Transgender/intergender dolls?

I don't have one but I always wanted one. I have effeminate looking men but that's about it. I would like one but not sure where to start do I buy and girl body and go to a man or man to a women. I wish there were more soft bodies then you could stuff the man's chest and then put a tight belt on to give him a figure and slowly do the change. One day I hope to have one.

 

I'm trans myself (I ID as FtM/a trans man, though my presentation varies :P) and I like to reflect myself in my stories--which turn into my dolls. My Pen is genderfluid, but mostly identifies as masculine and was DFAB, though he's a shapeshifter. His ideal body is one of the DollZone MSD ones with the wide hips and soft curves. His presentation is very fluid and he likes to dress up. One of my next dolls is Linden, who's a trans guy as well. Later down the line I'll get Fallon and Jacqui, who are both trans women. I don't know if I'll ever get him, but Jacqui's boyfriend Gerard is also a trans man. It's really cool to hear from cis people (people whose gender identity matches their designated birth sex) who have trans characters, though!

 

Hmmm, I guess Peppermint sort of belongs here?

He's definitely gender-fluid, though he's not a human character. He's a god. It made sense that a god would not have a gender (why would a god adhere to a human construct like gender?); the male pronouns are for ease of communication, but he was created from inception to be genderless and therefore quite androgynous in presentation. It's never an issue to him, and he was definitely not created to BE a non-binary character specifically (I have other human ones that were). He just... happened. And I forget that it could be very significant. I'm cis-gendered, but I have many characters who are trans/gender-fluid/genderless/from societies where gender is an entirely alien concept. (One character in the pipeline is an AI. Also uses male pronouns, but also completely unconcerned with notions of gender. He doesn't even have a body really, other than a projection he has to use to communicate with humans who have difficultly not having a face to a voice... which is what I'd have to get a doll of. :P)

Peppermint with me. And with a friend. He makes a pretty pretty girl. His body is genderless, as per his character.

 

Edtel, don't even worry about making people mad.I feel like the first two questions of the the original post of this topic are extremely character-centered questions. What character your doll is going to be is your decision. As long as your intent for making your doll's character isn't subconsciously nor consciously trying to spread hate/discrimination (of course this is subjective but I say this as a non-anal, well-balanced casual person), then do not worry about offending anybody relating to these specific issues that are different from eachother.

It's cool that you want to do research. That's a very nice gesture in your behalf. And I think many of us would appreciate that. It's just really up to how you want your character to be. Are they a mary sue? Are they well written? Does the character care about social norms? Aware? Is the character going to be easily naive forever? Is this going to be a happy story? is this just going to be boring super duper drama that I don't care about? Those are some questions that are at the back of my mind when reading stories (or *cough* watching horrible filipino tv drama shows *cough*)

You can shell your character to whatever doll with or without any modification you wish. That body is for a character you made for your own personal reasons dear to you. If someone else has a problem (being offended) with your doll due to some aspect of the doll's trangendered or intersexed state being "inaccurate" (as if there is a "standard" of what a random person should be), there is no way you should feel guilty that your character of the doll does not match their "better" version of your actual character you created. Because obviously your doll's character isn't about that hater's accurate life.

Your doll has her own personality, weaknesses, joys and all that good stuff that goes beyond her own body. I feel sorry for those haters who can't see that. So please, do not be afraid to explore her story

I don't have any dolls (until march), but he isn't going to be transgendered. Tho, I am personally bothered of the mentality that people who are this cannot make characters who are that. Enjoyable imagination presented to the public should be limited by your skills as a writer or speech person or artist, not by your body -_-

 

finally got my AoD small bust female body for my dollzone Freddy head - who is a girl (named Ellis - gender-neutral name) although Freddy is a male sculpt...but she identifies as male and dresses in boy's clothes LOL - I'm not sure if I've done FtM or MtF with this doll! Really I don't think gender matters as much as individuality - be yourself rather than a gender stereotype, whether that's male of female - as I've said before in this thread. Ellis won't be having any modifications to her female body any time soon, if ever, but she likes to be perceived as male, although really s/he is just 'Ellis' - a unique individual. S/he is asexual, which does make things less complicated!

 

Elve, I'd say Ellis is FTM, since they have a female designated at birth body and identify as male. I hope that helps! He's super cute in his outfit, though.

 

The boy that is on his way to me is not so much transgender because while he loves many girl things, especially their clothes, he identifies himself as male. He however would much rather get a manicure, and yes most of the time his nails are done, than watch, let alone play football. However baseball is an entirely different story. He loves baseball, both watching and playing.

 

thanks jemlovecraft I am planning on getting dollzone Alpha head only (male sculpt) and buying a super-busty body for her - She'll be MtF then I guess, and very thrilled with her new 'assets' too I do have a couple of tinies which are dressed opposite to their gender, but that's more a case of they wear what I think suits them - tiny children have little say in what they wear!

 

I have characters that are physically hermaphrodites that I would like to shell, though they identify as female (all with varying levels of stereotypical "femininity"). I do want to mod them so they have the applicable genitals, though it is doubtful I would ever even take pictures of them undressed. I have a lot of reasons for liking this physical and gender identity, and want the dolls to correctly display the characters' situation in their shell.

 

It warms my little trans heart to read such balanced and thoughtful posts about transgender/genderqueer/genderfluid dolls. A friend has been showing me some posts on tumblr (yes, here be trolls) where people have been having kittens over an owner's decision to create a trans character in doll form. I have found them to be extremely depressing to read and have abandoned it. So much anger and spite on both sides of the divide. This thread has restored my faith in the BJD community's ability to approach this topic in a adult fashion.

