Why is there such a bad reputation?

I've heard some bad opinions about DoA, too, but they were mostly from recasts owners, so it just doesn't matter.

But now you made me worried. DC Carol is off-topic because it's a humanoid bird? So my mouse boy will be off-topic as well?

 

@Skolopendrokot your boy is ok and on topic. DC Carol is only on the off topic list due to lack of wrist joint. But she has wings, so it’s confusing.

 

Most of what I've seen has amounted to:

1. People broke rules, got banned, and are salty about it
2. People just don't like the fact that the forum has a lot of rules
3. People have dolls that aren't on topic on the forum, and that must mean we are elitists that look down on their dolls
4. People get an account just to get MP access and then get mad when posts get deleted and their post count lowers

 

@Ethra_VII I wish I could upvote your post 1 million times...

 

Before I joined DoA last year, I didn’t hear about negative reputation.
It was more like I had respect and was a bit afraid ‘I might not be worthy’ because I absolutely didn’t have any physical experience with dolls (next to my virtual research ‘experience’).

The forum is very well-structured. Yes, the rules are tight, but it helps keeping things on-topic.

The community is super kind and talkative making DoA a beautiful place to share knowledge.

Yes, the mods are very careful, which I really truly embrace looking at the very positive behavior within he forums and the quality in the 2nd hand market (and also keeping it clean).

There’s nothing elitist here. Indeed it’s more like there are plenty of people sharing their very basic needs and situations everybody of us experiences in this hobby, like ‘help - I never restrung a doll’.

What I disliked first on DoA, was that posting actual photos is so difficult on here. With all the rules (no water sign which I still truly dislike, tbh, and that DoA does not provide photo hosting, etc.) it’s kind of difficult to really share your doll in a forum if you’re simply not used to do it the way DoA needs it.

 

What I do like:

• Good organization
• Clear Rules
• Friendly community
• Lots of rules to gain Marketplace access for security

What I don't like:

• Lots of rules that might alienate a variety of legitimate BJD owners
• Lots of Rules to gain marketplace access that might discourage me from being more active (The marketplace was a benefit of joining DoA in the first place, and I don't see any issue with that sentiment. However I do understand that it is a procedure to preserve marketplace security.)
• Arbitrary Banning (In the case of Mirodoll, it is really difficult to ban this company without banning other companies that have similar sculpts to other companies. To what extent do we draw the line between borrowing style and outright copying? While I understand that this question is difficult to answer, the decision to ban Mirodoll seems arbitrary, and a lot of people own Mirodoll sculpts on this site as well.)

Of course, the pros of a friendly community restricted to legitimate BJD discussion is greatly appreciated and greatly outweighs the cons. However, I kind of understand why there would exist a negative reputation among some individuals who feel alienated by DoA. Yet I am still on this site and care deeply about its well-being.

 

DoA is so big, and has been around so long, that these urban legends accumulate-- like Disney or something. Also, no one is going to get on social media and admit they were banned for behaving like a jacka**. Much better to paint a scenario where they're innocent victims.

 

I love DOA for its clear rules, zero-tolerance policy on art theft and horses--t, and determination to stay focused on dolls, not drama. Of course, to some people, these same qualities mean that DOA is a haven for Elitist Meanies. Plus, like Alewife said, people who are banned or feel slighted in some way rarely give a balanced account of what happened. It's almost always one-sided and full of anger and self-pity.

 

They didn't ban all of Mirodoll, though. People can still discuss non-banned sculpts that they already own. There is a list in the announcement. Did you report these other companies that you feel copied sculpts from others in "Ask the Mods" so that the mods can review them? Or do you expect the mods to automatically know about them?

I think that's another place where the bad reputation comes from: people go on social media and exaggerate what happens here. I was a mod in college (not here), and it is a thankless job. Many people treat you like they think you should bend over backwards to make them personally happy -- as if they believe mods are paid employees or elected officials -- when in reality you are doing this job for free, volunteering your own leisure time in order to help a community you love. No matter what you do, or what decisions you make, you will piss off somebody, and those people will take to social media to let the world know how unfair you are, how you show favoritism, how people like you are a drain on the hobby, etc. It's easy for these complainers to expect perfection from their volunteers when they've probably never been in their shoes.**

**I'm not intending to lump StarFennec in with this paragraph/rant. I don't know them or their social media behavior.

Mini rant over.

Something I have noticed on DoA that might scare off newbies is that if someone posts something in the wrong forum, often several people will reply to let them know that their thread will probably be removed. I've never seen anyone be mean about it, but to a newbie who has likely read about all the "arbitrary bannings" on social media, it probably comes across as somewhat harsh, or as an indicator that they are about to get in trouble themselves.

 

Okay! Thank you for the response! I didn’t realize that DoA didn’t ban all of Mirodoll. I realize that I need to check my sources before I say things. And once you learn the rules this really is a nice forum to post on. I also appreciate the mods and find it easy to forget that they are in fact volunteers and appreciate their work as well.

 

When I first joined DoA in 2011 I didn't hear anything negative, just that it was this amazing place to get info on dolls and of course the marketplace! But in recent years I've heard an increasing amount of negative comments directed at DoA on Facebook and other pages but have never understood the negativity myself. Having respect for the rules and other DoA members is the key to having a great experience here imo.

