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Volks SD13 Four Sisters no longer standard - what will take their place?

Jan 10, 2006

    1. And it is a rather bold assumption that Volks standards aren't popular. They're extremely popular in Japan, and very versatile.

      I happen to be of the opinion that they've hardly out done the beauty of their original sculpts. Nana, Nono & Mimi are all definately on my "most gorgeous dolls ever" list.
       
    2. The logic is that if a limited head is so popular and in so much demand that people are willing to pay huge markups on the secondary market, then if Volks instead made the head available as a standard version, they would sell a large volume of the head, and get all the profits of that to themselves, instead of resellers getting the inflated percentage over the original cost.

      The logic has some value to it, I think... certainly if Volks released a standard Cyndy, they would sell a lot of her! But at the same time, sometimes the horribly inflated prices on the secondary market are just because the doll is limited. Make her unlimited, and there's no longer that huge pressure and impetus to buy her NOW, no matter what the price. And sometimes a doll might go for a really high auction price, but there's only two people bidding who want her.

      I once got in a bidding war over a rare pencil board on eBay, and finally gave up around 70 dollars. A few days later someone else listed the same board at a starting price of 5 dollars, and I won it for that. No one else bid against me. Now, this might have been partly because people already saw I was willing to bid very high on it, but I think it was really because only two of us were competing over the first board, and once the other person got theirs, I was the only one left who wanted one. XD

      I'm using this as an example to illustrate - if there are only 100 Cyndy heads, and 1000 people want her, that's going to drive up the price a lot. But if Volks turns around and makes Cyndy unlimited, they'll only sell 1000 heads. Probably less, because some people will lose interest if she's no longer limited or hard to get.

      So, while in some cases, the "if it was unlimited, they'd make more money" argument applies, it's not 100% certain because other factors drive the secondary market.

      (And if I'm all wrong and crazy on this, let me know. ... I have some Econ 101, and that's it. ^^)
       
    3. The secondary market and "scalper" pehenomena are really two different things. I mean, dolls resold here at DoA are being sold on the secondary market--arent they? And hopefully not by scalpers. There is a Doll Marketplace (secondary market) on this forum isn't there?

      There will always be scalpers with limited editions--and if we are honest, we can see that Volks does have a hand in creating that market by offering really nice limiteds and very few, (well, none that I would buy) really nice standards. If there were more Volks standards then that wouldn't be so much an issue. Aaahhh--so much for ethics--Eastern or Western.

      I just bought my first doll from Volks--a doll I happened to REALLY LIKE--the gorgeous SD16 Yukinojo--and I had to play a game to get it, I couldn't just buy him--which is why I plunked down over 1300 bucks to get him. I had planned on buying Hound this month, but I got SD16 instead. Very good marketing done by Volks. This is one of the most, if not the most expensive limited ever. (Hound will be out there for a while) Also, with limiteds, you don't have a lot of time to mull over your decision, which is another extremely good marketing strategy. With Volks, you gotta buy it now or it's gone.

      I've always liked Volks guys, but not too many of their girls. I like a more realistic and mature, fashionable doll, which is a definite BJD trend. I'm not really into child dolls. I never did like the four sisters SD13 girl face--too unrealistic, sorry, but I don't see the "art" in this sculpt. I am really looking forward to what they come up with next. I sort of like the SD10 4 sisters, but I prefer a jointed waist body(only with FCS or limiteds)--this comes standard with so many other companies dolls. See what I'm getting at--Volks doesn't offer enough for me in their standard editions--they just don't measure up.

      I buy what I like whether it's Volks, Rainy Doll, Dollshe, Dream of Doll etc. The individual doll has to meet my criteria for me to purchase it. I don't buy anything because of a brand name or loyalty to a company. I have to really like what I buy and it has to have intrinsic value.

      Volks may have started the BJD trend, but they were just copying the antique dolls--they didn't invent ball jointed dolls. They made their version of a modern ball jointed doll, in a more durable material, based on their cultural standards. Their products just never appealed to me very much.

