What do you think about Hybrids?

I had to hybrid with one of my boys. I bought a "pureskin" abio angel head in the marketplace a while back. Abio angel no longer makes pureskin dolls, so a body was close to impossible to find (I've still never seen a pureskin AA body). Fantasydoll NS resin matched perfect and his head fit just fine, so I went that route instead of waiting forever for poor Praedius to have his body.
If AA still had pureskin bodies, I would have bought one from the company. Though after playing with an AA body at a past meetup, I think I prefer the way the FDoll body is built.

 

I don't have a problem with hybrids at all. I have a couple hybrids.

However, with regard to Volks and Dolpas...

Volks requests that only Volks dolls be brought to their events. END OF STORY. It is THEIR EVENT. It's like being invited to somebody's party who says please don't smoke in my house and first thing you do in the door is light up. It's like going to a restaurant and walking in with a pizza from another place. It isn't appropriate for us to disregard and ignore their request. We can give our opinions on whether or not we understand why, or whether or not we approve until the cows come home, but.... IT IS DISRESPECTFUL and it is THEIR EVENT.

It just so happens that there aren't other doll companies who do events like Volks does for us here in the USA, so it seems like they sometimes receive a bad rap and they are called elitist and such. Can you imagine going to a Customhouse party and waving around a luts doll or a volks? Can you imagine going to a Souldoll party and bringing a volks doll to that? I can't. It is the height of disrespect and it breaks my heart to see it.

just my usual old two cents...

 

That makes a lot more sense, when you put it that way. I think a lot of people (myself included) had the Dollpa's policies confused with that of the Volks stores. (Although this is hardly the first place I've seen the 'Volks don't like non-Volks dolls in their shops' thing, so it seems to be one of those misunderstandings that have spread based on hearsay.) It's good to know that the LA store is more relaxed.

 

The Volks vs. DZ 70cm body issue may be speculation to many, but I believe the evidence from what I have seen. For me, this is ethics.

We cannot find an universal conclusion to the ethics of hybrids.

 

Well, to the vast majority there is no ethical issue, at least no logical one, so perhaps that is the conclusion of the community?

**Edited to address the first part of your post:

This is a good example of personal ethics that you can't really expect others to follow. If it were a head on a known banned knockoff, that would be one thing--actually, it wouldn't be so much an issue of hybrids but of bootlegs which is something else entirely. However, this is not the case with the 70cm DZ that you mentioned. As positive as you might be right down to the core of your being that they ripped off Volks, there are a lot of people who feel just as strongly that they didn't--even after viewing the same/similar evidence. So, no matter how you feel about it personally, to the community as a whole, it can only be classified as speculation. It may be strong enough for you to make the decision to never want to make a Volks/DZ hybrid, but you can't call the folks who would do such a thing unethical when they are acting in good faith that DZ did not in fact copy Volks. What Volks feels about it is a non-issue, because we are talking about doll parts paid for and owned by the dolls owner--not the company. The company gave up the right to dictate what can/can't be done with their doll when they sold it.

 

That seems to be it. Most people just don't see why there would be a problem, except in the cases of special events.

Exactly. =) I'm sure if Luts had a convention, it would be Luts dolls only (maybe some CP), Angell Studio would only want their dolls, etc. If anything, people probably feel more left out because there doesn't appear to be too many big 'BJD conventions', and some people just don't like Volks dolls. I'm actually having a change of heart with Volks sculpts. I don't like their standard sculpts, but I've found a few FCS sculpts I'm in love with...

 

Basically.

 

I don't mind hybrids, though I have seen many a not as good as they could be ones. If you're going to hybrid at least make the resin match or blush/shade to make it match. This is my small beef with hybrids.

I like the companies that just sell heads, their heads tend to be more appealing for me than the companies that just sell whole dolls. If a company sells bodies and heads separately, than that personally tells me that it's ok to get another head and put it on another body or which ever way you want.

If there is no choice to get a body/head separate then I go to another conclusion. If I hybrid it would be wise to keep the head that came with the body, just in case I can sell the original body as it was originally and the hybrid head separately. Just in case if the hybrid doesn't work out.

