XXX Country Buyers Only

I have sold to international buyers and will continue to do so (I'm in the US). I would even ship to one of the "problem" countries mentioned, if the buyer seems to be someone who won't go ballistic if something goes wrong.

I don't give buyers a choice about shipping with insurance and tracking (if available). It's really for the protection of both of us. The Problem Transactions forum is full of transactions that went bad because somebody didn't want to pay for shipping it properly. I'll make an exception if I know the person well.

I'm not sure why some US shippers think it's a hassle to ship overseas. You only have to fill out one customs form and it takes about 30 seconds. If your local post office has huge lines or ignorant clerks, try finding another branch PO in your vicinity. I go to the one near my workplace for that reason.

BTW the postage estimator at the usps.com website is quite accurate, if you measure the box accurately.

 

I've never had a problem with shipping internationally because of shipping rates, and I was never concerned about packages getting lost... But I know better now
I'm still willing to ship eyes/wigs/clothes out of the country because those tend to be cheaper than the dolls themselves, but it's unlikely that I will ever again ship a doll out of the country. It's not so much an "it's going overseas and might get lost" thing, but rather "there's a change in postal service". If I ship something from America using USPS, then I only have access to USPS' records of that package. As soon as it gets to its destination country, all I know about the package is whether or not it's been delivered because of the minimal tracking service. If it goes missing, USPS can't even attempt to find the package because it's in another country, and that country's postal service is the one keeping track of the package now.
I have no problem with hassling USPS or the International Inquiry Center, even if it takes forever to get a hold of them. But I do have a problem with the USPS and IIC having literally NO information on my international-bound package. To me, it's not that shipping internationally isn't worth the "hassle"; it isn't worth the risk.

Maybe one day I will ship dolls internationally again, but I'll be using FedEx or UPS, and even then I'll worry about the package until I get a PM from the buyer saying the doll has arrived.

 

I've bought from and sold to people outside of the US without hesitation. However, I'd be a little reluctant shipping an actual full doll overseas. Even with it fully insured, I get kind of attached and would hate to think of it being lost forever in some warehouse or something.

 

I can understand preferring to buy/sell to someone within one's own country (or close proximity, etc) because of lower costs, no customs, less shipping time; but I wouldn't refuse to buy/sell to someone outside of my country. As long as you're willing to pay for the shipping fees and accept the possible risk of damage, there shouldn't be problems.

I can see how issues come up when people ask a seller to lie about the value or get angry with them, though.

 

I've skimmed these posts and wonder why things seem so complicated for so many people. I lived in Canada before and bought from Australia, the US, Italy and the UK. I shipped to those locations. No issues. I sold to the US, Australia and the UK. No issues. I live in Japan now. I have shipped to Canada, the US, Australia, Taiwan, Germany and the UK. I have bought or received packages from Taiwan, China, South Korea, the US, Canada, France, Spain, Germany and the UK. I am ~always~ shipping or receiving something internationally. Always. My issues are very few and far between.

I personally don't think the issue is shipping locally or internationally. To be honest, I think it's about dealing with reputable people (or companies) and avoiding the flakes. But, I also think insurance and tracking are important when dealing with big-ticket items, but this is true of items shipped domestically or internationally.

So the US-only thing? I don't get it. The Japan-only thing? I don't get it even if the person only speaks Japanese (on-line translators!). I'm inclined to feel that only ethnocentric individuals afraid of foreigners tend to practice this kind of policy. This is most certainly not the case in all situations, but it's how I feel as someone who has shipped and received international packages in a country where I need to use a foreign language. And, my shipments were not cheap packages.

I realize the above may sound harsh, but I think anyone who does their research will know the best ways to ship outside of their country, in their country and how to best avoid difficult situations. On that same note, however, informed buyers will know the best way to receive packages as well. Buyers and sellers need to work together for a successful transaction and both need to be informed about shipping and receiving. Location has very little to do with it, in my opinion.

 

Even before the advent of eBay I was used to sending mail to, and getting it from, other countries. Since eBay I've done a lot of buying and selling across lines, and I've never, ever had any problem based on that.

