What's the Fascination

Yes! Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I would love a gangly, flat chested body for my girl, with broad enough shoulders to suit her head. So far, I've only really found one that came close. It is a weirdly hard thing to find. And gangly teen bodies are also harder to find than I thought they would be, what with all the teenagers about. Why does everyone have sixpack abs?

Er, on-topic, that's the current ideal, I guess.

 

@iamkathybrown

Do you mind sharing which one came close? I have a couple male heads I'd like as female dolls and making them proportionate is hard!

(I'm also glad there's someone on board with varied body types--curvier, chubbier, ganglier, skinnier, boxier, stockier, taller, shorter, more muscular, and otherwise!)

 

The Granado Female Nuevo body, which I see you already have, so I guess it doesn't suit your purposes. Not even remotely gangly, but at least she has broad shoulders and a natural waist, which not a single other body I found had together. It annoys me that almost every female doll with 12+ shoulders jumps to 65+ and/or has curves out the wazoo. I am also trying to hybrid a head made for a male body and don't want a bobblehead. I wish there were more options.

 

Having made all clothes for my muscular boy myself, I regret a little that I chose the most realistic option I could find. :P It's much easier to make tight fit clothes that actually allow the doll to pose if the doll is skinny.

 

Interesting topic. I would love a curvier bjd also, curves are beautiful... But I have to agree with the person who mentioned natural looking breasts. I really don't like breasts that look like very bad plastic surgery. I don't care how big or small the breasts are, just that they don't look scary but more natural. Some of them look like beach balls.

 

More variety in doll bodies would be nice! If we can have unlimited hair/eye colors and customize doll skin by painting on it, allowing more choices for body types just makes sense. However, as an artist I do staunchly defend people's right to sculpt what they want, so can imagine it happening mostly to meet market demand.

 

Natural vs unnatural breast position and shape is a tough one since doll boobs aren't soft and maleable like real boobs you kind of either have breasts that look good naked but look completely free and unsupported or you have breasts that are meant to look like they're in a bustier or push up bra that look great in clothes but really fake and weird when naked.

 

@iamkathybrown

I love that body! It's my favorite by far (of male and female bodies), but I don't like multiple dolls with the same body (different bodies and sculpts is one of the appeals for me for BJDs over fashion dolls).

I guess I'd really like a girl who's a bit taller, although the female nuevo's proportions would be nice.

 

For me, I'd just like more..."normal"...looking BJDs. I'm 22 years old and a mother. I'm not overweight but not athletic either. I feel like I just don't see much in the BJD hobby that looks womanly and average, I guess. And to me, I wouldn't mind giving up some poses to see more variety in the hobby. ​

 

Gosh! This is why I have yet to find a doll I am reallyyyy fond of. They are all so extra skinny that it just does not look fine at all. Legs are not always arm-wide. But most dolls are like that and I would like to find different ones for a change. I do not mind that they are skinny, but I would prefer if they were more meat-y.

 

This is going to be a bit long and I hope I don’t come across as rude. English is not my first language, so if I’m not clear, please just ask for me to clarify.

Honestly, I think all the reasons usually given is true to an extent. Most trends happen for a variety of reasons.

As someone who does sculpt dolls and am working on a chunky, short-ish, but not too childish ¼ body right now, I can say that there is definitely going to be less mobility in him than there has been in my slimmer dolls. But on the plus side that makes it possible to focus on sturdy joints, rather than super flexible ones and I reason that the people who would like this type of body probably isn’t looking for the acrobat archetype anyway. I know I’m not and I did start the doll mostly because I wanted a doll like that and couldn’t find any that fitted what I want.

I think the joints are a much bigger issue than the amount of materials or weight of the finished doll. At least that’s what I struggle with and I don’t even make an extreme body. (Artist like OakBottom has my greatest respect, I could not do that at my current skill level.)
Making a chubby doll will use more material than a skinny doll of the same height, sure, but there are so many different sizes available out there anyway. It will raise the prize somewhat compared to other dolls with a similar height, though.

To those of you who say that great mobility can be done in bodies with realistic fatrolls etc. Why don’t you try it yourself? And I don’t mean that in a snarky “well, do it yourself, then” sort of way, but honestly. If you can see a good way of doing it that others have failed, then please do! I’d love to see more variations in body types.
Honestly, I think most of us would.

