure those definitions look great on paper; but the truth of the matter is that if you identify as male, you want to be recognized as male. If all you do is crossdress and say to the world, "Hey everyone I'm actually a boy!" don't expect to convince too many people.
Transgender people who don't conform to a specific gender role are most likely the ones who consider themselves a third gender and not actually male or female, which isn't bad but just isn't as traumatic for the people who have to suffer it. Those who just act like the gender they consider themselves are not FTM or MTF. FTM specifically means they are transitioning from a female body to a male body and are completely male in identification.

I do have a problem with people fetishizing this condition because 1) Most people aren't aware of what a transperson is and can be mislead to believe that it is a choice and one specifically having to do with intercourse 2) It makes light of a serious condition, "Transgender? So what? You can still live your life normally and have sex just fine right?" when the truth is most transgendered people feel bad about their bodies too much to enjoy sex and don't feel the connection to their genitals sexually gratifying when they don't even consider those body parts belonging to them 3) It makes an association between sexuality and the transgendered condition, which only applies to the gender and not the sexual preference. If a MTF came out to her parents and was also a lesbian, that girl's parents would simply think, "Well you already like girls, just stay the way you are, even if you change you won't be a real girl and no one will want you."

If you think my fabricated quotes are untrue or unrealistic, I'm going to state here that they are based on things I have actually heard people say about transgendered people in real life.

 

Crossdressing and breaking traditional gender norms on the other hand are both completely fun and highly encouraged Those aren't disorders or medical conditions, those are social statements and ways of living. Those things are choices and usually light-hearted in nature. Both have never really hurt anyone, but have sometimes offended, usually only those who take offense easily.

 

Having known my share of TGs, TVs and those of alternative sexualities (and being one myself), I don't think much of anything doll-wise can shock or offend me these days. Whether it's a guy with boobs, a girl with "something extra", or a male lesbian--it's all good.

I have occasionally embarrassed myself by thinking a male doll dressed like a girl, wearing girl makeup, with a girl hairstyle, is, well, a girl...but I don't usually check under someone's skirt or in their pants to double-check the gender. If it looks like a duck, you're kind of going to expect it to quack instead of moo, aren't you? But it's a big world and there's room for everyone. Live and let live.

 

I agree with Emby Quinn on this one! I'm really involved in the LGBT community on my campus, so nothing is really going to phase me with regards to mixing "different sexes'" heads and bodies. ^^;; It's the personal choice of the doll's owner, and all the more power to them if they want to have a transsexual/transgender/genderqueer doll.

 

But we're talking about dolls here and not real people. This is the place you're really getting tripped up. Dolls don't always equal true or realistic, or even if they do, they might not embody your exact experience (or that of someone you know). Dolls are fiction not reality. Hobbyists in this thread are not talking about fetishizing real people or saying that they don't take these issues seriously in real life.

I'm going to readily admit that when people come in an soapbox about how people's dolls aren't realistic enough portrayals of X or that you should only do X, Y or Z with your doll, it's very off putting. Who are you to decide what should be encouraged or discouraged? Or how others will react? Or what the meaning behind someone else's doll choices really is? Sometimes people need to pick their battles more carefully and really stop and ask themselves whether the doll habits of others is really worth getting up in arms about when there are much bigger things to worry about.

 

I would never do or consider it myself. But I also dont have some weird urge to feminize my poor dolls to the point of gender confusion. In fact I find it a huge turn-off and avoid those that do. I was going to continue with "unless it was on a body like the crobidoll c-line where the boy and girl have the same chest measurements" but then what would be the point since the only thing in consideration there would be the swapping of a penis for a vagina. Which I'd find ever more odd.

People can and will do what they please with their dolls, but dont get offended and huffy when I call your doll a girl.

 

I had a long reply to this typed up, but it veered very far off-topic.

In general...

1) Dressing and living as a man in a female body, and having people identify you as male, is not impossible. I've done it, albiet in cosplay. (Jake Blues, for the curious, and the only time anyone ID'd me as female was when I giggled.) My roommate is very androgynous himself, and has been called "sir" in public. (He is FTM transgender, and yes, I consider him FTM even though he plans not to have a reassignment surgery. Again, long-winded and OT.)

As someone else mentioned, you don't go looking down pants to determine someone's physical sex. How one chooses to dress can influence the perception of sex.

2) I am one of those alternate-gender types. It has taken me a lot to be comfortable being referred to in the feminine, and frankly, even if I had the body I envision myself having I'd still have to be comfortable with this. So to say it's less traumatizing for those of us who don't fit into the bigender system is ridiculous and offensive.

 

beautifully said!