I suspect the issue with a lot of people who won't ship out-of-country is simple laziness; they think there may be some sort of hassles involved, and rather than find out more they decide they just can't be bothered. Honestly, though, besides having to check shipping costs and fill out forms it's no more hassle than mailing anything to anywhere--at least I've never found it so.

as for last question: well, if a person refuses to ship outside of her/his country and doesn't live in the USA, then it can't help but influence my decision to buy from them. =) (That's the wonderful thing about Rinkya: it handles Japan-USA shipping for dealers who ordinarily wouldn't sell to the States.) But sure, I would still sell to a person who didn't sell to the USA; it's not my business how they choose to transact things. And maybe if they have some good experiences with American customers they'll change their tune.

 

Sounds harsh? It is harsh. To claim that people who aren't comfortable selling overseas are ethnocentric and afraid of foreigners is pretty over the top. Some people just want to keep things simple, they have buyers in their own country, so that's who they sell to. There's nothing actually wrong with that, and it's not necessarily a negative statement about foreign people.

 

Ouch! It sounds like you are being a bit judgemental.

I think its more fear and worry of something going wrong and the seller being blamed for the problem as has happened to me twice (both buyers got charged customs fees).

Relying on on-line translators is very tricky as things are often lost in translation. Volks has hired a native English speaker as a translator for a reason, to prevent things from getting misinterpreted.

Japanese customers are very picky so you will often find listings on YJA portraying their items as in much worse condition than they really are to prevent complaints from customers. I think this is the real reason why so many are reluctant to ship internationally.

 

I don't have a problem shipping anywhere in the world as long as the buyer is willing to pay the extra shipping and not hold me responsible if things go wrong. I've never sold a doll overseas but I've sold several small items and never had a problem. I did have one issue with UK post that was terribly frustrating, but it was more a customs issue.

 

1. Have you ever refused to sell outside your own country? Outside your continent? Would you?
I've been shipping all kinds of stuff all over the world for over 10 years now, go ebay!

2. What are some reasons people limit potential buyers geographically?
I think it's mainly the paranoia/fear factor, also some people just hate dealing with the petty bureaucracy that is the postal system in any country. Oftentimes the postal clerks are more ignorant about their regulations than the customer! You have to study the web-sites; never ask the clerks if you have the choice. They'll argue and try to obstruct you half the time. I've learned all the right things to say over the years.

3. Do you think buyer education plays a part in the decision? I.e. do people prefer not to ship internationally to avoid angry buyers saying “You’re charging how much for shipping?” What about seller education? Are sellers preferring to stay in-country to avoid educating themselves about international customs requirements? Because they are un-informed or mis-informed about shipping options in their own country?
I always feel like "If I can do it anybody can" because I'm a paranoid lazy wimp myself most of the time. It's been necessary for me to know these things so I learned them. Simple as that! It's not rocket science, really, not if I can do it! XD I understand though, that not everybody wants to/has to deal with it. Look at post count/feedback record. If your buyer/seller's a noob, proceed with extra care.

4. Does a seller’s willingness to ship internationally (if stated) influence your decision to buy from them?
Well if the title of the thread announces: UK ONLY or EU ONLY or whatnot, I don't even look. 'nuff said!

Raven

 

Good lord. The racism/xenophobia card gets overused as it is; now it's being applied to something as simple as a shipment cost-risk analysis? And on DoA, no less, where almost all of the on-topic dolls are made in countries far away from where the majority of our members live and work.

You may be "inclined to feel" that not taking the time to research the process, rules, and options for shipping to every nation in the world is xenophobic. But I am "inclined to feel" that it makes perfect sense for the seller of a $30 doll shirt -- or even a $500 doll -- to decide it's not worth their time to meddle with the unknown or the unclear.

It's not always about race and nation. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

 

I don't ship the human jewelry I make outside of the US, and if I end up making doll jewelry at some point -- which is looking increasingly likely -- it will likely be the same in -many- cases. Why? Well, that's because certain items contain elements that are not always legal to ship to certain parts of the world. Coral is a fantastic example of this. Some components may or may not get a pass -- to certain places, and not to others -- if they are or aren't antique -- good luck proving that. Since the stash of materials I have on hand to work with has been built up since I was 8 or 9 years old, I don't exactly have explicit documentation on where all of it came from -- and even things I buy today, often enough, if I ask where a strand of semiprecious stone came from, I get a shrug from the person selling it to me and a completely vacant look.

