What do you think about Hybrids?

I agree with this. Making bodies does not have to be the natural path after making heads. I have as much right looking down at your doll as you have looking down at sculptors who does not want to tackle body sculpting. They are both choices and they are made with personal reasons.

That said, I'm big on hybrid because I'm a cheapskate, I hate sending out one lump sum at a time, and I have specific height/built needs for my characters. Most importantly it's because I'm a cheapskate. I'm unsure why looking out for your wallet by paying what you're willing for is unethical, unless I turn over every cheap things I buy to the marketplace to get my money back. But even then it's more of an annoyance to people who are looking for quality things in the marketplace than being inethical.

 

What about, you know, shirt companies that only make shirts? Aren't they being opportunistic and leeching off all those companies that make both shirts and pants?

Personally I think it's very wrong to wear Chanel pants with a Tommy Hilfiger shirt. Obviously Chanel is making their pants and shirts to be a whole artistic unit, and you should absolutely not insult the artistic integrity of their work by wearing anything other than a Chanel shirt with a pair of Chanel pants.

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Okay, that sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? So... why is it somehow different with BJDs? We mix and match everything in our lives! Clothing designers produce complete "lines" of clothing -- pieces that are obviously meant to be worn together. But we see nothing wrong with mixing and matching brands of clothing. And furniture companies make complete living room sets, but we also see nothing wrong with getting your couch from one company and your tv stand from another. And even though make-up is often sold in complete "kits" and clearly each company wants a woman to only use ONE brand for her entire face, women often mix brands -- Maybelline mascara with Covergirl eyeliner and Max factor eyeshadow, or whatever else.

I don't see why mixing BJDs should be any different. BJDs are not somehow magical and special and set apart from any other luxury item. They're products to be bought and sold, period.

 

Of the five dolls I own, three are hybrids. My El was the first, I chose an Fdoll body for him not because it was cheaper (though that's an awesome bonus) but because I hate hate hate the Luts body. I wanted a body with a mid torso joint for slouching that was also aesthetically pleasing and that's what I got. My other two are Migidoll heads on AoD bodies that I chose for poseability, appearance and (gasp) price.

I do a lot of work on my dolls until they're just right. Hair, eyes, clothes, faceups, and yes - bodies. I'm going to buy what I like, and tweak it how I like, because its my money I'm spending and my happiness that I'm concerned with. I'm not spending this much cash on something I'm not going to be 100% satisfied with and that's really what it comes down to for me.

People on this forum are always advising people to not rush out and buy but save up for the doll they really want, don't worry about selling a doll to buy another because its what makes you happy that counts, redo that faceup until you're satisfied with how it brings the doll to life, so why is there this big fuss about hybrids? There's really no difference. My dolls are hybrids because I bought the head sculpts I wanted to own and bodies that had the attributes I desired. How does that ruin artistic integrity? Does that mean if I wipe a company faceup, swap out the default wig or dress a doll in clothing that isn't part of their full set that I've compromised some sort of artistic vision? The only thing I'm concerned with is *my vision* for *my doll*.

 

as someone very new to the bjd world, i will admit that at first* i was at a loss as to why people wanted to redo a company faceup, or do any type of mod. especially the modding struck me as "ruining the artist's vision". but even then the thought of switching heads and bodies seemed perfectly fine to me.
everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i honestly don't see what the big deal is. and as many others have stated, to say it is an ethical transgression vs. a matter of taste seems to me fatuous.

*note* i have since come to understand and embrace the large part that customization plays in this hobby. someday i hope to be brave enough to attempt a faceup!

 

I still keep thinking that if anyone's going to nitpick about Artistic Integrity for the body, it's GOT to extend to the peripherals (hair, faceup, eyes, etc.). Caring about one without caring about the others, it doesn't wash-- it's like trying to be only partly-pregnant. Either you've preserved the Original Concept 100%, or you have not preserved it 100%.

If studios like Limhwa only wanted to sell their dolls as finished art-pieces, they wouldn't offer a "no makeup" option. My Mano does not follow Limhwa's artistic vision at all, because his faceup is so extremely different from all her prepainted ones. If Limhwa had truly wanted to sell me her own artistic vision, and only that vision, she wouldn't have offered the option to buy unpainted.