I have many mod plans for many dolls and some of them are not standard MALE and FEMALE and that's because that's who they are/the art is for me. For example, I am in the process of sanding down my girl's breasts because I am a small chested woman who actually thinks small breasts look more feminine, as larger breasts are just an example of what some heterosexual males prefer to identify a woman's body as does not mean that I as a woman need to feel the same way. I'd love if there was more variation in the available mature doll bodies. At this point it seems most doll companies make only adult females with LARGE breasts and I don't find that particularly attractive. But I also don't want a doll body that has a child's body just to have smaller breasts. Full beautiful hips a tiny waist and small perky breasts have always been what I consider the most lovely features for a Lady's figure so I'm quite sure there are many others doll enthusiasts that have their own perfection ideas and ideals and those should be rejoiced in not stifled. Just my 2 cents

 

Thank you. I was going to comment but I'm horrible at expressing myself when frustrated, and figured someone else would do a better job.

 

No, that doesn't bother me one bit. It's the owners design of what they want their little doll to be and how to look. It's all creativity!

 

Whoops missed this one. What I meant was where I come from, it's not that uncommon to see transgender or transvestite males. The "West Village" specifically refers to that area of Manhattan, New York, New York, where we here in America are quite used to men with boobs. Still quite titillating though, and fascinating, to me and I am sure to many others.
I grew up on The New York Dolls, and "Take a Walk on the Wild Side", and the girls on Tenth Avenue late at night. It's part of my American culture, and heritage. There you go.

 

*slow clap*

Hooray! I was just in the zombie tinies discussion and this is pretty much the same issue. If it's a doll (art form) that YOU want to create then great! Go for it! But walking into a meet-up is liking walking to an art show, you have to expect some things are going to be creatively different that what you'd do. That's why these dolls are awesome! You can give them a life (back story) and dress them however and it's your doll, it's your art, it's what YOU want. I don't know if I'm representing horned/hooved faun monster fairies the "right" way when I make/mod them but By the flying spaghetti monster, I'll make/mod them to be my artistic vision of whatever!

 

When you look at the fact that there are gender neutral bodies, it's not that odd. There's nothing down there with those bodies, but when covered up, who's going to know? You can still have your boy be a boy or your girl be a girl when there's nothing down there, so why is it suddenly impossible when there's something down there? It's all in your head, basically. The limitations, but also the possibilities.

 

Doesn't bother me

Hmmmm, I wonder if and when transgender dolls might become available, where they have breasts and penis (post-op MTF), is it even possible to order one as custom made?

 

If you weren't comfortable doing the mods yourself, you could probably find a customizer who could do them for you. The beauty of bjds is that if the companies don't make something you want, you can always do it yourself. The possibilities are endless.

Well said. That describes exactly how I feel about doll bodies at this point. I can understand someone wanting a body that matches the sex of the character, yet at the same time it's not actually necessary depending on the body type you want.

 

I think that, especially when you have a two male characters of the same age that are supposed to have a height difference sometimes putting one of the male heads on a female body is the only way to get them to look proportionally right when next to each other. Of course, I would try to make that female body look male, because that's what his character is, but once I'd made that change, he would BE male, not any kind of transgender or such.

 

Will it bother you if a doll which is supposed to be male have a girl body?

First of all, i think that the word 'male' means a lot further than simply 'not possessing breasts/ having a penis/having a body in a certain shape' etc.
I believe it has a looot more to do with the mental side/behavior than the physical side/body.


Considering that, i guess that i don't see any problem at all, and the 'male' quality you define is imbued on the character's personality (and not on whichever kind of body the doll is using).

 

It does not bother me as long as you don't stick it in my face.

 

Good thing I read the first post- I thought you meant boy dolls with big boobies.<-- thats a whole different story. xD

I don't really see anything wrong with it. For the record, most of the male bodys are either big buff, slim buff, manly guys. (Or so i've only seen, I normally look at girl dolls) The only thing thats a little odd is that you know its a guy, but you also know it doesn't have a 'pee-pee'
I can see where the problem lies in the anatomy of the figure as well.(Not just Genitalia-) But in the structure. Like Females have wider pelvic bones then males, cause they are child bearing hips. Males have bigger shoulders cause... They were built for... shouldering!(Everything's debatable here! ^^; )
But what im trying to get at is that people will make the connection that is it a girl if they see the curves and hips.

 

I think this is very well-said also.

Though I am an exacting person and will go to lengths to have a doll match the character as much as possible, from eye color to weird ears to blue paint job, and this includes gender- like I am planning to take a boy body and remove the penis for Yasumi because Yasumi is genderless and has nothing down there- but if other people are perfectly comfortable using their imagination and working with/keeping what they have then that's great, too.