Something I often wondered about is why there are so few modding projects geared towards making a dolls figure fuller. In my many years in the hobby I can only recall one serious attempt at making a doll appear fat and that was done with a rather ambitious fat-suit, if I recall correctly. (It’s many years ago, on Resinality, I think. So any pictures are probably long gone and I don’t remember many details beyond thinking it was a neat idea at the time.)
Considering how often there is a discussion on the overall representation of different body types and the number of projects geared towards making other often requested body types (such as muscular girls, for example) one would think that there would be a bigger interest for, you know, actually making the chubbier dolls. I can’t help but think that just maybe, this is one of those things that we want someone else to do, not do ourselves. We want to feel like everyone has some sort of representation it the doll hobby, but perhaps we don’t want to take the time to actually contribute.

At the end of the day, for there to be a certain doll, skinny, fat, muscular or whatever, there need to be two things: Someone capable and willing to create it, and someone capable and willing to pay for it.

 

I think that this has a lot to do with it.
While I certainly would not say that individual doll-makers are "fatphobic" or purposely discriminating against plus-size people, slender body types are idealized in most of the countries in which BJDs are both produced and popular. And in those countries there is going to be a limited market for dolls which do not represent the cultural ideal.
The market absolutely exists, but is it big enough to prompt doll-makers to invest the time, energy, and money necessary to produce dolls which most likely won't sell as well as their standard, slender models?

I am hopeful, however, that in the future we will begin to see a wider range of body-diversity among BJDs. I like to think that dolls like Iplehouse's HID Woman may be helping to pave the way for this.

 

So many people have made great points about societal prejudice and systematic views contributing to the individual's idea of beauty (which in my opinion, is one of the main reasons so many bids are skinny).

I also like the fact that some people have mentioned eating disorders. As someone recovering from anorexia, bulimia and negative body image, it is so uplifting to see different sized dolls. Similarly, skinny dolls are hard for me because they remind me of what I've struggled with in the not so distant past which I am trying to heal from.

In regards to possibility and resin weight etc. I fully believe that it is entirely possible for a bigger doll to pose well. Think about it, if you had asked someone 100 years ago if they ever thought a laptop would exist they would call you crazy and you'd be locked up in an asylum! Nothing is impossible and a curvy doll with love handles and round bellies are completely within the realm of possibility.

I think the main reason why they haven't become mainstream yet is due to societies standards of what's perfect. Please go watch Sarah's (Pint sized palace) youtube video where she talks about this. (PS she is also making a more natural looking bjd!)

She discusses how people want a bjd who is perfect and society sees very slim people as perfect (especially in Asian countries from which bjds originate) But her idea is that you can be bigger and have a tummy and still look freaking amazing!

As for preferences, there is nothing wrong with simply preferring a skinny doll/body/person/what have you. But the problem arises when you don't even get much of a choice. It's not really a preference when you've only got a couple of body types to choose from! Yes you can prefer slim dolls and no I'm not saying that your preferences would chance if given the opportunity to buy a bigger doll, however it's not much of a choice when you don't have many options.

As for clothing odd sized dolls, take a look at Doll Chateau! Their bodies are extremely out of the norm! And they are extremely skinny! People are still trying to find clothes that fit and the company doesn't sell clothes unless you buy the full sets (as far as I'm aware of, correct me if I'm wrong). With all of the anamorphic bodies out there you'd think that clothing wouldn't be much of an issue because you'd have people making clothes for bigger dolls if large companies sculpted them. People do this with Doll Chateau!

All in all I can't wait to see bigger dolls on the market and I fully intend to support any artists out there (like Sarah and Mokarran) who are making bigger bids. I was to see girls with broad shoulders and small hips, flat butts and large breasts, girls with curves in all the /wrong/ places, boys who have cubby tummies and aren't weight lifters and body weight champions! I want to see normal bodies, big bodies, strange bodies, odd shaped bodies. I want all the shape diversity!