...*sigh*... Once again, I think I should've just waited to post, until I read Taco's succinct Encapsulation-of-Everything here. Taco's always doing that to me. ^^

Point blank. If we can't specifically quantify "artistic integrity" as it applies to this DIY-heavy hobby, we'll be arguing around this particular mulberry bush until the End of Days. Like "limited edition", "artistic integrity" is a deceptively-simple term that turns out to have vastly different meanings for different people.

(But we had to air-out the argument first, in order to learn that! So I suppose this debate had its purpose after all. :} )

 

Oh my.
One of my girls has parts from three different companies. Even ignoring shipping, I spend rather more on her creation that I would have getting her as a complete doll. Why would anyone do such a thing? I wanted to recreate a specific image I envisioned for her. This hobby, for many for myself most certainly, hinges on recreating a base into something new or creating from scratch to blend with something else. Why would anyone even dream to say some parts may not be changed?

 

I'm all for hybrids. I didn't do it to be cheaper though. I do it for aesthetics.

I bought a MNF head and I HATE the MNF body lower torso joint. The line of a joint there just ruins my admittedly favorite part of the body. So when I picked a DZ body for it, sure it ended up saving me money, but I had no intention of EVER buying a MNF body. In fact I tend to over look their dolls based on the body type.

My AR had hands I could not stand to look at so I bought him Dollmore hands and I love them. His AR hands were perfectly good so it cost me more to get the new ones, but I really wanted something different from what was there.

Its like people said already. The dolls are about creativity and customization. You pick out the look, hair, eyes, clothes, everything to get exactly what you want and if one company doesn't offer it then you need to go somewhere else for it.

If the companies don't want us to change them then they shouldn't sell them. No matter what, someone somewhere will customize it. Barbies and My Little Ponies are customized all the time despite being sold in certain looks.

 

The entire draw of BJDs, for me, is their customization. My dolls are meant to match the characters I envision for them, so I'm going to pick and choose heads, bodies, eyes, wigs, faceups, etc, to get the look I want. Yes, some people buy BJDs and don't change a single thing about them. Nothing wrong with that. But I'd wager the VAST majority of those in the hobby customize their dolls to suit their tastes, even if it's only swapping eyes or wigs. Hybridization is only a natural extension of that customization.

Does you have to like hybrids? Of course not. Everyone's tastes are different, and there are plenty of hybrids I'm not personally fond of. But to say it's somehow wrong is, in my opinion, to miss the entire point of the BJD hobby.

ETA: One more thing to add: Volks' motto is "we seek creativity". Dolls Party unwritten rules aside, they themselves are presenting their product as a springboard for further customization. You can't get upset when you've touted your product as customizable, and then be shocked when your customers do just that. (Note: from a business standpoint, it definitely makes sense for Volks to make the Dolpas Volks-only events--they're the ones putting all the time/effort/money into organizing them, after all--so I have no issue with that.)

 

I told myself I would read the debate and not comment but then I saw this part of your post. I just had to comment, because I am in the process of buying a doll that is a Volks Dollzone hybrid. I instantly fell in love with said doll because he is a Volks Dollzone hybrid. I, as the owner of two Dollzones and one other Dollzone hybrid, absolutely love their bodies. They are long, lean, and mature looking for 1/4 size dolls, as well as posing very well. On the other hand I do not like Volks MSD/SDC bodies because they are so child like. My boys are supposed to be teenagers not little kids, and Volks bodies make me think of kids. I do on the other hand adore the Kurt sculpt, so when I found a Kurt on a Dollzone body I jumped at the chance to own him. I can't help but feel like somehow I have strayed from the topic, yet at the same time I feel that this needed to be said.

As for other hybrids, as previously stated I own, well two hybrids. One is a hybrid because that sculpt is sold as a head only. The other is a hybrid because the body he came on was much too short for the character. None of them were the cheaper options or anything like that. I for one do not care if someone else likes my hybrids. These dolls are mine and I arrange and create them, for lack of a better term, for me.

Do I find anything unethical about creating hybrids? No. I mean if these dolls were not meant to be hybridized or mixed and matched then there would be no reason to remove the heads from the bodies. At least if you want to break it down to something simplistic.