The fact is that our hobby attracts a disproportionate number of LGBT people. My belief is that our highly-customisable dolls lend themselves to exploration of identity in a safe setting. They therefore fulfill a useful therapeutic function. Whether you are exploring your own gender identity by creating these characters or simply find it an interesting character basis is all good. Do I find it to be a problem that some of these characters appear to "fetishising" transpeople? Not at all. We fetishise all types of people in our hobby. Why should we be exempt? We are not such special little snowflakes. Providing it is done with some element of understanding and the transperson is not presented as a "freak", it is all healthy exploration. Keep it all coming!

 

Well said. I think that at some point it's no longer an "exploration" as much as it is an expression; I've got my spot on the continuum figured out but I still like other ideas about gender and identity just as much and want a visual expression of them to enjoy. Perhaps it's more apparent when one owns many dolls, but to me each doll becomes an aspect of the collector's personality and philosophy in the same way that many deities have multiple aspects not all of which are the same gender.

 

Yes, sometimes I see people complaining that people are 'fetishizing' certain groups of people with their dolls. But I don't think people are obligated to create dolls that accurately represent normal, everyday people in the percentages they occur in real life (~% must be this race, ~% must be this sexual orientation, etc). These are our own asian ball jointed dolls, which we buy and style to be beautiful and special to us. So it's only natural that many people will create dolls after things they like, even if it's not a realistic, down-to-earth portrayal of transpeople (or other groups).

 

I think one of the reasons that some queer people feel so strongly about "fetishsizing" is that queer represenation in the media often fetishizes or casts them in demeaning roles (not uncommon at all for any minority group really). Personally I feel that a niche hobby like this isn't the best target for that sort of criticism, but I understand that not everyone is going to share that view (I am extremely lax in taking offense to things). I feel it's more appropriate to criticize this in mainstream media, which is where it can have a very negative impact due to the amount of people who see that representation and do not educate themselves further.

When it comes to BJD I think a better solution is to make the characters and dolls that you want to see. If you feel offended or threatened by fetishizing, then lead by example and make some photostories that show queer characters in another light. People don't tend to take it well if you attempt to educate them by calling them out or lecturing them. So get them interested in other representation of queer characterization.

Note: it does depend a little on how it is being presented, though I don't think I've ever really seen a case that I would personally consider crossing a line. For me there would have to be a clear intent to make fun of or attack to constitute crossing a line.


* I am using the term queer, because I have also seen this sort of reaction regarding LGBTQIA persons/dolls other than transgender as well, and I feel it applies equally.

** Since I did not state it before and I believe the disclosure is applicable to the conversation, I am saying this as someone who identifies as mostly agender, with a slight leaning toward the binary gender that does not match my birth sex.


tl;dr: I agree with you both, and am pointing out the people who complain about it are responding from a deeper hurt, possibly due to the shortage of positive queer [role] models in media. As with most things, human feelings are complicated and it is difficult to arrange things so that everyone is happy and unhurt.

 

I was going to comment with something very much along these lines.
I, too, think that criticizing queer representation in media is very important, but as dolls are a private thing, I think people can do what they want.
But there is certain subjects most people will call out immediately. If people cross a certain line, I will probably say something. Not if they post the pictures privately of course or here on DoA, where being confrontal is discouraged.

 

I just wanted to post a new picture of my sweet guy, now that he has a face-up.
Hopefully I can get a proper photoshoot of him and his girlfriend soon!

 

That is a very sweet face.

And chipping in on the fetishising vs negative stereotypes thing. These are two different things. Completely. If one is fetishing a type of person, one is making them the focus of sexual interest to the extent, perhaps, of objectifying them. That has nothing to do with the negative and uninformed depictions of transpeople in the media. If (and a big "if") some people fetishise transfolk by making trans characters as dolls, it shows that they are interested enough to spend hundreds of dollars and hours of thought and effort into resincarnating them. Yes, it might not be a 100% accurate depiction of a transperson, as this is a subtle and difficult subject. What you can be sure of, though, is that the owner would not have spent all that time and money producing an object of hate. And, reading through this thread, it appears that the vast majority of people with trans character dolls are aware that they might not have it exactly right and are open to finding out more. This has to be good.

Transpeople have been invisible and taboo for too long. At least in the UK, with programs like My Transsexual Summer and My Genderation, this is changing. Transpeople are slowly entering the mainstream, no longer thought of as something exotic (or, as has been the case, freaks). The apparent increase in the number of trans character dolls must be a reflection of this. And, whilst I have tried, I just can't see anything wrong with that.

 

Technically off-topic, but "resincarnating" may just have jumped to the top of my "favorite doll terms" list!

 

Akatsuki, your guy has such a sweet face!

I've enjoyed following this discussion (and seeing all the lovely dolls themselves, as I'd previously mentioned), and I feel I'm in agreement with a couple people here re: fetishization-- even when things verge on it, the people here with dolls on the genderqueer spectrum are acting out of love and frequently a desire to learn more, and I think that's wonderful.

 

Some of my characters identify as gender queer since they're aspects of me. I have two characters that are intersex gnomes daemons. So... Hopefully I can she'll these characters soon.

 

I sort of have one... She wasn't planned, but here she is! I ordered an Angell-Studio Kimi on a girl body, but they accidentally sent me the boy body instead. This is a pretty girly character (aiming for pastel goth), so at first I was going to sand off his you know, but now the idea of leaving him intact is appealing to me.