      When I saw Ryung, I finally bought a BJD. And now Yukinojo--andothers on the way. So, now Volks has me as a BJD customer (I do have some of their 1/6 scale doll bodies) because they changed and offered something that I would buy.

      I really wanted the Dollfie Dream 2 but that disappeared after two weeks. So now it's the secondary market--or find another doll. I like the pinky white Narin doll--she'd make a great ballerina. I feel like Volks plays games--and I really don't like to play games--it's a turnoff. Look at Narindoll--they offer two great dolls with 4 faces and 4 colors. No games--I think he took into account what people didn't like about the other doll companies and is doing the opposite. Narae is a beautiful sculpt--she can be anything.

      So, Volks will always do what is good for Volks--like any good company would do.
       
    4. LisaMarie, please forgive me if I am wrong, and maybe it is a misunderstanding on my part, but I've read your posts in this thread and I must say that they seem very negative. I'm not trying to insult you or start an argument, but I just think you should know that people may read your words and be hurt.

      While Volks, like any other business, does care about money, I truly don't believe that is their driving force when it comes to their dolls. Just from what I have seen and heard about their president makes me believe that they truly do care about their art and their customers.

      Volks isn't out there to try to make it hard for you to get what you want. If you don't like any of their standard dolls, don't buy them. Wait until you find a doll that is perfect for you, whether from Volks or not. Also, most people don't buy a doll just because a certain company has made it. They buy what they think is beautiful, despite who makes them.

      Also, most people in this hobby know that Volks were not the very first to invent the stringed, ball-jointed doll, and no one has ever disputed that. I don't understand why you have brought it up.

      It's hard to read one's emotions and feelings when it is just typed on a screen, but I just thought you should know that in my opinion, it was almost as if you were attacking Volks and their products. You are certainly intitled to your opinion, but I don't think this is the right thread to bring this up.

      Once again, if I was mistaken, I do apologize, and I hope that there are no hard feelings between us. :daisy
       
    5. Actually,

      I am just giving my opinion--and responding to statements in prior posts by Fyredancer and others.

      I know there are many that agree with me about the limiteds versus standards. And the thread of SD13 sisters being discontinued is along those lines.

      I am looking forward to a new and better sculpt for the standard SD13 dolls, and the possibility of a SD16 girl too. I am glad they're going to give them a new face or come up with something else. I may really like it. To me, it's a step in the right direction.

      I have read a lot about Volks and I think they enjoy making their dolls and are good at what they do. But as is often the case when there is a new product on the market, it is copied by others and expanded upon. I also think they can be difficult to deal with--all these limiteds and not any standards I realy like.

      I'm looking forward to Mr Yukinojo coming home and living with me.

      By the way, in one of my prior posts I did mention how much I like Emma. She is lovely. If I have the opportunity in the future to get her, I am sure I will.

      It seems people get really upset and or angry here if you don't share the majority's opinion, or say anything negative or point out negatvie aspects of how a company does business. I don't understand this reaction at all. What is the point of everyone agreeing, where's the discussion then?
       
    6. I'm not upset or angry with you at all, I just didn't think this was the right thread to bring that up. You are free to your opinion, and I don't want everyone to agree on everything, I just think that the way you worded your statements seemed harsh due to the context. Please understand that I wasn't trying to start an argument or upset you in any way, I just wanted to explain my opinion.

      I hope there are no hard feelings :daisy
       
    7. I don't think it's a matter of going against the majority, it's when you make statements such as:

      Considering that this thread is about people who appreciate the beauty and "art" of the sd13 4-sisters head mold, coming in and saying that it's "unrealistic" and not "art" can be viewed as insulting to those that do like it. Yeah, that might seem a bit too sensitive but when I read your statement, I found myself a little pissed as I'm an owner of an sd13 4-sister. Your statement turned this thread into something else that it wasn't intended, based on the beginning post.