 

Being totally new here I agree the forum itself is a bit intimidating, but on the other hand I find it reassuring to know that moderators are keeping a close eye on things. People have been super welcoming, and the quality of the information I found is wonderful.
Regarding the marketplace, I am looking forward to accessing it.
But somehow, I'd rather wait a bit and end up in a secure environment. Especially since bjd dolls shopping isn't exactly cheap...best if you can trust your buyers

 

I think the reasons people bad-mouth DoA have been well covered here but what gets me is that they voice these complaints mostly on tumblr confession blogs! I mean, if your feelings can get hurt over having a post moved or ignored, why are you frequenting blogs where you can get piled on with every vulgarity, profanity, accusation and threat?

And I've seen gleeful statements that DoA is dying. First of all, not true. But even if it were, why would that give anyone satisfaction? No one is forcing you to come here! No one here is singling you out to pick on. Really!

But what I truly don't like is that these complaints tend to discourage new hobbyists from joining DoA. Such a shame, they simply don't know what they're missing.

 

I think this is a big part of it. Younger hobbyists in particular have grown up with social media everywhere, while older hobbyists haven't had their formative years as saturated with it, so they don't feel as much of the pressure for "likes" and "followers," and basically doing whatever they want regardless of structure to get those "likes" and "followers." They're accustomed to posts that meander and drift around without much structure or substance, and to rapid-fire bursts of activity on new things that then sink to the depths never to be seen again, and the rigidity and pace of a forum are hard for them to understand. (For those of us who've been on the internet a bit longer, a forum is a pretty straightforward thing, but I've seen a LOT of complaints where people just don't understand how it's supposed to work and therefore it's bad and no one should like it. Sorry, kids, but Facebook and Instagram are not good platforms for a resource like this.)

Social media is not very social, it's more of a "me me me" system. DoA is about the information, not the individual, so it's unfamiliar and weird to them, and when they've grown up in a "me me me" system, moving to a "we" system is uncomfortable for them. So they get mad because they don't like the structure, they get mad because they only got two likes instead of ten, they get mad because they jumped into the middle of a discussion and got overlooked, they get mad because they broke a rule because they didn't bother to read it or didn't think it should apply to them, they get mad because their post count went down for one reason or another, basically they get mad because the kind of "sharing" they're used to isn't the kind of "sharing" Mr. Rogers taught us, and they don't understand that a fair system doesn't mean a system that revolves entirely around them.

 

I held off on joining here for it's reputation. I remember hearing back when I was a teenager that it was "exclusive" and "invite only", and that it was full of nothing but elitist gatekeepers because of that. 10 years ago when I was hearing that it may have been the case, but from what I've seen lurking around so far that certainly isn't the case. Everyone seems so polite, and I haven't seen an ounce of drama. Of course, those that are complaining are likely the ones to have been banned for just that. This place is an excellent resource and I wish I had looked into joining sooner, honestly. Anyone who has a problem with how DOA works is missing out.

 

@phanuel I see those "DoA is dying, good riddance" statements popping up more often and I'm so confused why many think that. There's tons of new content and threads being added all the time and there's discussions threads that remain active even after many years. I always find something new (and even old content) to grab my attention and inspire me. This place certainly isn't dying from my perspective!

@vicemage Ugh, you nailed it on the head! Often I find the atmosphere here more conductive to my enjoyment of the hobby because it's less focused on the "me, me, me" aspect. Sometimes I need a break from that aspect on other social media sites.

@AoDaiLi Because of DoA's rules for the marketplace (and these forums in general) I feel like I can navigate the marketplace with confidence. And you're right, it's best when you can trust your buyers and those you are buying from!!

 

I honestly don't even do a lot of social media (seriously, my Facebook is mostly me sharing Welcome to Night Vale's statuses and funny cat videos), because what was most common on the internet when I was starting out was structured much more like this. It was more "Hey, we have this shared interest in common, let's discuss and share thoughts and ideas on it that we can all enjoy," and less "Hey look at me! Look at this thing I did! Look look look look looooook!" I'm very accustomed to this format, and would rather this over the social media based options. If it's not what the younger hobbyists enjoy because it's weird and alien to them, so be it, but they really need to learn that "different" is not automatically "bad and should be destroyed." Homogeny isn't a benefit to anyone, honestly, and it's something that hopefully they'll learn as they mature, but it's frustrating (and a bit distressing) to see how quickly so many of them leap from "I don't like it" to "this is the spawn of Satan and should be wiped from existence and anyone who disagrees with me should be obliterated too."

 

@Anante , @vicemage

True, and disturbing beyond the doll hobby. Youth shouldn't be an excuse unless they're toddlers because this is toddler-like behavior, spewing their ids all over the internet without having to suffer the slap-down consequences they'd receive irl. Let's just hope this narcissism stays on the internet and doesn't spill over, but I have my doubts.

It's funny, I submitted a "confession" on this subject awhile ago to one of the blogs and it just now popped up.

 

I started my bjd hobby on DoA, so I never actually heard all the badmouthing until long after. I've never gotten it--- the rules everyone complains about are NOT hard to follow. Reading this thread has helped me understand what the problem might be, though. I really think @vicemage is spot on. Forums aren't designed to give individual users a platform to showcase themselves, so if that's the experience a person is expecting to have here, they're bound to be frustrated. Personally, I appreciate the on-topic nature of a forum and the organization. It's the very reason why Den of Angels has been my go-to for info since I started the hobby. The "me! me! Look at me!" of social media is exhausting to take in, and equally exhausting to do--- I don't enjoy constantly having to come up with something to post and show off and having to put myself on display.