 

Out of curiosity, what IS this history between Volks and Dollzone, I thought they only knocked off a Kid Delf head? : /

 

They did.

When the large, 70cm, DZ boys first came out there was a lot of speculation that DZ stole theit body design from Volks.

 

hmmm honestly I was originally a bit on he fence on the whole Hybrid thing, not because of moral/ price/ company grounds, more on the grounds of really finding

1. something you like
2. resin that matches.
3. Something actually sold seperate, or do a split

and so on, I now have a Migidoll Ryu head, and I have yet to find a body I like that matches and is indeed buyable, and the idea of doing a split still has me shivering.

but I am not against hybrid in any way, its just part of the customization, like modding eyes, ears, scars it al changes the dolls from what the company may have intended, but once you've bought it you have to make it perfect for yourself not for the company........ if that makes sense

 

I have many hybrids. Some are hybrids because I got the heads and had to find a body for them, and honestly, I didn't want to be limited by brands (some brands of heads don't make bodies either, as it has already been said). Others are hybrids because I didn't like the body the company offered. For instance, my Jolly Plus Gise, I don't like Jolly Plus boy's body but I love their heads, so I made an hybrid. Or the opposite. I love Aoi Tuki body but not the head. So our Aoi Tuki body has a Shall head and she's gorgeous.

As I say always, live and let live. If anybody don't like hybrids, that's OK. But I don't think it's bad. It just adds more variety, and over all, it's, as everything, a matter of tastes.

 

SPECULATION is the keyword. I think everyone just started throwing accusations every freaking time DZ released something... That DZ/kid Delf thing was the only actual proof of DZ ripping off anyone :/

 

First thing I thought? "B-b-b-but he's a limited!!" Second thing I thought? "He has so many unloved brothers back at Volks, I guess Kurt deserves a bit of happiness!"

Volks themselves take the view that "each doll has a unique destiny"...nowhere in that sentence does it say the doll has to remain whole, or even 100% Volks!

 

I can't help laughing my socks off at the idea that someone considers hybrids "abominations."

MY money. MY doll. MY decision. I've put a Ford motor in a Jaguar body. I've put a Volkswagon motor into a fiberglas kit car. What I do with my money and my doll is my business.

 

I can understand why companies would not want to promote or advertise the fact that a competior makes a compatible head/body, after all if they can get you to then they want you to buy everything from them, also resin colours can vary and you don't want someone complaining because you sold them a head that you said would match company x but now company x has changed their resin colour

but from a buisness point of view I can also see that backfiring, I'm holding off buying a doll I want because it only comes complete and I don't find the body to be to my tastes, so I don't think sending them an e-mail or a locked board message is overly rude since those are both private so if the answer is yes you're not broadcasting it and if the answer is no then you can politely accept the fact and move on without putting off other people

and... well as much as I would love to not have the hassle of making hybrids the simple fact is I'm too fussy, I have a list of criteria a mile long (must be 70cm plus, must not have two of the same body, head must have 14mm eyes... etc etc) finding a head and a body that not only fit the criteria I have but also fit the character (eg this character must be taller than that one) I have in mind is difficult and to be honest pretty impossible in most cases at the moment

 

Well, I'm going to be blunt, but here, companies can say what they want, I'm paying for a head, I'm doing whatever I want with it, and if it includes putting it on a body I think fits better, well I'll do it.

I think it's ridiculous that a company tries to control products they SOLD. But hey that's capitalism for ya: If you can make more money out of something, go ahead and do it, apparently.

Same thing about not having the right to go to Volks store with dolls from other companies. So, they invented something and other took the ideas. Hey, big deal. It's like, if I walk in a Levis store with GAP jeans, are they going to kick me out? no. I think it's completely ridiculous and it's completely conceited to think you are, for example, the only company that has the RIGHT to do some type of product.

 

Also, something you just made me think of somehow. If we're taking other dolls or hybrids into their store (or dolpa or whatever) it means that we do still like the company and we are still willing to buy from them, even if we own dolls of other brands or parts of other brands.

Perhaps i like a shirt from a different store with my gap jeans ^.~