 

It bugs me too. But I recently came across a company that makes gorgeous vinyl dolls and I'm thinking chubby would be a lot easier to make in that than resin.
I have hopes but honestly it's hard to imagine making plus size dolls with anywhere near the same posibility. That would take some creative engineering and aesthetic sacrifices that would never fit with most companies' collections as far as I've seen.
Could work, but I have yet to see much success.

 

Like others have already mentioned, it is harder to sculpt chubby dolls. Not just because of the joint work (although you have to take into account that when the stomach gets bigger, there's less space for the hipjoint to turn at least 90 degrees), but because fat-rolls don't move. So you have a great looking sculpt as long as it is standing, but it looks wonky when posed in a different way, because the skin doesn't move with it. This was one of the issues when I was sculpting Salomé's body. She isn't that fat, but she has skin folds that are fixed in her torso. The more rolls a sculpt has, the more difficult it becomes to make a doll look good in different poses.

There was a mention that these chunkier dolls don't get made because of possible fatphobia in our society. I don't think that's it, though. From what I've learned in the years that I've been creating, the bjd-market is pretty conformative. Sure, people love to see unique, weird and creative dolls, but at the end of the day, 'loving to see' something isn't the same as 'willing to buy'. More of the same simply sells.
All of my less standard dolls - from Salomé and Persephone, both a little chubbier, to Scylla, my naga/mermaid, to Poppedijn, genderless - don't sell well. They get plenty of praise (and ridicule, as is always the case when you try something new) and people cheer every time you come up with something new. When push comes to shove though, the two main reasons for customers to buy new dolls are two things:
1. Do they fit within the current aesthetic of my collection.
2. Can I turn them into one of the characters I created.

The more variables you add to the standard image, the harder it gets for customers to answer these two questions with 'yes'. And they need 'yes' to justify spending hundreds of dollars. Only one factor has a tendency to change this pre-disposition: And that's the interference of a well-known collector. In all cases where stranger dolls have become huge hits, it started with a 'famous' hobbyist buying the doll, dressing it up and showing it to their (large) fanbase. Apparently seeing them own a doll that is new and not like the others is an instigator to buy one yourself.

 

I absolutely believe it is largely in part because of fatphobia. A lot of excuses are just that. Excuses. I'd bet my right kidney that if Doll Chateau came out with an adult-scale chubby or fat doll, it'd sell like hotcakes.

 

Yes, because like I said, Doll Chateau is a popular company, because they had a few well-known hobbyists that bought their stuff. If it were fatphobia, not even a company as popular as them would be able to sell them. Instead, it's mostly a case of a market and the need that comes from there, and how much (as a seller) you're able to deviate from that customer's need to still be able to sell. Like I tried to explain.

 

I don't believe fatphobia is the reason for the lack of chubby dolls. I do believe it's because of the market, as @Lillith @Silk and @SaelaVe have pointed out. If people were lining up to buy the Salomes and the Sharmisthas and the Aoi Tukis and the Oakbottoms, you can bet that the major doll companies would sit up and take notice, and produce their own line of chubby dolls. Companies aren't really interested in "societal norms" and "fatphobia"; they want to make money! My recommendation is that if people really want to see more chubby dolls, they need to vote with their wallets and actually buy the chubby dolls that are already being made.

 

Never mind. I don't like to argue. Simply put, I stand by my opinion.

 

@mokarran @americanseamstress

You both made such great points that I'm just chiming in. I have heard over and over IRL about a desire to see different body types in dolls. Most of the dolls I work with are MH and fashion type dolls and I am constantly happily surprised by the amount of people who are glad there are attempts to make varied body shapes for these dolls. Barbie's new doll sizes just make me (and others) so happy, even if it's the tiniest step. Now that I'm into BJDs I have very specific concepts and I'm daunted by the lack of variety. Not just for body types (I want a very thickset adult male for my next doll) but in facial features. I'm also happy to see skin types also have more variety, because I remember when I never saw BJDs with different skin tones. There's always pushback about calls for variety and they seem reflexive. I'm sure if someone ten years ago had said "Hey, we should make dolls with different and darker skin types" there were people complaining about the type of dyes needed and how hard faceups would be on dark skin. Now it seems ludicrous to object to skin variety. I hope in another few years we'll be saying the same thing about body type variety.