      There are a whole lot of ball-jointed dolls out there that I don't like and some, absolutely hate but I don't go saying that in the forum as I know there are people that love them. If they enjoy them, good for them.
       
    8. Volks is a company, yeah, but a really nice one. They take good care of their workers and as a result their workers are really enthusiastic about their company. Anyone who's going into a Volks shop, in Japan or in California, would tell you that their customer service is excellent and they take a personal interest in their customers. The Volks staff at our local Sumika knew both my roommate and me by name, and they seemed to know all of their other "regular" customers by name. After Dolpa Nagoya, I brought my pictures in to show one of the girls, as as we flipped through them, she could point out dolls of regular customers and tell me their names. The dolls' names, not just the owners.

      They may just be a company who's out to take my money, but I find it much easier to give my money to people who are nice. Or if not genuinely nice. at least attentive and friendly.

      I found Japanese marketing stategies to be very different than American marketting strategies. One thing I always noticed was that almost everything was limited. Taking a stupid example, Coca-Cola's Japanese side produces a beverage called Qoo. There are a few standard flavors, but then there are also usually two flavors at a time that cycle though and change with the seasons. So you might get a fantastic flavor one week, and then it'll be gone and you'll never see it again. Regardless of it was popular. What we learned when we were there was "Buy it when you see it." Limiteds aren't really any different than that. It's just a different mentality here - I remember people stockpiling Code Red. We sort of rely on things always being around, where Volks comes from a culture that has constantly changing product lines.

      Um, back to the original topic, I almost wonder if Volks won't replace the 4 sisters. I guess I'm not so sad about the 4 sisters being discontinued as a standard. That head is available through FCS still... so it's not like it's completely gone! :) I kinda wonder about why they added the other standards' heads to FCS, really! (I'm not complaining.) Lately it seems like the new Volks dolls have tended toward a more realistic look... I would sort of like a girl like Liz to be a standard! :D
       
    9. I'm really, really glad to see Volks heading in the direction they've been heading in, doll-wise.

      I do bemoan the lack of variety in standards. Mind you, there's one standard I love - SD13 Link. Though even then, mine isn't a standard, he's an FCS BW Link with long legs and tabi feet and a non-standard faceup. X3

      Mind you, not all of Volks' limiteds sell out instantly. You can STILL buy Magical Michael from the Volks website. It's been how many months now? XD

      Mind you, there are some things I don't like with the way the standards are done - Having a 'complete' doll arrive is nice, but then you're left with a wig and eyes you may or may not ever have any use for... ^_^; Plus the joy of chipping out hot glue. XD Please, Volks, stop DOING that. With all your dolls. XD For those who like to customize and paint themselves, the faceup can be a problem too as it's not possible to get a standard blank. Gotta remove it and stuff. Plus I wish the SD standards would come with jointed bodies. I actually wouldn't mind a Nono, but not if I have to go to the trouble of selling her non-jointed body and buying a jointed body. >_< (And if I ever do another FCS, it'd be to upgrade Alisa to an F-05)

      Mind you, limiteds are worse if the clothing isn't something you'll ever use. XD (Kohya outfits, anyone?) I almost like getting secondhand non-fullset limiteds better because then I don't have to figure out what to do with the things I'll never use. XD;;;

      However! Even if there so far are no standard releases of either, the SDC and SD16 are a gigantic step in the right direction. One of the reasons I prefer the CP boy body to the SD13 boy body is the extra joints on the former. I like extra-poseable dolls. The more joints, the better. And while you can argue that CP did double shoulder joints first and DollShe did double elbow and knee and 3-piece torso joints first, Volks is the first to my knowledge to put such things together to reap the benefits of everything. ^_^ And it is a benefit, believe me. While I sold my Arashi, it was because his size and mold weren't working for me, and had nothing at all to do with his posing, which was a dream come true. I'm really, really looking foward to Yukinojou, since he has the kind of jointing I love AND the size range I love. I'm a SD-size lover, so. X3