In some instances, what you need to know goes well beyond how to fill out a customs form -- well beyond, and it requires extensive documentation. Sure, you can send something anyway and hope it doesn't violate the law in the country you're sending it to or fly under the radar -- but really, that's a chance I'd rather not take. "Hassle" is one thing. "Legal trouble" is substantially different. It's also something that's unwise to overlook.

 

There's already a thread like this, here:
http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303821

But to answer the question:

I used to run an ebay business selling antique vases, tea pots, and other sorts of china. Sometimes the things I'd ship would cost more than $4,800. So I can understand how some people would not want to ship an item that expensive to certain places where they are not sure if they can get it back if something goes wrong, or if the post office in a certain place will lose it, not insure it correctly and such.

For example, I will NEVER ship to Italy because of it's known problems. And as of recently I will no longer be shipping to Korea as I have lost quite a few packages which I then had to pay for out of my pocket because of a language barrier with the Korean buyer after the package was lost because the shipping address was not written correctly.

As an example, this person contacts me in Korean saying something along the lines of "Hi. I think I perhaps indeed will buy out this item. Please boat to here. *Address*" This is how it came out after putting it in a Korean-to-English Translator. 'Please boat to here'? That was supposed to be "Please ship to here", but the translator changed it, and it seems to have changed a few other things they said to not be very understandable like the 'perhaps indeed' and some other things they had said about trying to tell me how to package it, which I didn't understand any of. @_@ It's like "Wrap, wrap, bubblewrap. Blah, blah, tape. Padding, cush, paper. Blah, blah."

But to get back to the story, in the end, the shipping address was something like "Paper flower shop", but in the translator it changed it to "Oragami lily shop". Another thing is that alot of countries have different street addresses and such than we might be used to. The first time I shipped to China I was SOOOO confused! With the regions and all of those things I'd never seen before. @_@ Their addresses are listed so much differently than here in America, I certainly wasn't prepared for such a thing and I can understand how other people wouldn't want to take the risk of getting into shipping to a country they know little to nothing about, if you can't even be sure you're putting the address right on a very expensive item, why should you ship there?

I also hate shipping to England because people always ask me to mark down the price of a package, put it down as a 'gift', etc. Which there is no way in hell I'm marking down a $3,000 vase to $20! What if it breaks in shipping, which is very likely to happen since it's china? Well, either I or the buyer is out alot of money, and there goes my perfect 100% seller feedback because of the cheapness of a buyer. I won't ship to anyone who even requests it because it annoys me so badly. I've considered stopping sending to England at all too because of it.

Ooooh! And another thing! People who don't check their import/custom fees before hand which is clearly written to do before buying an item! I put "Ships to U.S. addresses for $9.95" and a person buys it who lives in Mexico, well, the shipping to Mexico on such a big vase is different since I can't use one of the flat rate U.S. shipping boxes. And when I contact them telling them it's more they're like "OMG! You're trying to rip me off, no way!" And sometimes I don't know how much it is to ship to that country so I need those people to check before hand so I can write it into the invoice. :-/ Annnnd sometimes they lie and say it's less than it is, so when I get to the post office I have to pay like $20 out of my own pocket to ship it.

I understand where these people are coming from 120% when they say they will not ship to certain countries. Even if they don't list a reason, it's ignorant to think there's not one. :-/

So yeah... That's my two-cents on the matter. In short: I have never not sold a doll to a user because I've never sold a doll, but I have used such restrictions on other things I've sold and those are my reasons.

 

There are ~always~ exceptions but after dealing with selling and buying for over a decade I have very little use for people who only deal domestically. There are ways to minimize risk (sell on Ebay, require paypal only payments, require confirmed addresses, require insurance and tracking, obtain feedback from multiple sources, etc.). Eliminating a locale, however, does not eliminate or reduce risk.

Just as sellers eliminate buyers or sellers based on country, I eliminate them based partly on domestic versus international dealings. It's not personal. I know there are exceptions. But, I like to deal with educated buyers and sellers. I feel any buyer/seller of any kind of dolls is fully aware international dealings are how one obtains dolls or outfits or accessories in many cases. Taking measures to ensure buyer responsibility and dealing with reputable buyers who are also educated is my personal approach. In addition, I try to develop networks first. After those are established I sell on smaller forums to people who I'm familiar with in a general sense. I may sell or purchase smaller items on DOA but I would ~never~ deal with higher cost items. This forum is far too large to establish manageable networks. It's also a relatively new mode of doll collecting (the BJD world) which tends to attract younger collectors with less experience with buying and selling.