Although I personally do not have a hybrid I can understand why people do. I don't like most companies bodies, for various reasons, but cannot get just the head because they don't sell them.

 

Elfdoll Store has an event each month and Ms Cholong ENCOURAGES attendees to bring any doll they wish. Its very smart marketing, as many of their products fit other brands.

on Hybrids...

I took a tally and realized I currently only own two Hybrids...
MnMe head on a Unidoll body...
and a soom mix...diff dolls same company.

It would be a sad thing if I couldn't share how great the Unidoll body is just because the head isn't made by them...or to show off how wonderful the head is because its not a DIM body.

I have always felt that Hybrids are part of the hobby as a whole. This hobby attracts the artistic and creative. A whole different head or hands (maybe hand made) is a natural extension of the creative process in developing the look for the doll. The dolls are MADE to be manipulated.

 

This is a retail event, and not necessarily the same thing as a 'doll party' that specifically celebrates Volks owners and Volks products.

 

On one last note about Volks shops and Dolpas.... they're not saying that anyone who has every owned another company's doll or a hybrid cannot or should not come to their stores or events. They only ask that you leave those dolls at home. It's like a dress code- a fancy restaurant doesn't care if your dresser is full of 100 pairs of jeans at home, so long as you don't wear them into their restaurant. Why is this a problem? It's their space and they have an image they are trying to promote, whether it's an image of a classy dining environment where everyone looks rich, or a magical reunion for dolls made by a certain company. Either way it's their business and their money used to rent the space- so you play by their rules or you don't play at all.

As for hybrids, to use the car metaphor again, if I'd replaced half the parts in my car with aftermarket parts, added modifications to the exterior, and had it repainted in a custom colour, I wouldn't expect to take it back to the dealer and have them accept it for repairs. Like Victoria Vixtrix's VW motor in a kit car... do you take that one back to the VW dealership or do you get its servicing done at another non-brand specific garage? I'm guessing you take it to another garage... but I'm also guessing you enjoy the thing regardless of where you can and can't take it... it'd be silly to spend all the time/effort/money you would have spent on doing that and NOT enjoy it right?

Because, in general, it will take more of at least one of those things (time, effort, and money) to make a successful hybrid, perhaps two or all three.

Anyway, I agree with those that say doll companies can't really have an unalterable "intent" for these dolls when one of the main purposes of the hobby is customization. Even with Volks and their fullset limited dolls, they still make versions of those doll which are completely different as one-offs and catalogue models, so even their vision for those dolls changes! And I don't think it's that silly to compare changing the body with changing the faceup, wig, or outfit, because to many "collector" types, having a new face painted on the doll would be JUST as taboo as hacking off one of its legs, and if they keep the doll in a display environment it probably won't need a new faceup like a doll that's been played with and touched. I think that if you're the kind of person who changes your doll's wigs and eyes and clothes to suit your taste you can't really say that someone else changing the body to THEIR taste is some kind of abomination. The end result in both cases is to make the doll into one that you can love even more, by using different pieces than the ones they came with.

 

Honestly, hybrids are real head-ache, especially if you want to do something no one tried before.
That's why I don't like hybrids for myself. Don't see any money saved with this... and see a lot of trouble.
BTW, I'm having two. One is Ego-project head (no body from creator), so I have no choice, really. Other is a Soom Gem - I absolutely love the head, but body is too childish for my character. Can you imagine young warrior with Gem's body? I can't.
Add to this one more issue - if buying a body separately, I pay for shipping twice. hardly a saving.

All in all, I realy hope i won't need more hybrids among my dolls. I don't care if another people's dolls are hybrids or not (well, right now I DO care - if it's hybrids with same companies I'm looking for. ... but that's all. Purely artistic issue, not an ethical one.)

 

I do agree. That's why I would like to hear the opinions of those who dislike hybridization on changing clothes, wigs, eyes and face-ups for dolls, especially limited dolls. I know people say it's a different thing, but I don't see why, if we're talking about the completeness of a doll and maintaining the vision of the artist or company who created the doll. What about custom work? Modifications like gore, elf ears, claws, wings, etc? Wouldn't all these be considered changing the artistic direction that was originally intended of the doll?