      The more realistic face sculpts are nice, too. ^__^ ...Only problem is, the more realistic ones tend to have smaller heads and then don't fit wigs. XD;;; Isao, Link... More 'realistic' sculpts, and they both have tiny little pin heads. I don't know HOW Link keeps from being eaten by his default W-55, one of those would swallow Lukas whole the way the one I used to have ate Ephram for breakfast. XD

      But yes. More and more realistic standards would be lovely. ^_^ I actually wouldn't mind seeing the SD/SD13s come in kit form like the MSDs do. That way people can choose to have it painted or not and put together for them or not.
       
    10. LisaMarie, it's not that you dissagree, it's HOW you dissagree. You tend to say things in a way that might make people think that you think that your opinion could be the only correct one. Maybe that's not how you meant to come across, but Saying things like "ha, you haven't owned a business have you!" makes it sound like you are saying that other people are ignorant. You dont know whether other people have owned a business or not.

      Some people prefer more anime styled dolls and some prefer more realistic ones. A more anime styled doll is not inherently inferior...

      IMHO, if money was the bottom line, they would mass produce the dolls. The dolls almost always sell out, they could sell more of them and make a mint. If they made certain extremely sought after dolls, standards, they would make a mint. How can you explain why they don't do that then? Dolls like Lucas and Madoka are not sought after because they are LIMITED, but because they are BEAUTIFUL.

      Maybe some of you think that I am extremely niave, but all I can do is make a guess based on my experiences, and the rest of you will have to do the same. You are obviously more than welcome to dissagree with me, but lets not put other people down or ridicule them for their opinions.

      My opinion, based on the meetings and interviews I've had with Volks, and after years of "collecting" their dolls, is that while definitely making money is important, that the first and foremost thing to them is the creation of a beautiful product that they can be proud of.

      Also, The Volks Mansion is not on the street in Santa Monica where it can pull lots of new business. Most people going to the Volks store are people who were already aware of Volks and would have bought the Volks doll ANYWAY. IMHO, they could have made about the same amount of money by simply enlarging their international online store. The outlay for the parties they held alone must have been a huge sum, and IMHO, was completely unnessesary to "make more money".

      My understanding is,... correct me if I'm wrong that your point, LisaMarie, is that any nice thing that a company does, is solely for the purpose of making money, and not because they are proud of their product, or because they want to be nice.

      I'm sure that's why the Volks president personally passed out water bottles at the Volks opening? and put out chairs for everyone himself...? Seems like it would have been cheaper to just hire some $5 an hour hired hand. While it was a nice gesture for the President himself to hand out water, I don't think that anyone bought a doll who wouldn't have already just because he held out water for them himself rather than have another employee do it. But it could all be an elaborate ruse to trick us gulible americans into buying Volks products! (Truely, it could be, I'm not being sarcastic) But, I don't think that it is.

      I think that eventually Volks will release standard editions of SDC, SD16 and Yo-SD, but I think, as usual, they are doing so many things at once that it will take time.

      Also, like Nikita said, saying that you see no art in the four-sister sculpt is just asking for trouble. Plenty of people on this forum own that doll and love it. It's one thing to say "that head mold just isn't my cup of tea" or "I like this headmold better" but saying there is no art in it, people will be offended by that. you can state your opinion and dissagree with people without insulting their opinions...
       
    11. Oh, I like the way the standards are put together for you, because I know I would mess it up if i tried to do it myself. :sweat But I hope that some day they'll release pureskin optional parts for people who want to build their own. :)

      I think I like the less-realistic heads Volks makes for the most part, but I also adore Anais so I guess I'm a sucker for both sides. I hope they don't completely stop releasing less-realistic limiteds, but Volks rarely dissapoints me so I'm not too worried. :daisy
       
    12. On this board, apparently, Syo is an extremely underrated boy. Not only was he the very first SD13 standard boy, but he was even brought back when pureskin came out and given the new body. Clearly, he is popular and desirable, or Volks would not have bothered to rerelease him. So please do not continue with this 'no one cares about Volks SD13 boy standards' attitude because a lot of us do love Syo and Link.
       