Sometimes, buying and selling is like avoiding landmines. Different people will take different approaches based on their research and experiences, but also on the product they are selling. With dolls, I find an international marketplace to be an essential part of the hobby. But, that's based on my experiences since I've collected dolls from around the world for over a decade and have discovered ways to reduce risk without boycotting regions.

So, judgemental? Perhaps. Harsh? Perhaps. But, I dealt on Ebay when there was zero buyer protection. Buyer beware. That is similar to marketplace dealings on DOA. I evaluate ~everything~ and assume the worst. It's not personal. It's about reducing risk.

 

Because it is? Depending on what I'm mailing, I always do a CnS and/or a Carrier Pickup for all of my domestic mailing. I do not set foot in a post office unless I'm mailing international. While I'm aware you can do CnS and Customs paperwork online, the service is not offered for many international destinations.

The paperwork is not hard to fill out; it's the easiest part. I have mailed out something to the UK on my lunch break to the nearest post office at work, which is five or so minutes away, and I waited over 45 minutes in line to mail my stuff and was cutting it close to not be late. Factor in that my lunch break is only one hour and that I work 8-5 where all post offices near my apartment are closed on the weekends, time is an incredibly huge consideration I take when selling.*

For someone who works full time with inflexible hours and relies on CnS to print out postage, shipping internationally becomes a hassle very quickly because of the time involved.

*I have no problem when it comes to going to the post office when it comes to mailing dolls since the gain outweighs the time lost/risk (and will plan my weekends in suburbia to mail out the doll on the weekend), but when someone wants eyelashes, a pair of socks for $5, etc., an hour in line at the post office to mail a $3-$5 item just isn't worth it to me.

 

Nothing can eliminate all risk, but eliminating certain locals can remove some specific issues--countries where packages are often known to go missing, language problems etc. So while some risk may still be there, or sellers need to take other precautions whether selling here or on ebay, by only selling domestically they're making it that much easier for themselves.

It sounds like you do a lot of selling, but you need to keep in mind that not everybody does a large volume of sales. Sometimes it's just the occasional doll or outfit. When someone's selling every once in awhile, it makes sense that they're not going to want to delve into international shipping--I think it's expecting an awful lot of people for everyone to make everything available to buyers everywhere. You seem to have a very specific and thought out way of doing things that works very well for you, but I don't think that's the sort of thing you're going to find when it comes to people who sell more casually--it's outside the scope of a lot of hobbyists.

 

Judgmental, who can say. Harsh? No. Aware of only self-interest, I'd say, to the extent that it becomes an extreme case of short-sightedness.

Namely, you claim an interest in reducing risk -- the very same reasoning people have given here as a reason to avoid shipping certain products internationally, be it because of fragility or because of a truly staggering amount of import/export laws, restrictions, and documentation that are required for the international trade of certain goods.

There are people who make a very good living at tracking, identifying, and translating these regulations alone -- there is a reason for that. If you are selling an item that is the same every time, or composed of the same materials, it is considerably different; you can find out once, and it's a (far more) permanent reference point (until the laws change again).

If the composition of goods changes drastically from one time to the next, examining what could be the trade limitations on a $15 item will add to its price considerably if it is composed of, as mentioned above, coral or certain semiprecious stones or certain metals which may or may not be permitted to be used in goods considered 'children's toys' or of an edible size by toddlers has to be researched at length.

That time has value and thus a cost; the research costs of a legal consultation on materials also has a cost involved. Is that a cost you are willing to assume as a buyer as a real cost of doing business and thus additive to the price of an item in certain cases? If you are, I don't really have a problem with this in any fashion. If you aren't, on the other hand...

 

This is an interesting spin on it. The only problem is that there's not necessarily a correlation between "education" and a seller's given shipping preferences for a particular item.

Example: I have lived overseas, know the shipping regulations quite well for most European nations and a number of Asian ones, do offer international shipping on most items, but have been known to limit my shipping zones for particular items due to abilities at a given moment. Click-n-Ship from a printer is a hell of a lot easier than going to the post office to fill out physical forms when one is recovering from an operation!