For whoever mentioned that it was an insult to the companies to hybrid, as if to say all the company's hard work is not good enough - Wouldn't modifications be saying that all their hard work isn't good enough either? Wouldn't changing a default face-up be saying that it just isn't good enough? And what is wrong with wanting something better, or that better fits your vision of a doll you wanted? I just think these are valid points to address in this debate.

 

That is really, really cool that they do that, but still, I don't think it's a RULE and all companies are different. That's elfdoll's decision and it's really neat, but I don't think all companies should be expected to follow the same rules if it doesn't suit them. Just like my analogy...some people might not mind if you smoke in their house, but I don't want anyone smoking in mine.

 

I guess I'm one of the surprisingly few people who did create hybrids to cheapen the cost. The price of the unidoll body was a bit much for me, and on top of that it didn't match the aesthetic I wanted for the character (have you SEEN how ripped the unidoll torso is ? ) I wasn't about to shell out major buuuuckkss for something I didn't even want. So I got an AOD body instead. Perfect match, and cheaper. (I saved $290!)

I did something similar with my dollzone body and Shiwoo head. In this case I'd actually prefer the MNF body but I seeing as I have both of these already and I'm short on cash.. Why not? The resin matches. I can still replace the body later if I feel like it.

I don't see anything wrong with creating hybrids, for whatever reason you can think of.

 

Even though I don't mind hybrids I hope you don't mind my answer on this. I find that I cannot wipe off a default face up because I know someone worked hard doing it. And I do think what you did say is pretty true, because the minute you change something that means that it wasn't good enough the first time.

 

If you change something it doesn't mean it wasn't "good enough", it just means it's not what you're looking for. Example-I have two DoC's, both with the same body. However, as of late I've been highly considering getting my Kirill a different body, probably a Dollmore Kid body. Is it because his original DoC body isn't good enough? No, because then wouldn't that mean I would want to get rid of my other DoC's body, they are exactly the same, right? I'm just getting him a new one because the one he has now doesn't work for his character, it's too chunky, but that happens to be just what I want for my other boy. It's just a matter of choosing what works.

Sure, sometimes a person will switch from one thing to another because they don't think the original is up to their standards, but it's not always that way.

 

I am *still* howling with laughter over the "hybrids are abomination" remark. Now I am tempted to make and market doll t-shirts with a big Scarlet "H" on them.

 

Yay for hybrids.

There is a Hybrid doll that I love to look at. If any-thing hybrids are an expression of an individual's artistry and aesthetics.

I don't like Volks bodies, in the fact that the SD13 Boy bodies look much too young to be the characters I had in mind, Unless the character that I have in mind is young. (Like Ryo, Sephy and Matty.)
I wouldn't buy the SD16/17 bodies simply because they are much too tall and they are very hard to get. Plus some of the volks' head-sculpt would just look funny on such a buff body.
(I snicker imaging Show's childlike chubby-cheeked face on a lean-muscular SD17 body. It would not be an attractive doll in my eyes.)

I had put a limited volks-head on a different company, the body suited the Character but not the head, so I sold the head.
I am keeping the non-volks Body in hope that I can find the suitable head, it may be a volk's head maybe not.

On the flip side, the collector in me likes fullset dolls with their proper bodies, clothing and accessories, as long as they suit my Tastes. (Young face on a youngish body , ect.)
There are a very few fulldolls that I would get. My aesthetic-taste is different from anyone else's. I would not say; "You shouldn't put (A)companies Head on (B)companies body."
To me that's just rude and very elitist.

Sometimes, Hybrids look better.


On a Off-Topic note: Why isn't that Usagi-person posting a more detailed explanation on her post in the rush of Counter-responses to her post? You guys must have scared her off or something.

 

Very true--some of my dolls are specific characters of mine, and I have a complete picture in my mind of what they should look like. Though many company faceups are beautiful, they don't necessarily look like my characters. Soom does better executed faceups than I do myself, but by doing Liam's faceup myself, Liam looks more like Liam. On the other hand, the default faceup on my UniLimited was perfect for his character, so I have no desire to change it. It's all about getting your doll to look the way you want it--sometimes company faceups suffice, but other times they just don't work with the owner's vision of that doll.