    13. I think Syo is beautiful, and many people also agree. ^_^
       
    14. I like Syo as well. :) The only thing Is that I once saw him as a girl and that was my favorite version so far. I guess I just have a partiality for girl dolls. :daisy

      I think I would like Link too, except that he looks almost exactly like a boy who used to pick on me in school. :sweat Too bad, he's a handsome boy. :)
       
    15. I really didn't like Syo on the website, I felt that the Volks photographers just...blech on that one.

      But the owner pics of him? My GOD. Syo is the Volks boy I'd get for my longest-existing, dear-to-my-heart, first character EVER created boy Oliver.

      Just. Perfect.

      Owner pics made me see that. Jerolyn specifically made me go 'hey, white haired Syo REALLY looks like my Oliver...' and boom, it was love. Cecil's a hot boy too, but doesn't fit anyone. If I had the willpower NOT to buy their friends/family, they'd be mine. As it is, buying a Syo to be Oliver would lead to th immediate purchase of two more dolls, leading to MORE, and yeah, don't have the money XD

      Perhaps the standards might not look so blah if they...did something different with the photographs? Not extreme editing or photoshopping, but something MORE somehow. I feel they sell a lot of thier molds short, and while I'm not a fan of Volks dolls in general, the owners pictures do more to sell the doll for me than the first-look on the website, and that might need to change.
       
    16. This is OT, but Reena, I LOVE your icon!! :D It's so cuuute!!! :chibi
       
    17. Yeah, and having actual pages in English for some of the standards would be nice too..<3 Volks but their Japanese website is in dire need of a makeover.
       
    18. You're free to disagree but when you make comments like this:

      By the way--have you ever been in business? Aahh...I didn't think so...

      That's fairly rude. You're making an awful big assumption there. There is a polite way to give your opinion and that's not it. You really shouldn't wonder why people aren't reacting well to you. ^^;;;

      As for Volks, I agree they don't do things only out of the goodness of their heart. They are a business and they have bills to pay. However, I'd say the art side of things is equally as important to them.

      Now on to doll-related things....I personally love the standard sculpts. However, I would like to see additions to them. Not necessarily current limited dolls made into standards, just new sculpts in general.
       
    19. Thank you, Aimee, you made the points that I wanted to make, if I had had the time. :grin: Drat that job-type thing.

      It's first-hand accounts such as yours and Cassiel's that I have to draw on when I say I think Volks places such a premium on art and quality. That's precisely the thing, if money were their bottom line, they could have farmed out production to a country where the overhead was much lower, mass-produced dolls that had proven popular as limiteds, opened up FCS worldwide anywhere... and they should have done it, if all they cared about was money and not the quality of their art. (No, I have not run a business, but working with business is my business.)

      Volks isn't selling dolls, from their viewpoint, they're helping you welcome a beautiful son or daughter into your life. That's what the omukae ceremony is all about.

      At any rate, I personally have never been drawn particularly to the SD13 four sisters head, but I definitely think the head has potential. Like most of the standards, the face-up is very basic and doesn't show off the sculpt to its best advantage. (I did see one very lovely repaint for sale in the Marketplace once.)

      What I'd hope for the most is a new boy or girl whose sculpt doesn't really resemble any of the existing options. I think the likeliest dolpa they would unveil it at is the Spring dolpa, because that's when Japanese students begin the school year.
       
    20. I once saw an absolutely gorgeous SD13 Megu modeling one of Wondermom's creations on Yahoo Japan Auctions. :chibi I had never really noticed the head until then. It may not be number one on my list, but I'd love to have one someday. :)