You do acknowledge there are exceptions to your rule. I have to assume the above would count as such an exception. But what bothers me is that you don't mention how you are capable of discerning those exceptions. Unless I had given a detailed explanation in my sales post about why I could not ship internationally, how in the world would you be able to judge if my decision was due to lack of education? Do you attempt to differentiate at all? Or do you just operate on the assumption that any seller who at any time states a preference not to ship internationally is ignorant and inexperienced?

Earlier you stated that you believed those who weren't willing to ship internationally were xenophobes at heart. Now it's that they're ignorant of the procedures. I'm curious to know which is worse, in your eyes -- making broad decisions about international shipping destinations, or making specific judgments about the sellers as individuals, based on those decisions? I know where I stand.

 

Did I really say that or is that your personal take on it? I believe I said something to the effect of I "tend to believe" and certainly wouldn't make a black and white generalization. That aside, pointing fingers and assuming the worst about me is no different than me assuming the worst about people who immediately blacklist buyers/sellers who only deal regionally. The difference is that my judgement isn't personal but rather a kind of warning signal of sellers or buyers I prefer to avoid.

People are free to sell to who they want to where they want to. But, based on my personal experiences (and those experiences have a proven track record) I will limit my business transactions based on my preferences of those who ship internationally or, at the very least, to many regions around the world. Again, it's not personal but I see shipping only locally as ignorance - whatever the reason - rather than based on facts. Make of that what you will.

I should probably clarify, however, that my "afraid of foreigners" perspective is based in Japan on ~some~ sellers since this is certainly not the case all the time. Some people are very nice and wonderful people, please don't get me wrong. With US sellers I do think it is more geographic (i.e. lack of accessibility to the post office) but this is certainly not always the case either. At the end of the day, I choose who I do business with and feel personal qualities far outweigh region. I choose to see the "Japan only" or "US only" sales terms as warning signs in many cases if I am not familiar with the seller on a personal level. Personally, I see doll collecting as an international hobby and find it truly baffling that it should be limited to any one region on any level so choose not to deal with people who only deal within a local geographic region. But this is certainly not a black and white perspective nor is it absolute. I do buy at Dolpa's and Sato in person, but in-person sales are a luxury for me after dealing on-line for so many years. That said, I would happily buy things for friends at no extra cost to them to better promote the hobby.

You are free to feel however you wish. But so am I. Your judgements of me seem to be personal, but I will assume the best of you as a person since I don't feel a point of contention is worth holding over anyone whether I agree or disagree. Respond as you wish, but I think I've said all I can on the subject.

On that note, Taco, you are right. The hobbyists may not be aware of a few things but, to be blunt, I don't want to deal with stupid people. I am a doll collector and with enough money invested in this hobby to take it very seriously. I'm not an elitist by any means, and I happily try to help people, but when money is changing hands it is a business transaction. There needs to be a certain level of commitment and awareness on both sides no matter what is being sold and no matter on what scale, in my opinion.

And surreality, I'm trying to understand the point of the legal argument you stated, but I'm not seeing how it applies to dolls and doll-related items. To limit to a region based on not knowing if materials are legal to ship overseas is quite a different matter and I am aware that Australia is very particular about what they let into the country. If someone were to say "This doll contains XXX so I can only ship in the XXX" this is far different than saying "I will only sell my outfits in XXX" with no justification. There are few importing restrictions on cotton. As I have said, there are always exceptions, but I do not see "risk" changing for many purchases if one chooses to ship overseas with tracking, insurance and seller/buyer protection through Ebay. A person who wants to defraud someone can do it from anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter what country they are from.

 

Its easier to ship in USA. I get more options (Delivery conf, insurance is cheaper), I don't have to fill out extra forms, and if I am off in my shipping estimate it's not tons of money. I still have to go to the post office to ship First Class International instead of printing postage from online. If you're new to selling, shipping international seems an added burden and expensive.

However, they are limiting their market by doing that. I feel its rather mean and have been doing it forever, so will ship anywhere. I am apprehensive to ship to Italy, Germany, Mexico, and 3rd world countries, but have done it with warnings and may require insurance/tracking. If more bad things happen with those countries I may consider stopping altogether due to their customs and/or things getting lost. For example, Germany will open the parcels and look up prices online (even on used items or "gifts"), and charge exorbant fees. I also beleive those with sketchy customs keep the parcels with no warning, then after that who knows what the postal system will do (e.g., latin american countries)